How can other religions reconcile with Islam?

YmirGF · Jan 7, 2015

jeager106 said:
Oooops. Decimile in the worng place. Thanks for the correction.
16 million militant islamics.

I made a typo....it's 160 Million. LOL. (I hate that when you spot a mistake and have a mistake in your own dang answer.) Jeez.

The post is now correct, LOL. Hope you don't pee yourself since you thought 1.6 million was pretty serious. Did you know that according to PEW a further 20% are sympathetic to the above 10%? So, add in 320 Million who won't lift a finger to stop them, but for whatever reason, would not join them on the fringes. That's nearing 1/2 a billion folks. Allahu akbar, eh?

jeager106 · Jan 7, 2015

NulliuSINverba said:
Isn't it true that Islam has traditionally viewed the world as two diametrically opposed camps?

دار الإسلام
(The House of Islam)

and

دار الحرب
(The House of War)

...

On their side of the line is peace, and on your side of the line is war. How do you reconcile with such a worldview?

I don't know the muslim worldview. I only know the atrocities I watch on the news.
The extremist war will never stop.
Please explain what you mean by "and on your side of the line is war"?
I don't see the west attacking the muslim world by murdering muslims for something as silly as a cartoon.
If someone or group make a joke of my relgion I won't commit crimes againt them for it.
No one I know would murder in the name of religion, or politics.
No one I know would commit murder by suicide.

jeager106 · Jan 8, 2015

YmirGF said:
I made a typo....it's 160 Million. LOL. (I hate that when you spot a mistake and have a mistake in your own dang answer.) Jeez.

Easy to do ain't it?

jeager106 · Jan 8, 2015

YmirGF said:
And the Germans, and the French, the Romans, the Greeks, the Turks etc...

Yes in centuries past. I don't see tribal warfare in those countries in modern history.
Don't forget the tribal conflicts in Britain, and our own American Natives.

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

jeager106 said:
Easy to do ain't it?

With numbers as depressing, and as revealing, as these what's a few million either way. Heck there would be a few million slip over every other day from one to the other camp.

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

One way to reconcile Islam is to learn as much about Islam, from a wide variety of sources. Stay away from ANTI-Islamic sites on the Interweb. If the stuff you find on AUTHENTIC Islamic sites doesn't curl your hair, I don't know what would. The problem with most of the Anti sites is that they often have gross inaccuracies in their rants and it is difficult to spot at first. It takes awhile to get over mistaken first impressions.

I heartily recommend the vast amount of scholarly works by Professor Bernard Lewis. He is one of the foremost non-Muslim authorities in the world today.

Pink Top Hat · Jan 8, 2015

jeager106 said:
In the face of the savage attacks in Paris, in the face of the murders of school children in Pakastan,
the slitting of throats of unarmed innocent people on the internet, how can radical islam be trusted in any way?
When I was a police officer I ran afoul of some muslims that owned businesses.
These men owned a mom and pop corner grocery & bought food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar.
Doubling the profit and it was illegal.
I learned that several muslims in our city that owned businesses were sending money to radical muslims to fund attacks on Israel.
I invite muslim friends here to read and respond please.
When I investigated the practice of buying food stamps illegally for profit I was threatened with death by muslims. These men, 3 of them, told me boldy that they have no use for U.S. laws, only Sharia law.
They did not view themselves as anything but ethical muslims working for the greater cause of world
domination. If I got in the way I would be dealt with. I turned everything over to the F.B.I. I doubt anything was done.
That was 30 years ago and I can see that extremists are very successful at what they do.
How do we of different religious views reconcile with greater islam????

You start by asking yourself why do your government support radical extremists. You ask yourself why does your government fund and supply who they call 'moderate rebels'. You ask yourself why do Western government support Saudi wahabism and allow it's spread. You ask yourself why when the president of Egypt asks for your government to declare known MB terrorists as terrorists and your government refuses and in fact allow them to open HQ in your own countries when they are deported or flee arrest from Egypt. Once you have dealt with all of that on your side then you can start addressing the other side who have been fighting this battle it seems alone against US and UK and it's allies support of radical terror groups.

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

Pink Top Hat said:
You start by asking yourself why do your government support radical extremists. You ask yourself why does your government fund and supply who they call 'moderate rebels'. You ask yourself why do Western government support Saudi wahabism and allow it's spread. You ask yourself why when the president of Egypt asks for your government to declare known MB terrorists as terrorists and your government refuses and in fact allow them to open HQ in your own countries when they are deported or flee arrest from Egypt. Once you have dealt with all of that on your side then you can start addressing the other side who have been fighting this battle it seems alone against US and UK and it's allies support of radical terror groups.

But before you can even do this, the public must educate itself as best as it can about what they are facing. The reality is that Islam is far from being good news to non-Muslims.

