Shad
Veteran Member
They do not share the same view of Christ so the point is moot.
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Searching for proof of God/Islam - Tell me why I'm wrong
- Thread starter Arkannine21
- Start date
They do not share the same view of Christ so the point is moot.
Shad
Veteran Member
Your own argument fails for the same reason you put forward for the Quran. You have zero contemporary sources for the NT. You have no contemporary sources for Moses nor even a complete manuscript before the exile. There is one scrap of a manuscript dating to 650 BCE which contains 8 variants of verses. That is all. So if using your argument you have no evidence of David, Moses, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, etc, etc. You should dismiss the Bible with far more ease than you do the Quran. Alas you don't.
The Quran as complied in a serious manner and maintain to a far greater and near contemporary level than any of the Bibles. It was also maintain better give far large near contemporary manuscripts, or parts of. So this argument fails for you.
You are parroting dogma not scholarship,
Both the Bible and Quran do share the same view that Jesus was a Prophet sent by God.
Prophet, Christ as Deuteronomy 18:18 Matthew 21:11 Matthew 21:46 Mark 6:15 Luke 7:16 Luke 13:33 Luke 24:19 John 4:19 John 6:14 John 7:40 John 9:17 Acts 3:22 (Thompson's Chain reference Bible)
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Shad
Veteran Member
This is not the interpretation from a Christian point of view so your point is still moot. It seems like you know nothing about even the basics of Christianity.
But your interpretation is correct because you believe it.. Hilarious double standard.
Which is still based on your interpretation with is not the Christian interpretation. Your views do not trump others views because you believe they do.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28:19
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1:1-18
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10:38
Try reading the Bible next time.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
To me all religious ideas are wrong, because they are only ideas, there is no proof, the only true proof is from within each one of us, and you cannot make a religion out of that.
The Bible is the true Word of God. There is no conflict between Christ and Muhammad. They both came from God, taught about God and brought Teachings and a Holy Book to guide humanity.
The world needs unity, love and peace and we all need to learn to get along together much better.
We should be talking about our common humanity.
Any religion that teaches that other religions are false is no religion.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes I can certainly agree with that.
un the contrary, all moslims believe other previous prophet who are sent from God.
islam is compleation and perfection of other previous religions not against them.
islam is the compleated version of other religions.
in the holy Quran we have many verses about history of prophets, we respect them have faith in prophecy of them, and even if one moslim person does not accept one of other prophet he-she is not a believer!
we have many verses in the holy quran about prophet jesus and his honorable mother mary peace be upon them,
and even God introduced mary as a great exempler for all faithfuls.
i invite you to study my post prophet jesus and his honorable mother mary peace be upon him in this website.
thanks for your attention.
God bless you all.
hi.Hello all,
I'm in the process of looking at different belief systems, and I've tried to summarise why I am beginning to settle on belief in God & specifically Islam.
Getting some challenge from your sharp debating minds would be immensely helpful to highlight any shortcomings in my current thinking.
Context: The Qur’an is a book which is claimed to be from God, written mostly in the first person, and said to have been revealed between 609-632 AD orally via Muhammed. It is claimed that Muhammed had direct interactions with Gabriel throughout the revelation of the Qur’an.
Basic structure:
If the following conditions are true:
Then: There is almost certainly a genuine supernatural nature to the core text of Islam that is available to us today
- Muhammed brought the Qur’an
- The Qur’an has not materially changed since the point of its arrival
- Muhammed genuinely believed that the Qur’an was from God
- The Qur’an, along with its effects on people, are beyond what can realistically be expected from the products of someone with mental illness
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1. Muhammed brought the Qur’an
- There are many thousands of records called ‘Hadith’ that make reference to the Prophet Muhammed & his life, including Qur’anic revelation
- There are some corroborating records in contemporary times from non-Arab sources that mention Muhammed & the Qur’an
- There are no contemporary sources that even suggest Mohammed didn’t exist or didn’t bring the Qur’an
2. The Qur’an has not materially changed since the point of its arrival
- The earliest manuscript is the Birmingham manuscript, held in the University of Birmingham (http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2015/07/quran-manuscript-22-07-15.aspx) – this is carbon dated between 568 AD & 645 AD
- There are other very old manuscripts, e.g. Sana’a manuscript from before 671 AD
- None of the contents of these manuscripts varies in a material way from the modern Qur’an
- The official Islamic story of the Qur’an’s compilation is that it was revealed orally to Muhammed between 609-632 AD. It was then compiled into a book soon after his death, before which it was transmitted orally. The compilation into today’s standard edition took place in ~650 AD.
