Inherited sin: yes or no

viole said:

I beg to differ. The more comfortable an idea is, the least likely it is to be true.

If you were right, then my belief to win 10 millions at the next lottery, would be true.

Ciao

- viole

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Well I agree...like I said..just cause someone feels comfortable with an idea doesn't mean their in the right (path) or that it's true....but the truth does stand strong and firm....and knowing the "truth" can make a person feel (let's not use the word comfortable) confident.

Tranquil Servant said:

And just cause a person may "feel" comfortable doesn't mean that person isn't lost...

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No? So, what then, someone external needs to tell me if I'm spiritually lost? If I don't believe I'm spiritually lost, who will tell me otherwise?

Tranquil Servant said:

There have been many times where I felt comfortable in my belief until it was challenged which then made me feel uncomfortable cause really, only the truth will make a person feel comfortable...

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Is that right? This makes it sound like there is only one single "truth" for all people. Is that your assertion?

Tranquil Servant said:

the truth stands strong and firm

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It does? Which truth is this, and where can I see it standing strong and firm. Also, if it stands so strong and firm, this truth, why isn't it readily apparent to all and why do you feel people need a guide to find it?

Tranquil Servant said:

And I feel it's an obligation to "seek truth from the cradle to the grave"

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Have you found it? Can you share what it is?

Tranquil Servant said:

Well I agree...like I said..just cause someone feels comfortable with an idea doesn't mean their in the right (path) or that it's true....but the truth does stand strong and firm....and knowing the "truth" can make a person feel (let's not use the word comfortable) confident.

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So, God does not exist.

I am a very confident that He does not, in fact, exist.

Ciao

- viole

Demonslayer said:

No? So, what then, someone external needs to tell me if I'm spiritually lost? If I don't believe I'm spiritually lost, who will tell me otherwise?

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Many will tell you otherwise...believe me..especially on this website! But if you're "comfortable" or confident in what you believe, then what does it matter what people say unless you feel they make valid points that causes you to have doubts.

Demonslayer said:

It does? Which truth is this, and where can I see it standing strong and firm. Also, if it stands so strong and firm, this truth, why isn't it readily apparent to all and why do you feel people need a guide to find it?

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Demonslayer said:

Have you found it? Can you share what it is?

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Well...I believe there are many truths but when it comes to the subject of creation, the creator, how we got here, and spirituality..there can only be one truth...and that (truth) we all have to search for individually and with the desire to do so. There are many truths (aside from spirituality and religion) in this world which are apparent and obvious that people don't care to investigate or know about...Many people are blind to truth cause they think they're too cool to take off their sunglasses

viole said:

So, God does not exist.

I am a very confident that He does not, in fact, exist.

Ciao

- viole

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Ok...good for you and better for you if you never have a doubt.

Tranquil Servant said:

...
In my belief, God wanted us to have eternal life since the very beginning but he also gave us (Adam and Eve..the father and mother of all human beings) the freedom to choose it...Adam and Eve didn't choose eternal life but God is Merciful and is still offering us the opportunity to have eternal life (spiritually).

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That's fine .. but we have to consider the nature of God?
Isn't He omnisient? Doesn't that mean He knew what we were going to do before He created us?
..so these verses are more of a lesson, imo
How long were they in 'paradise' for? .. not long, I don't suppose!
A punishment? .. or a consequence of our nature

Tranquil Servant said:

Many will tell you otherwise...believe me..especially on this website! But if you're "comfortable" or confident in what you believe, then what does it matter what people say unless you feel they make valid points that causes you to have doubts.

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Sure I think we agree then based on what you are saying here.

Basically I disagree with the idea that people "may not know they are lost." I think if we, as individuals, are "spiritually lost" in some we, we always feel an indication of that. If we are comfortable in our lives I think that's indication that we are on the right track, for us. I think there is dissonance you can feel when you know you're not living the way that is right for you.

Tranquil Servant said:

Well...I believe there are many truths but when it comes to the subject of creation, the creator, how we got here, and spirituality..there can only be one truth

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I agree with the fact that there can be only one real factual truth about a creator...either there was one, or there wasn't.

I don't see much point in seeking that particular truth, however, because we very likely will never be able to prove it. Certainly in the case of DISproving a creator, we will never be able to do that because you can't prove a negative. A creator could prove Itself in a second if It would just appear, but I'm not holding my breath for that revelation.

But I'm curious about your post in light of this last statement because you said "and knowing the "truth" can make a person feel (let's not use the word comfortable) confident." You say this like anyone knows the truth. I don't think anyone knows the truth. We all have our beliefs and opinions, but no one knows the truth. So how then would you know that knowledge of the truth can make a person feel confident?

muhammad_isa said:

That's fine .. but we have to consider the nature of God?
Isn't He omnisient? Doesn't that mean He knew what we were going to do before He created us?
..so these verses are more of a lesson, imo
How long were they in 'paradise' for? .. not long, I don't suppose!
A punishment? .. or a consequence of our nature

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Isn't a punishment a consequence...? And yes God has a plan but he still gives us a choice... and our choices will either lead to a good consequence or a bad one.
You said these verses are more of a lesson? What do you mean by that? Aren't all of the stories of the Abrahamic faiths meant to be lessons or examples.

Tranquil Servant said:

You said these verses are more of a lesson? What do you mean by that? Aren't all of the stories of the Abrahamic faiths meant to be lessons or examples.

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Yes..
Apparently though, you see the lesson (as interpreted Islamically) as 'contradictory'
ie. Adam, peace be upon him, was forgiven, but punished him anyway..

You say that Almighty God wanted us to have eternal life from the beginning .. now I find THAT contradictory!
Why did God give us the nature He did if that is the case?!?

