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The Insignificance of Humanity
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Tumah
Veteran Member
1robin
Christian/Baptist
This is a false syllogism. Humanities' importance has nothing to do with physical size or temporal duration. Even if the only entity to have ever existed was a single cell, if God decreed it to be so that cell would be objectively important to the exact degree God endowed it with.OR looked at another way.
The point being, god's claimed concern for an extremely, EXTREMELY minor, and extremely, EXTREMELY short lived creature in his extremely, EXTREMELY vast universe just doesn't seem at all rational.
Does it to you?
Moreover, according to Genesis 1:4, none of these1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe existed until the fourth day, after the Earth had been created, when "God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars."
And a billion trillion of them no less! Why?
Sound reasonable to you?
In my opinion, our EXTREMELY insignificant place in the universe simply doesn't merit the attention the Bible claims god gives it.
.
The Bible does not state that this planet is the only one with life on it. The Bible given to us only concerns itself with life on this Earth because the life on this planet was who biblical revelation is about.
I do not think it was intentional but your argument is a bit of a straw man.
BTW, if you want to do so please respond to our other debate about semantics.
The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
If I were an animator and I designed a character, then the bigger of an environment I would have for that character, the more significant this character would be to me. If I were to design a closet spaced area for a character, then this character would not be that important to me. But if I created an entire world or universe for that character, then this character would be something quite important to me.
Skwim
Veteran Member
What syllogism? I never presented any syllogism---might want to look up the word on Google. I presented some facts, asked three questions, quoted the Bible, and offered a couple of opinions, and that's it.
Which may be none at all.
In any case, I take it you believe humanity is significant because god created it. Hardly a compelling argument for those of us who aren't members of the choir, but fair enough.
What argument? At most, all I did was offer two opinions. One being,
"God's claimed concern for an extremely, EXTREMELY minor, and extremely, EXTREMELY short lived creature in his extremely, EXTREMELY vast universe just doesn't seem at all rational."
and the other,
"Our EXTREMELY insignificant place in the universe simply doesn't merit the attention the Bible claims god gives it."
.
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Rajina
Member
OR looked at another way.
The point being, god's claimed concern for an extremely, EXTREMELY minor, and extremely, EXTREMELY short lived creature in his extremely, EXTREMELY vast universe just doesn't seem at all rational.
Does it to you?
Moreover, according to Genesis 1:4, none of these1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe existed until the fourth day, after the Earth had been created, when "God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars."
And a billion trillion of them no less! Why?
Sound reasonable to you?
In my opinion, our EXTREMELY insignificant place in the universe simply doesn't merit the attention the Bible claims god gives it.
.
"Have they not looked at the heaven above them - how We structured it and adorned it and [how] it has no rifts?" - Qur'an 50:6
God created so much for us to think and understand. Each and every creation of God, is an evidence for His existence.
Such a vast universe with these huge amount of stars, they all are moving in their own paths, obeying laws of physics and chemistry. Who created these laws and who maintains it? Did it all just come from nothing?
We, the mini mini creatures couldn't even explore even a small part of his creations. Then how will we get a scientific proof for the existence of the Creator who is beyond His creations?
Which is, 99.99999999999999..etc.% invisible.
You make the assumption that the Universe is finite. What led you to that conclusion?
Ciao
- viole
OR looked at another way.
The point being, god's claimed concern for an extremely, EXTREMELY minor, and extremely, EXTREMELY short lived creature in his extremely, EXTREMELY vast universe just doesn't seem at all rational.
Does it to you?
Moreover, according to Genesis 1:4, none of these1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe existed until the fourth day, after the Earth had been created, when "God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars."
And a billion trillion of them no less! Why?
Sound reasonable to you?
In my opinion, our EXTREMELY insignificant place in the universe simply doesn't merit the attention the Bible claims god gives it.
.
You forgot to compare Israel with the surface of the rest of the earth. That should give you an additional few orders of magnitude to add to the insignificance of Gods elected ones, when compared with the rest the Universe.
You can replace Israel with any other area whose inhabitants believe to be the chosen ones.