Pink Top Hat · Jan 8, 2015

jeager106 said:
Shadow wolf. Thank you also for the stats.
I'm addressing murderous acts in the here and now, not many hundred of years ago.
I acknowledged that Christianity has had a very bloody, wicked, past.
Those actions by Christians have long ago gone the way of the extinct creatures that crawled our planet. By and large nearly NONE of the religions of the world commit the kinds of savage acts we see worldwide committed by muslim extremists.
I'm addressing violent, savage acts, committed across the globe. I did not see Isreal citizens openly cheering the deaths of innocent Palistinains.
I'm not suggesting the vast majority of muslims support this inhmane treatment of people who conjure up cartoons.
By the way. Islam makes up 23% of the world population, not 2%. From wiki: " With about 1.6 billion followers or 23% of earth's population, Islam is the second- largest religion and one of the fastest-growing major religions in the world."
We don't see Buddist, or Hindus, or Christians acting out acts like extremist muslims by publishing beheadings on the internet or siezing territory by warfare.
I think every religious group is aware of the crimes committed in the name of Christianity in centuries past.
When hamas began rocket attacks against Isreal the t-v showed thousands of Palistinian
muslims cherring in the streets in support of the attacks.
When muslim extremists killed Jews in a synagogue again thousand of muslims cheered in the streets while handing out candies and treets to passersby.
That was an example of collective support for murder. We don't see any other group, religious or political cheering en mass when muslims are killed by military action.
When did we ever see mass collective cheering by Americans when the coaltion military bombs and kills ISIS fighters?????? Or the French or the Brits, or the Aussies, or anyone else.
I can't grasp, my mind won't wrap around actions by a collective group in support of murders.
The same collective support is shown tonight on CNN televison. Thousands of muslims cheering the muders of the innocents in France.
I find that collective group support abhorrent behavior.
Still that kind of support is found in Arabic and north African islam, not in other islamic countrys.

are you for real? I don't know where to start in answering this drivel!

First point I will make is European Christians not back in dinosaur times slaughtered each other by the millions in 2 world wars! Do I really have to document the savagery?

Second point is Google Israeli's cheering the killing of the Gazans while sitting on the hilltops during the last operation slaughterhouse. you will find plenty photos and evidence.

This is a beauty!
"We don't see Buddist, or Hindus, or Christians acting out acts like extremist muslims by publishing beheadings on the internet or siezing territory by warfare."

Google Uighurs, and Hindu against Muslim slaughters in India, Christians napalming and nuclear bombing children in the far East. some good photos on that subject. Israeli stern and haganah gangs bombing hotels and killing british and Arabs and stealing land by warfare which is still ongoing by the way.
my dear the French Christians were famous for beheading!! Google Marie Antoinette for example. Google Spanish Inquisition for more delicious savagery Christian style. Google hang drawn and quartering. Google burning of heretics and women and children by catholics all over Europe. Google extermination by gas chamber. Skinning people alive or experimentation by the Nazi Christians. It's all carefully documented for history. The Muslims don't even come close in the scale of horrors created by the rest of the world if we are honest.

Pink Top Hat · Jan 8, 2015

YmirGF said:
But before you can even do this, the public must educate itself as best as it can about what they are facing. The reality is that Islam is far from being good news to non-Muslims.

why?

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

Pink Top Hat said:
why?

Islam is a replacement theology that doesn't play well with other narratives.

columbus · Jan 8, 2015

jeager106 said:
I don't know the muslim worldview. I only know the atrocities I watch on the news.

This is a huge part of the problem you can work on. Learn more about it.

Back in 1999, some intifada or another erupted in Palestine. It registered on me that I knew far more about a half dozen ancient cultures than the 1.5 billion Muslims I was actually sharing the world with.
I set out to learn more. Not just the Quraan, or Islamic religious beliefs, but the history and cultures and current events and all. Boy was I in for a shock! Not only did I find out how much there is to know, but how much of what little I knew was at best partial truth and lots flat out wrong. USonian sources are notorious for keeping embarrassing facts from the USonian people. We are typically uninterested enough to even ask. That is a huge part of why so much in the middle east is so puzzling to most of us. We just don't care until it affects us directly and then prefer simple half truths to real information.

I can say that I correctly predicted the outcome of the invasion of Iraq. I did not need satellites or the CIA. I just talked to a bunch of Muslims who had connection to the region. The lies the government was telling were pretty transparent with just a basic background info.

I wish I were able to get back there to ask them about ISIS. Seriously, short of the name they predicted it would happen. The information is out there. But you won't get it from the media. I'm no scholar or anything, but the ignorance of the typical USonian is stunning and can be changed.

Tom

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

columbus said:
This is a huge part of the problem you can work on. Learn more about it.