Tranquil Servant said:

This is true! But I also think it depends on the person and the situation...some people will obey and follow orders without asking questions (which is not always a good thing) but some people don't even care or want to ask questions for fear of the truth hurting them or because they don't want to be held accountable for knowing too much or knowing better. Even the Bible warns those who call themselves teachers.

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and you have stumbled unto the same stone I sit upon......
pleased to meet you

I do not follow blindly....I......
Do unto others as I would have it done unto me.

the truth behind what you see of me is going to hurt......

and it shall be done unto me as I have done unto others.....
how else to be fair?

self taught?.....yeah

viole said:

So, God does not exist.

I am a very confident that He does not, in fact, exist.

Ciao

- viole

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so you have no consequence pending your last breath.

and for any misdeed you have escaped.....none follow you.....

and you do not anticipate escaping that box or the hole in the ground where it will lay?

as the mocking bird sings we prepare with favoritism and conditions but too dare too dream what could of been without honey land of paradise aids but these days we have white picket fences so as to leave our mark in history i renhanced my marks yesterday .... . ..

Demonslayer said:

Basically I disagree with the idea that people "may not know they are lost." I think if we, as individuals, are "spiritually lost" in some we, we always feel an indication of that. If we are comfortable in our lives I think that's indication that we are on the right track, for us. I think there is dissonance you can feel when you know you're not living the way that is right for you.

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IDK if I agree with this cause not everybody is in tuned with their spiritually and know how to discern right from wrong...what may feel right to me may not feel right to you...also many people in this world are "comfortable" in their lives but it doesn't mean they're on the right track...but I guess I can understand what you mean.

Demonslayer said:

But I'm curious about your post in light of this last statement because you said "and knowing the "truth" can make a person feel (let's not use the word comfortable) confident." You say this like anyone knows the truth. I don't think anyone knows the truth. We all have our beliefs and opinions, but no one knows the truth. So how then would you know that knowledge of the truth can make a person feel confident?

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You are confident in your truth right?......if you were challenged or questioned about your belief...you'd know what to say to defend yourself..right? (That's assuming you would even care about defending yourself). A person has to feel confident in what they believe in or else they wouldn't claim that belief....I'm confident in my belief and to me it's the truth...just like I'm sure you believe your belief is the truth.

muhammad_isa said:

Yes..
Apparently though, you see the lesson (as interpreted Islamically) as 'contradictory'
ie. Adam, peace be upon him, was forgiven, but punished him anyway..

You say that Almighty God wanted us to have eternal life from the beginning .. now I find THAT contradictory!
Why did God give us the nature He did if that is the case?!?

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It's not contradictory cause you also believe that God has given us the opportunity to choose eternal life...don't you? If that is the case and we've already established that he is omniscient, then that was his intention from the very beginning....and Adam and Eve were the first ones he gave that option to..... I recommend reading the book of Genesis; specifically chapter 3 (and asking a Christian some questions).
Genesis 3
Romans 5:12-21

Thief said:

and you have stumbled unto the same stone I sit upon......
pleased to meet you

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Hey brother...I love that you speak poetically but sometimes I just don't know what you are saying (not in this post tho..I understand what you're saying in this one). Can you speak in more layman's terms sometimes...please? Lol

Tranquil Servant said:

Hey brother...I love that you speak poetically but sometimes I just don't know what you are saying (not in this post tho..I understand what you're saying in this one). Can you speak in more layman's terms sometimes...please? Lol

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I can try.

and when I joined the forum I did post in straightforward terms......
but there was objection
and warnings

so .....like the Carpenter....
parables and metaphors seem to work better

jerry greer said:

as the mocking bird sings we prepare with favoritism and conditions but too dare too dream what could of been without honey land of paradise aids but these days we have white picket fences so as to leave our mark in history i renhanced my marks yesterday .... . ..

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oh the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune......

ooops.....there I go again

Tranquil Servant said:

It's not contradictory cause you also believe that God has given us the opportunity to choose eternal life...don't you?

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Eh? Do you mean Almighty God has enabled us to choose to be a believer or a disbeliever?

Adam, peace be with him, was naturally a believer .. however his 'God given nature' did not allow him to live in paradise .. yes, we can achieve paradise after death, but we won't be in exactly the same circumstances as now.
Perhaps you think that Adam couldn't make it, but you can?

Never mind .. you wish to see it your way, and I see it my way.

oww the gathering society speaks for itself and are very load but dare to dream....

Tranquil Servant said:

IDK if I agree with this cause not everybody is in tuned with their spiritually and know how to discern right from wrong...what may feel right to me may not feel right to you

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Agreed about what may feel right for me may not feel right for you. I carry that to what IS right for me may not BE right for you. If I choose a simple life with a simple job, and I'm happy with that life, I probably wasn't meant to have a high-pressure big money job. If, on the other hand, I have a simple life and a simple job, but feel a longing for more and feel jealous of people with more money, perhaps I chose the wrong career. I think people almost always feel some sort of dissonance when they are living in a way that doesn't suit them.

Spiritually I think this stuff also takes care of itself. I was raised Catholic but from a very early age I remember being sort of creeped out by church and thinking the adults prattling on about God watching me and punishing me for anything I did wrong was a load of horsepoo. I hated church, never felt comforted, and as a very young child was always frustrated by people telling me to "talk to God" when I knew damn well inside no one was listening and I never got any sort of response. This was spiritual dissonance. Others have the reverse situation...raised irreligiously but feel some sort of empty place that they eventually fill with religion.

I think each person seeks their own comfort zone in most aspects of life, and I think in the vast majority of cases if there is a disconnect between what they are doing and what they "should" be doing to make them happy, the person feels it.