Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

Isaiah 9:17
Therefore the Lord will take no pleasure in the young men, nor will he pity the fatherless and widows, for everyone is ungodly and wicked, every mouth speaks folly. Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised.

Isaiah 32:6
For fools speak folly, their hearts are bent on evil: They practice ungodliness and spread error concerning the LORD; the hungry they leave empty and from the thirsty they withhold water.

Ephesians 4:29
Do not let any unwholesome [not true] talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Matthew 12: 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.34"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart

Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 8:25
He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.

John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

savagewind said:

If you meant (by that stuff about unclean invading the clean) you mean the Bible is about the fight for right, then I agree.

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Yes, first spiritually and then physically. It must begin inside before it can be true on the outside.

Romans 8: 11-14 is one of the most widely misunderstood texts of the New Testament due to much poor quality spiritual food having by mysticism robbed it away from the principles given us at Matthew chapter 23 so that few link this together with what Jesus there explained.

savagewind said:

But, isn't the worst fight going inside all, heathen and believer alike? Jesus said take up the sword, be killed by the sword. OK?

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Yes, that is what Matthew chapter 23 is about. The fight being waged on the inside should be seen translating to the outside, if indeed we really are at work cleaning up ourselves on the inside:

Matthew 23: 26 “Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup (the vessel others will drink spiritually from) and [the] platter (the plate of spiritual food served along with the drink), that the outside of them may be clean also.”

For, a good tree is known by it's fruit. A good tree does not produce bad fruit, nor does a bad tree produce good fruit.

Similarly, what our spiritual leaders really are begins with the quality of that spiritual drink and the quality of that spiritual food they have stored on the inside. Otherwise, what they are on the outside will be but a whitewashed grave hiding what they are on the inside. Such ones easily seduce and fool the unlearned and the unsteady.

And while Matthew 23 is predominately about the quality of those who think themselves qualified to be our teachers, we can all take a lesson from those same principles as they do apply in the manner of Romans 8: 11, giving life to our mortal bodies by the righteousness of God which is His holy spirit or the inner driving moral force in His image.

It equates to our inner person's things treasured, the things we truly value in our hearts. For from there is where it is determined whether we are a vessel of dishonor, vessels of wrath fitted to destruction (Romans 9: 21-22), or a vessel of honor (2 Timothy 2: 21) which God can view as alive from the dead, risen with Christ as a new creation.

savagewind said:

Can your mind substitute sword with hate? Take up hate be killed by hate. Mine can.
Matthew 15:
17"Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? 18"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.19"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders 20"These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.

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That would be a bad way to hate. But you deny your image in the likeness of God to deny all uses of hate. Practically any emotion has both a good and a bad use. Even love gets used wrongly by those who love according to how it seems good to themselves. Rather than turning to completely denying an emotion as your answer, you would do far better to learn to understand that emotion and bring it into subjection to God's spirit.

We are told not to take up the physical sword to defend ourselves with it (except perhaps against wild animals as would have been common on their journeys back there in the first century), but we are told to take up the spiritual sword to defend ourselves with it:

Ephesians 6: 17 “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God..”

savagewind said:

Evil thoughts? What are they? What about false witness? Is saying, "God hates" a false witness? Let's talk about theft. When (I mean if) any holy word of God got changed the original meaning was taken away to make room for the false idea. That is theft.
How about adultery? The fleshly sin of adultery is very bad. Is spiritual adultery not worse? I am sure I have more to say, but I shouldn't feed the troll. Not you. I have a troll. What's wrong with that?

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The fact that spiritual adultery may be worse than fleshly adultery should not be used to condone fleshly adultery.

I would think that one cannot commit fleshly adultery alone. They have to commit spiritual adultery at the same time.

Why? Because fleshly adultery is a form of idolatry:

Colossians 3: 5 “Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: sexual immorality, uncleanness, depraved passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry ..” (World English Bible)

It seems to me, dear friend, that your words promote the fact that love becomes provoked. I can hear you telling me I should be provoked to hate badness (I do), even bad people (I don't).

Tell me then, please, why does your Bible and my Bible say "love is not provoked"? You are preaching against that "truth". Are you not?

Mountain_Climber said:

Look at it from God's perspective; He has an entire family of humans to get cleaned up from the mire they have been rolling in. You can relate to that if you compare it to your own family.

Say for example your goal is to help your family and that the land you lived in was ruined by man's wars and all of your watering sources were polluted from the uncleanness practiced by all of your neighbors.

You would know that these unclean sources of water breed disease and pose a very real threat of taking the life of those who you love, especially your family who are so close to you.

So you work very hard to establish a clean source of water for your family and to repair the destruction caused of war which has made you family's life very difficult.

How are you going to feel about those outsiders who disrespect what you are trying to do for your family and so they come in and undo all of your hard work, rendering it valueless to have even tried to make things better. How are you going to feel about those who haughtily do that, who refuse to listen and care any at all about what they do and how it harms your family?

This picture is presented in the scriptures.

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Are paragraphs 2-5 about God's perspective? WHOSE work is being ruined, according to you?

There is a problem I see with imitating God to hate people. Some people hide what they are. Some people do not hide their dissolute ways. I hear I am supposed to hate the second kind to be in God's likeness. What about the first kind? Who should I hate? Do you see it? How do YOU deal with the problem of wolves in sheep's cover?

I am sorry. Relative to my posting history I do not b*tch much about not being heard but I really do not know so I apologize to them who do hear even though I can't hear back.

I have another what if. What if the woman you married becomes a wanton woman after? Or what if a person's husband does?

The Bible says, "love your wife" and it seems to say hate bad people. Which one will you go with?