- Given the nomadic Arab oral tradition, it is very believable that the Qur’an would have remained mostly unchanged in the max. 10-20 year period before it was written down. To illustrate, even today, some nomadic Arabs are able to recite hours of poetry by heart
3. Muhammed genuinely believed that the Qur’an was from God
The potential motivations for Muhammed to recite the Qur’an to his people can be summarised in this tree:
An analysis of the factors mentioned in the above tree is as follows:
4. The Qur’an, along with its effects on people, are beyond what can realistically be expected from the products of someone with mental illness
- Schizophrenic patients or those with schizophrenic traits will often display ‘Knight’s move thinking’ – switching between ideas with little or no connection without warning. Those with schizotypal personality disorder also often exhibit unusual speech structures & unnatural shifts between ideas. On the other hand, the Qur’an is able to deliver coherent stories & makes a clear transition from one idea to the next
- Manic disorder/bipolar disorder is often characterised by hyperexcitable speech & flight of ideas. As explained above, the Qur’an is able to hold an idea/story & explain it, and there is a clear transition from one idea to the next. Furthermore, the tone of the Qur’an is consistent throughout, which indicates an absence of bipolar wild mood swings in the compilation of the Qur’an
- Muhammed claimed to interact directly with Gabriel when receiving Qur’anic revelations, including visual, auditory & physical contact. Schizophrenic hallucinations are usually only auditory, and usually have a negative connotation. In general, hallucinations are nowhere near as well developed as the experiences which Muhammed is claimed to have gone through.
- Epileptic hallucinations are even less likely to cause the combination of visual, auditory & physical contact with a person, especially not on a recurrent basis
- Furthermore, the Arabic Qur’an recitation demonstrates signs of having been written by someone with considerable intelligence. It has a certain rhythm which many find appealing, and a sense of authority which many find makes it easy to believe. These features are not easy to imitate. Most mental illnesses, including epilepsy, are correlated with a lower IQ, which makes it less likely that the Qur’an could have been produced by someone with a mental disorder
i can help you in this regard and find books to send you for more study.
i read your post, many sentences which i could not understand, because my english is not complete excuse me.
but many of your sentences which are understood are true. dont worry.
God helps the people who strive in his path and guide them to his special ways!
prophet Mohammad does not bring the holy quran, recieved it via revelation of God and convate them to others without any distortion.
God confirms and guaranteed maintaining his holy book for guidance of all mankind.
in chapter 15, verse 9, the all merciful God says:
Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian
In what sense do you mean 'superior' here?
We are all equal. Not to condescend or despise other people but to consider all as equals.
What about all religions?
The same. All religionists are human beings so they should be treated with equal respect.
Okay, but I'm not talking about religionists, I'm talking about religions. Are all religions equal/deserving of equal respect in your eyes?
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so.
How in the world can both the Bible and the Qur'an be "perfect" when the Qur'an accuses the Gospels of being lies. Christianity teaches that Christ is the Savior of the world, the King of Heaven, God incarnate, that He was crucified, etc. Islam teaches none of those things and accuses Christians of being liars and changing the Gospels. You cannot believe in both the Bible and the Qur'an at the same time, unless you pick and choose.
The Bible says nothing about Muhammad or Baha'u'llah. People who claim that are misinterpreting verses by taking them out of their obvious context in the scriptures while also ignoring their theological context. The verses from Revelation you quoted are speaking of the Eschaton - the End of Time and the remaking of Heaven and Earth. None of that has anything to do with some new prophet or messenger coming.
Also, I have a question. Why do I see Baha'is capitalizing the pronouns of Christ, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah? Speaking as a Christian, we only capitalize pronouns when referring to God.
What are you defining as religion? Things like terrorism and satanism are not seen as religion by us so let's be clear about the definition of religion first.
It's only true for me. It is what I have found to be true from my own research and investigation. Others may believe something totally different. Each to his own.
It's all a matter of how one interprets these Holy Books. I see absolutely no conflict at all between them.
We capitalise them because they are God's Messengers or Prophets as distinct from just ordinary people. They are very precious.
About end time. Again it is a matter of how one interprets th scriptures. We understand clearly Baha'u'llah was prophesied in the Bible as well as Muhammad. Our interpretation comes from Baha'u'llah the Spirit of Truth Christ foretold Who would guide men into all truth.