Inherited sin: yes or no

[Tranquil Servant]

Peace and blessings to all. I started to ponder upon this subject after my husband (who is Muslim) and I watched a debate with the well known writer, public speaker and missionary Ahmed Hoosen Deedat. I am Christian and while I acknowledge Mr. Deedat had valid points and is very knowledgeable, I can't help but to ask more....questions that I haven't heard anyone ask like...
According to Islam...
1. Was Adam and Eve created in this flesh we have? (I know they were created from dust or clay) were they bound to die just as we are bound to die?
2. Will those who make it to paradise physically transform turning this flesh into a new glorious body?
3. And if so, why? If this flesh we have isn't tainted and sin isn't inherited then why would our bodies have to transform in order to enter heaven?

If all we need to enter heaven is to have done more good deeds than bad deeds, then why would or bodies need to transform. Especially if God made Adam and Eve in this flesh and according to the Quran they were living in the paradise before they were casted out which brings me to another question....
According to Islam....
If all we need to be in God's good grace is to have done more good deeds than bad ones, then why did God cast Adam and Eve out of the paradise after they were tricked by satan and God accepted their repentance. Why would he let us into paradise after all the sins we have committed if he casted Adam and Eve out after only one sin which was initiated by satan? Repentance is a good deed...isn't it? And I'm sure by the time they committed that one sin, Adam and Eve had already done way more good deeds. They obeyed God upto that point....right? And even when they sinned, it was because they were tricked by satan. Isn't God the most merciful? According to the scriptures, God knew satan would try to trick them and that's why God warned them so intensely. So why would God cast them out of the paradise and punish them so severely for something that he knew would happen; punish them so severely even after he accepted their repentance? It just sounds like God isn't that merciful. How can we make it into paradise? Adam and Eve were cast OUT for one sin so how will we make it INTO paradise with all the sins we have and will continue to commit intentionally and unintentionally?

 

[Thief]

too many questions up front.....but....I believe....

God created Man as a species....Day six
male and female.....no names....no law....no garden

He stopped creating....Day Seven
all of creation is in place at that point

Chapter Two of the 'Christian' book is not a retelling of Chapter one.
many treat it as such

Chapter Two is a story of manipulation
Adam is a chosen son of God
he is brought into ideal living conditions.....to walk with God

Adam is the given a deep sleep (anesthesia)
a rib is removed(surgery)
the rib is increased to full stature (cloning)
to produce a female copy (genetic engineering)

Adam is the given his twin sister for a bride
Eve is not born of women....no navel

as for getting thrown out of paradise.....
Man was never intended to live forever in flesh
flesh is just a means of creating unique spirit

after the alteration the specimens were released into the environment
that would indeed be....banishment from ideal living conditions

do your scriptures show a similar sequence?

 

[Falvlun]

My understanding is that Adam and even were banished specifically because they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and not necessarily because it was a sin.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the LordGod banished him from the Garden of Edento work the ground from which he had been taken.

The banishment was so they wouldn't also obtain eternal life, not because they were sullied by sin.

 

[Sabour]

why did God cast Adam and Eve out of the paradise after they were tricked by satan and God accepted their repentance

Before attempting to answer, let me clarify that I am answering according to my understandings, there could be much more information to share that I don't know. My answer may not be comprehensive. Let me add that Allah is the All Wise, and sometimes we don't manage to see the wisdom behind such things, but it is our duty to ask questions and try to find answers.

Let me answer you by quoting verses from the Quraan and give some explanations.

2:30
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

ًWe learn from this verse that Allah created us to live on the earth, and the angels knew somehow by God's permission that we "people" will cause corruption. " stealing, killing, not obeying God". This means that the story of Adam and Eve and satan is the way in which Allah wanted us to begin life on earth. So the question here would be why. Before answering let me provide you with more verses from the Quraan. Note that for the first two verses I used a different translation than the other verses because it giver clearer meaning. Note that I provided some comments for the scholars between some verses.