Back in 1999, some intifada or another erupted in Palestine. It registered on me that I knew far more about a half dozen ancient cultures than the 1.5 billion Muslims I was actually sharing the world with.
I set out to learn more. Not just the Quraan, or Islamic religious beliefs, but the history and cultures and current events and all. Boy was I in for a shock! Not only did I find out how much there is to know, but how much of what little I knew was at best partial truth and lots flat out wrong. USonian sources are notorious for keeping embarrassing facts from the USonian people. We are typically uninterested enough to even ask. That is a huge part of why so much in the middle east is so puzzling to most of us. We just don't care until it affects us directly and then prefer simple half truths to real information.

I can say that I correctly predicted the outcome of the invasion of Iraq. I did not need satellites or the CIA. I just talked to a bunch of Muslims who had connection to the region. The lies the government was telling were pretty transparent with just a basic background info.

I wish I were able to get back there to ask them about ISIS. Seriously, short of the name they predicted it would happen. The information is out there. But you won't get it from the media. I'm no scholar or anything, but the ignorance of the typical USonian is stunning and can be changed.

Tom

I think a lot of folks outside the administration(s) accurately predicted what would happen in Iraq. And no, you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see it either. In regards to your last line, I wholeheartedly agree. When I talk to people about Islam you can see their eyes glaze over in about two minutes (max). They don't know diddly about Islam. It can be corrected, but it will take a lot of time and work. When the public is educated the politicians will not be able to get away with doing end-runs around reality hoping that no one notices.

Pink Top Hat · Jan 8, 2015

JayJayDee said:
Since we all have a choice about the god we worship, Muslims, like any others who follow a different path to Christians, have chosen their God.

The God of the Bible does not force people to worship him. Many former Muslims fear for their lives when they choose to serve Jehovah instead of Allah. Jehovah is not a dictator, but a benevolent Father who allows his children to choose their own path. He has no time for mindless obedience motivated by fear. He tells us clearly where other paths lead but will not stop us from making a wrong choice.

Those who have chosen to embrace Islam, who were former Christians, were often turned off by the conduct and teachings of Christendom, which were not representing the God of Jesus anyway. (Luke 17:1, 2)

Since Jesus said that 'no one can come to him' as Messiah unless they are "drawn" by his Father, that means that God will give all potential worshippers an opportunity to come to a knowledge of the truth. (John 6:44) This will be the case no matter where they are in the world or what religion, if any, they were born into.

Jehovah is a reader of hearts and is aware of those who are genuinely searching for him with a complete heart. (1 Chron 28:9) He knows what we are thinking and what motivates us, so it is He who is looking for us, rather than just we who are looking for Him.

He has already stated in his word that "few" are on the road to life. (Matt 713, 14) Will we be among them...that is the question.

Christians were burning and beheading long before ISIS. Henry the 8th beheaded two of his wives for goodness sake!

The God of the bible does not force people to worship him YET the Spanish Inquisition and plenty more thought it did.

The God in the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion and to you your religion and to me mine. BUT that doesn't stop radical nutcases doing what the Spanish inquisitors and Catholic bishops did.

BOTH scriptures are against forcing religion on people. Let's be honest about it.

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

Pink Top Hat said:
Christians were burning and beheading long before ISIS. Henry the 8th beheaded two of his wives for goodness sake!

The God of the bible does not force people to worship him YET the Spanish Inquisition and plenty more thought it did.

The God in the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion and to you your religion and to me mine. BUT that doesn't stop radical nutcases doing what the Spanish inquisitors and Catholic bishops did.

BOTH scriptures are against forcing religion on people. Let's be honest about it.

At the same time, Muhammad was certainly compelled by the Arch-Angel Gabriel to "Read/Recite". So much for the "no compulsion" thingy. It does look good in the marketing brochures though.

NulliuSINverba · Jan 8, 2015

jeager106 said:
I don't know the muslim worldview.

Suggestion: Try to learn about it.

I only know the atrocities I watch on the news.

Whose news and whose atrocities?

The extremist war will never stop.

This is the nature of extremism, isn't it?

Please explain what you mean by "and on your side of the line is war"?

Let's assume that it's correct (and minimally controversial) to assert that Islam does indeed view the world as two diametrically opposed camps. If their side of the line is "The Abode of Peace" and the other side of the line is "The Abode of War" ... what conclusions can we reach? Do you really need me to draw a picture?

I'm certainly not trying to suggest that everyone of the Muslim faith adheres to this worldview. However, at the foundational level, this does appear to be fairly mundane stuff.

I'm convinced that Islam wants peace. All they need to do is expand their sphere of influence until it encompasses the other side of the dividing line. Viola! World Peace. Who'd be opposed to that?

I don't see the west attacking the muslim world ...

Oh really?

... by murdering muslims for something as silly as a cartoon.

