Will the real Trinity please stand up.

Buttercup said:

I forgot to mention the other day.......this quote from you makes me feel good. And this is why I personally think the LDS are Christians, just like the rest of us. If you believe Jesus to be God...there is nothing else to explain to me.

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Thanks Buttercup. Even though we tend to focus on our differences for the sake of interesting discussion, the truth be known we probably agree on 90% of religious issues.

Buttercup said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14.

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Hi, Buttercup.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but I've been out of town all week. I totally believe everything this passage says about Jesus. But I think the words "with God" are key to understanding that the Father and the Son are two separate beings, both of whom share the title of "God." The word "with" implies a relationship that cannot exist unless there are two separate entities.

In this passage the Word (Jesus) was God. Read it really carefully and with prayer....it says it all.

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Yes, He was. But He was not His own Father.

This is also true. The Father and the Son are virtually identical, but they are Father and Son -- not one being who takes turns playing two roles.

…to clarify and hopefully help get the discussion forward I will ask, do you believe a corporeal being is made of one substance?

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If so, what is it made out of? If not, what is it made out of?
I feel comfortable noting that you do in fact believe we are made of 2 substances:
1. Physical matter
2. Spirit
Correct me if I'm wrong.

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We’re clearly not communicating, Victor. Yes, I believe that each of us is made of both physical matter and spirit. But, just as I am not both corporeal and incorporeal at the same time, I don’t believe that Jesus Christ is both corporeal and incorporeal at the same time. We both have an incorporeal spirit but also have physical bodies.

I really do hope your intention is well placed here Squirt. If your intention is to show that non-LDS can't explain the Trinity and don't necessarily agree, then I will tap out now and tell you that they may certainly disagree. Although it has been my experience that the Trinity only seems to be stumbling block to LDS.

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And why would my intentions be otherwise? When I see Scott describe his understanding of the Trinity, it strikes me as relatively close to my own understanding of the Godhead, but when I see Buttercup describe her understanding of the Trinity, it doesn’t. In my experience, all Latter-day Saints pretty much have the same understanding of what we believe God to be and how we understand the relationship between the Father and the Son. But when I ask people who claim to believe in the Trinity (as defined in the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds), I get a whole assortment of answers.

As Scott noted in the Trinity thread "no clue". Perhaps we would see Him as corporeal, perhaps not. Perhaps we'll see him project Himself as three persons. Beats me....

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See, I totally disagree with you here. We will see a Father and a Son – just as Stephen did when He saw the Son of God sitting on the right hand of His Father.

In the sense that He played the part of both to show us how it's done...

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This doesn’t even come close to what Scott said. He “played the part of both”? Obviously, you aren’t getting this from the Bible. He is His own Son and His own Father, and showed us how to have a parent-child relationship with ourselves?

I want to make sure I understand what you mean by "single substance". Do you consider, let's say physical matter as a single substance?

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It all depends. Water, for instance, is a single substance. Is that what you mean?

This is very true :hug:...but we don't usually have that problem with Squirty....she's very gracious and truly is curious. I like our conversations.

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lunamoth said:

Oh, I know. I love squirt too! Just feeling snarky today I guess. Sorry squirt--no offense intended.

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Hi, guys! I've been out of town on business. I didn't just drop off the face of the earth, but the withdrawals were excruciating. I just thought I'd take a minute to mention that, while I truly love a good debate -- and this particular topic is one of my favorites -- if I ever sense that I'm on the verge of hurting someone's feelings because we disagree on these things, I will always bow out of the debate rather than do so. The Book of Mormon teaches that Satan is the father of contention and I know that it is more important to God that we love and respect one another than it is that one of us convince the other of anything. So please, please understand that if I ever overstep the boundaries, I want you to tell me.

Love ya both,

Squirty

Buttercup said:

I forgot to mention the other day.......this quote from you makes me feel good. And this is why I personally think the LDS are Christians, just like the rest of us. If you believe Jesus to be God...there is nothing else to explain to me.

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:highfive: Thank you! Yes, we absolutely do believe that Jesus Christ is God. :highfive:

OK, I just had a thought. Instead of focusing seeing the trinity outside of ourselves, let's look at the importance of being made in God's image.

Trinitizing Consciousness

God is a Triune being, just as we on Earth are a triune being! We are superconscious, conscious and subconscious minds! We are a trinity as well! We are also a trinity in the sense of Mind, Body and Spirit! Just as God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are separate aspects of God and work as one consciousness, we have three separate aspects of consciousness, and our three minds need to work as one integrated mind! The three minds function as one mind once mastered and integrated just as God, Christ and the Holy Spirit do. more . . .