Ciao
- viole
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OR looked at another way.
The point being, god's claimed concern for an extremely, EXTREMELY minor, and extremely, EXTREMELY short lived creature in his extremely, EXTREMELY vast universe just doesn't seem at all rational.
Does it to you?
Moreover, according to Genesis 1:4, none of these1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe existed until the fourth day, after the Earth had been created, when "God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars."
And a billion trillion of them no less! Why?
Sound reasonable to you?
In my opinion, our EXTREMELY insignificant place in the universe simply doesn't merit the attention the Bible claims god gives it.
.
If God considers us His children then that makes humanity very important and significant in the universe.
It's like this. Imagine that for instance among 7 billion population on earth one has a lover. Although that loved one is insignificant compared to the 7 billion, in the eyes of the lover, that loved one is more significant than the entire 7 billion. The lover sees not the 7 billion only his lover.
So too with humanity. There may be billions and trillions of planets and universes but God chose us to be His lover so to Him we matter more than the entire trillions of universes and stars. and all creation. Its all relative my dear Watson!!
“O Son of the Wondrous Vision!
I have breathed within thee a breath of My own Spirit, that thou mayest be My lover.
“O Son of Man!
I loved thy creation, hence I created thee.
Bahá'u'lláh. “The Hidden Words.”
Skwim
Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yeah, isn't that amazing? The extra 99.99999999999999...etc.% that He created because there would one day be a time when we could see further than our starry sky. At that time, we'd be able to appreciate even more, how great it is.
Whether the universe extends infinitely in space or time, it would still remain a finite creation in the respect that - like numbers - that infinity remains restricted to certain qualities or dimensions of the subject.
Although I do doubt that the universe is infinite as well.
We better hurry up. In a few billions years, we will be able to see only our galaxy at the current expansion rate.
If the universe has infinite extension, then it is irrelevant what the subject thinks. After all, subjects tend to have a finite number if neurons. And by the way, mathematics handles actual infinities as well. See Cantor.
So, do you think you fall down somewhere else if you were able to reach its limits and cross them?
Ciao
- viole
Humanity is so corrupt God put that much distance between us and Him. And he's still adding on.OR looked at another way.
The point being, god's claimed concern for an extremely, EXTREMELY minor, and extremely, EXTREMELY short lived creature in his extremely, EXTREMELY vast universe just doesn't seem at all rational.
Does it to you?
Moreover, according to Genesis 1:4, none of these1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe existed until the fourth day, after the Earth had been created, when "God made the two large lights. He made the larger light to rule during the day and the smaller light to rule during the night. He also made the stars."
And a billion trillion of them no less! Why?
Sound reasonable to you?
In my opinion, our EXTREMELY insignificant place in the universe simply doesn't merit the attention the Bible claims god gives it.
.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Its ok! We already know about it.
I'm not sure what you mean here about the subject. I was referring to time, space or numbers extending infinitely.
I'm not sure how that's related.
I think I'd fall down onto the back of a turtle.
I'm not mathematician or physicist. But I can imagine that space may warp at the edges of a brane making it impossible to get out. Maybe space is sphere shaped. I'll let you know when it becomes relevant.
This is entirely possible. It could be that by flying straight in a direction, you go back to where you were. Whether your left and right shoe you left behind will still fit with your left and right foot, is to be seen. Maybe the Universe is just a huge Moebius stripe, who knows.
That would be a closed Universe, ergo a Universe with a geometry such that a huge triangle would have less than pi as the sum of its internal angles. Like on the surface of the earth. An ant on earth would also go back to where it was if it walked straight.
Observations seem to corroborate the hypothesys that we live in a large scale flat Universe. Ergo one on the very fine edge between being finite and infinite, while being still infinite. And, as such, a Universe whose total energy is zero. I personally believe that this is the only geometry it can have, on account of energy conservation. I think most physicists would agree.
How a Universe, which allegedely "started" very small can be infinite, is left as a simple exercise to the reader.
Ciao
- viole
Skwim
Veteran Member
On the other side of the mirror, standing on the sea of glass.So where is god?
.
Is it quantity of a substance that makes something significant?