Chapter 7

11. And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.


12. He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.

Some scholars say that this is the first sin ever committed. It is racism. Satan saw that he was a better creation than Adam and refused to prostrate.

13. [ Allah ] said, "Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.

14. [Satan] said, "Reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."

15. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved."


16. [Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.

17. Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."

18. [ Allah ] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."

19. And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

20. But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."

21. And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."

Some scholars here say that Adam and Eve didn't even think that someone would swear by Allah and lie because they were pure.

22. So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"

23. They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."

24. [ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."

25. He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."

26. O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember.

27. O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise, stripping them of their clothing to show them their private parts. Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them. Indeed, We have made the devils allies to those who do not believe.

28. And when they commit an immorality, they say, "We found our fathers doing it, and Allah has ordered us to do it." Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?"

29. Say, [O Muhammad], "My Lord has ordered justice and that you maintain yourselves [in worship of Him] at every place [or time] of prostration, and invoke Him, sincere to Him in religion." Just as He originated you, you will return [to life] -

Coming back to the question of why Allah chose for us to begin our life on earth this way, scholars say it is to show us that Satan is our enemy and the source of evil whispering. Allah showed us the way to enter paradise again and that is by following him and not following satan. Allah showed us that satan wants us outside paradise. The verses I quoted in red show this.


Now let me quote other verses to illustrate an important point.

Chapter 2

35. And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

36. But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."

37. Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

38. We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.


Verse 37 shows that Adam was guided by Allah to say some words (I think a prayer) and so his repentance was accepted. Verse 38 shows the way to enter heaven, that is following the guidance from Allah which was through the prophets including Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad peace be upon them all.

As for entering heaven, the first reason for that is the mercy of God. Second, it is following the guidance. Quraan has many verses talking about this. For Instance,

2:25
And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow; as often as they are regaled with food of the fruit thereof, they say: this is what was given us aforetime; and it is given to them in resemblance. There for them are pure companions; there for ever they abide.

2:82
But they who believe and do righteous deeds - those are the companions of Paradise; they will abide therein eternally.

2:277 Indeed, those who believe and do righteous deeds and establish prayer and give zakah will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

3:57 But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and Allah does not like the wrongdoers.

4:57 But those who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide forever. For them therein are purified spouses, and We will admit them to deepening shade.

4: 122 But the ones who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. [It is] the promise of Allah , [which is] truth, and who is more truthful than Allah in statement.


There are many many verses which talk about getting into heaven. But the common thing between the verses I quoted and many other verses is that they show two important points. The first is believing and the second is doing righteous deeds. Those two should be side by side and they both complement each other. One of them alone is not sufficient.

You may ask here, what should we believe in. Throughout the Quraan, you can find the answer, but let me quote this verse

2:285 The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."

2:177
Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

 

[rusra02]

I do not believe Adam nor Eve repented. They were perfect and their sin was willful and deliberate. Though Eve believed the Devil's lies, the Bible reveals Adam did not. (1 Timothy 2:14) When confronted with their sin, both sought to deflect their blame to others. God passed the death sentence on both and they both eventually died. Adam passed on to his descendants sin and death according to the Scriptures. (Romans 5:12) IMO, the notion that God judges us on the basis of the number of good deeds versus sins we perform, is also not valid. (Ezekiel 18:21-32)

 

[Sabour]

2. Will those who make it to paradise physically transform turning this flesh into a new glorious body?

This is comparison is not even close, but imaging you would want to live on another planet. Can we live on another planet actually? There are several things you will have to take into consideration.

If we lived somewhere with a little pressure, we will explode.
If we lived somewhere with too much pressure, we will implode.
If we live on a planet with more gravity, we won't be able to move.

What I mean is that we are created this way for living on earth, and heaven is all different.

Another major reason is that in heaven we are perfect creations. We are not needy. Meaning we don't feel hunger, thirst, the need to go to the bathroom, envy, jealousy, nor needy.