The Bible says, "wives obey your husbands". What if he was a wolve in sheep's cover so you married him because you didn't know? Then you find out. What then?

Off topic I am? OK. Am I really? How can I be off topic talking to myself? Oh sorry. I did it again.

I got another one. Hebrews 10:25 says be "not forsaking the gathering together" but what if you think someone who is or would gather together with you is a bad person?

savagewind said:

It seems to me, dear friend, that your words promote the fact that love becomes provoked. I can hear you telling me I should be provoked to hate badness (I do), even bad people (I don't).

Tell me then, please, why does your Bible and my Bible say "love is not provoked"? You are preaching against that "truth". Are you not?

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You don't understand love, either. You view love as though it is an emotion rather than a way of choice and action. You have cheapened these attributes of God by means of that way of viewing them. Unfortunately, you think you are intelligent and that is getting in the way of your being able to see and really understand. Why not humble yourself away from that for a little while and give yourself a chance to understand?

It is precisely because you view these things in terms of cheap emotions that you will never be able to master them. You will never know how to bring them into subjection to the spirit for you are always hiding from them, stuffing them out of sight rather than learning to deal with them. In short you deal with them as an addict does addiction, trying to make believe the tendency should not exist rather than retraining the natural tendency and turning it's use from bad to good.

Having hate subjected to the holy spirit is not to be provoked by hate. Having hate apart from it being in subjection to the holy spirit is to be provoked by hate.

This is a crucial point you and I are at. If you refuse to remove your facade of intelligence out of the way and try to understand, then I am left with no choice but to assume that you are puffed up with pride and unwilling to allow anyone to work with you so as to help you.

Think about that very carefully, for you are in the process of chasing away another minister of God's grace to you.

WOW. OK. Tell me please how you know I view love as an emotion? I have said more than anyone else I see that God is LOVE. God is not an emotion. So how do you say I view love as an emotion?

Mountain_Climber said:

Having hate subjected to the holy spirit is not to be provoked by hate. Having hate apart from it being in subjection to the holy spirit is to be provoked by hate.

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It is my opinion EVERYTHING is subject to The Holy Spirit. I think that is me agreeing.

Mountain_Climber said:

This is a crucial point you and I are at. If you refuse to remove your facade of intelligence out of the way and try to understand, then I am left with no choice but to assume that you are puffed up with pride and unwilling to allow anyone to work with you so as to help you.

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What are you helping me to do?

savagewind said:

What are you helping me to do?

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To embrace the fuller attributes of God into your life, handling them as he does, rather than rewriting the Bible and denying God by denying part of his attributes.

Every attribute of God you deny is like reinventing a God of your own choosing.

savagewind said:

It is my opinion EVERYTHING is subject to The Holy Spirit. I think that is me agreeing.

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That would be true, IF, you did not have to claim that the spirit directing you tells you that certain scriptures in the Bible do not say what the original language texts reveal they do say.

And you have frequently done that at your convenience to justify yourself in the point you wish to make.

God's spirit would not lie against him or against his words, proving that the spirit guiding you is of another source. Generally that source would be self. Your mind tells you what you want to hear and you call that God's spirit.

savagewind said:

I got another one. Hebrews 10:25 says be "not forsaking the gathering together" but what if you think someone who is or would gather together with you is a bad person?

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You give what others think about you too much attention on the level of paranoia.

You need to learn the difference between one who sees you as bad with no desire to help you and one who sees you do bad and desires to help you. A shepherd who corrects you because he loves God and who loves you and so calls a duck a duck when he sees a duck is your friend, not your enemy.

Proverbs 27:6 "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."

Mountain_Climber said:

To embrace the fuller attributes of God into your life, handling them as he does, rather than rewriting the Bible and denying God by denying part of his attributes.

Every attribute of God you deny is like reinventing a God of your own choosing.

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I believe for every word of God you reinvent you do worse than deny God. You deny God's son.

Mountain_Climber said:

That would be true, IF, you did not have to claim that the spirit directing you tells you that certain scriptures in the Bible do not say what the original language texts reveal they do say.

And you have frequently done that at your convenience to justify yourself in the point you wish to make.

God's spirit would not lie against him or against his words, proving that the spirit guiding you is of another source. Generally that source would be self. Your mind tells you what you want to hear and you call that God's spirit.

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FYI God is not man's written word

savagewind said:

WOW. OK. Tell me please how you know I view love as an emotion? I have said more than anyone else I see that God is LOVE. God is not an emotion. So how do you say I view love as an emotion?

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Because you see love as something you need to fearfully protect. (compare: 1 John 4:18)

In your mind if you allowed room for godly hate you would not be able to love as that hate would have to negate your love.

That proves your grip on love is weak. Weakened because you rely more on feeling it than on understanding it. Therefore you frantically invent ideas to protect that feeling, ideas such as there can be absolutely no hate, not even godly hate after the image of God.

If in reality you viewed love as a choice and as a thing to be understood as God understands it, then you would know that all these other attributes can be regulated so as to work together with love. And you would know that is what justice is, the balance of interplay of a godly intelligent love with the need to hate things that fight against loves work.

That might be far more than you can right now grasp but you will never grasp it until you begin to be willing to consider it.

savagewind said:

I believe for every word of God you reinvent you do worse than deny God. You deny God's son.

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And that is correct. Every word of God one reinvents, they do worse than deny God. They deny God and God's son.

savagewind said:

FYI God is not man's written word

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That is also true.

That is why God guided man to write for him. The man was merely the pen used in God's hand.

And if you doubt God could do that, then you doubt God.

It is that simple.