 

[Thief]

my rendition is simple.....having given Man (as a species) the ability to dominate all things.....
we turned on each other

something had to be done....Man was too much like an animal

so choosing a particular fellow, bringing him to ideal living conditions and lengthening his life....
God walked with a man
this would be the one outstanding item about Adam

a suitable mate would be needed so the alteration would not perish altogether
offspring would be the item intended

but it was also required the alteration be proven....in both of them

Man needs to be that creature that seeks to know....even if death as pending...
because it is pending

it may appear to be a test they failed.....but I don't believe that.

Man had become that creature knowing of death and not so afraid ......
that he will venture into danger and death......to know....

having shown the alteration had taken hold.....
the first family were 'cast out' into the environment

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I do not believe Adam nor Eve repented. They were perfect and their sin was willful and deliberate.

That makes no sense considering neither Adam nor Eve knew right from wrong until after they had already eaten from the tree.

"22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"


How can Adam & Eve have wilfully sinned when they didn't know the concept existed, never mind what it was? God didn't take any time to explain to them what sin was prior to this; nor did he gift them the knowledge of what right & wrong was. Adam & Eve had to take it. From a tree that God placed in Eden... deliberately... knowing they were going to eat from it....

If Adam & Eve 'sinned' then in what way is the Biblical god a just one?

So, to answer the original question: "Inherited sin: yes or no?" No.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"Inherited sin: yes or no?
No.

 

[Thief]

inherited condition.....yes.....mortal...

 

[Demonslayer]

If we lived somewhere with a little pressure, we will explode.
If we lived somewhere with too much pressure, we will implode.
If we live on a planet with more gravity, we won't be able to move.

This kind of thought always reminds me of the puddle who looked around and said "I can't believe how lucky I am to have found a hole exactly my shape and size!"

 

[Sabour]

This kind of thought always reminds me of the puddle who looked around and said "I can't believe how lucky I am to have found a hole exactly my shape and size!"

huh ?

 

[Demonslayer]

huh ?

I've never met someone who didn't get that statement.

The puddle believes the hole was thoughtfully created the exact shape and size to fit it.
When in reality, the shape and size of the puddle was determined by the existing hole.

 

[Thief]

I've never met someone who didn't get that statement.

The puddle believes the hole was thoughtfully created the exact shape and size to fit it.
When in reality, the shape and size of the puddle was determined by the existing hole.

indeed ....
and are we not puddles?

 

[PackJason]

My dad stole a candy bar once when he was a kid. I don't feel guilty about it.

 

[Sabour]

I've never met someone who didn't get that statement.

The puddle believes the hole was thoughtfully created the exact shape and size to fit it.
When in reality, the shape and size of the puddle was determined by the existing hole.

I got that, but how is that related to what I already posted. There is no relation.

I was explaining why we are a new creation in heaven different from the creation we are here on earth.

 

[Demonslayer]

and are we not puddles?

We are the puddles yes. In that we didn't exist independently from earth with our current physical resistance to certain levels of air pressure and gravity, needed some uber-being to create a planet with just the right levels of each to suit us. Rather, our species developed to fit our surroundings. If there was way more or less air pressure on Earth, humans...all creatures for that matter...would have developed differently.

 

[Demonslayer]

I was explaining why we are a new creation in heaven different from the creation we are here on earth.

OK perhaps I misread your post. I thought you were saying something like "isn't it miraculous that the Earth has just the right air pressure and gravity to suit human beings." Suggesting that it must have been created specifically with us in mind.

It's something I've heard a lot, if that's not what you were saying here, mea culpa.

 

[Sabour]

OK perhaps I misread your post. I thought you were saying something like "isn't it miraculous that the Earth has just the right air pressure and gravity to suit human beings." Suggesting that it must have been created specifically with us in mind.

It's something I've heard a lot, if that's not what you were saying here, mea culpa.

Now I see where the confusion was.

After all it is God's plan for us to live on the earth and thus it was created to suit us and we were created in which we are able to live on earth .....

Maybe now you can use your initial post?

 

[PackJason]

After all it is God's plan for us to live on the earth and thus it was created to suit us and we were created in which we are able to live on earth

... In your opinion.