I'm pretty sure that man-made depictions of living things are forbidden in Islam.

See "Aniconism."

This is why it's probably pointless to ask you to name ten famous Muslim cartoonists. Are there any?

If someone or group make a joke of my relgion I won't commit crimes againt them for it.

Congratulations.

No one I know would murder in the name of religion, or politics.

Congratulations.

No one I know would commit murder by suicide.

Congratulations.

...

Not to labor the obvious, but it appears that you're not the problem.

Pink Top Hat · Jan 8, 2015

columbus said:
This is a huge part of the problem you can work on. Learn more about it.

Back in 1999, some intifada or another erupted in Palestine. It registered on me that I knew far more about a half dozen ancient cultures than the 1.5 billion Muslims I was actually sharing the world with.
I set out to learn more. Not just the Quraan, or Islamic religious beliefs, but the history and cultures and current events and all. Boy was I in for a shock! Not only did I find out how much there is to know, but how much of what little I knew was at best partial truth and lots flat out wrong. USonian sources are notorious for keeping embarrassing facts from the USonian people. We are typically uninterested enough to even ask. That is a huge part of why so much in the middle east is so puzzling to most of us. We just don't care until it affects us directly and then prefer simple half truths to real information.

I can say that I correctly predicted the outcome of the invasion of Iraq. I did not need satellites or the CIA. I just talked to a bunch of Muslims who had connection to the region. The lies the government was telling were pretty transparent with just a basic background info.

I wish I were able to get back there to ask them about ISIS. Seriously, short of the name they predicted it would happen. The information is out there. But you won't get it from the media. I'm no scholar or anything, but the ignorance of the typical USonian is stunning and can be changed.

Tom

I will give you two names

Gadaffi and Assad. BOTH predicted what would happen if the Americans armed the 'rebels'.

Funny how the West desperately wanted to oust both of them. One for sweet crude and the other for the proposed gas pipeline.

Pink Top Hat · Jan 8, 2015

YmirGF said:
At the same time, Muhammad was certainly compelled by the Arch-Angel Gabriel to "Read/Recite". So much for the "no compulsion" thingy. It does look good in the marketing brochures though.

he was not compelled to read

he was illiterate, he was compelled to recite to remember for them later to be written down

jeager106 · Jan 8, 2015

Pink Top Hat said:
are you for real? I don't know where to start in answering this drivel!

First point I will make is European Christians not back in dinosaur times slaughtered each other by the millions in 2 world wars! Do I really have to document the savagery?

Second point is Google Israeli's cheering the killing of the Gazans while sitting on the hilltops during the last operation slaughterhouse. you will find plenty photos and evidence.

This is a beauty!
"We don't see Buddist, or Hindus, or Christians acting out acts like extremist muslims by publishing beheadings on the internet or siezing territory by warfare."

Google Uighurs, and Hindu against Muslim slaughters in India, Christians napalming and nuclear bombing children in the far East. some good photos on that subject. Israeli stern and haganah gangs bombing hotels and killing british and Arabs and stealing land by warfare which is still ongoing by the way.
my dear the French Christians were famous for beheading!! Google Marie Antoinette for example. Google Spanish Inquisition for more delicious savagery Christian style. Google hang drawn and quartering. Google burning of heretics and women and children by catholics all over Europe. Google extermination by gas chamber. Skinning people alive or experimentation by the Nazi Christians. It's all carefully documented for history. The Muslims don't even come close in the scale of horrors created by the rest of the world if we are honest.

Hummm? History teached the U.S. was drawn into WWII by a savage sneak attack on the U.S. navy base at Pearl harbor. The U.S. declared war on Japan, a week later Hitler declared war on the U.S. drawing the U.S. into Europe.
The U.S. and it's allys fought a war that cost many lives to stop Hitlers agression in Europe.
The U.S. used 2 atomic bombs to bring Japan to surrender thus avoiding an invasion of mainland Japan that would have cost millions more lives on both sides.
The Nazis were in fact a group of crimnals not Christian but drawing heavily on evil pagan notions of racial superiority. This too is well documented. Hitler and his hencemen were in fact worshiping the occult, not a Christian God.
The French revolution and the Inquisition are anceint history and those acts of viscious not longer are tolerated.
Extremist muslims regularly commit terrorism in India againt those people.
I know of none committed by Hindus in Arabic nations.
No doubt history is rotten with warfare in the world. It seems the West has stopped that inhumane action years ago.
Musilm extremist terror attacks have been on the rise for decades.
The issue is what is happening in the here and now.
I would hope we have learned from the mistakes and atrocities committed in the past.
I don't know of any Christians or Americans that wear explosives to committ murder by suicide.
No doubt you are a person that would not ever entertain such a notion.
I doubt you and I are part of the problem of terroism.

YmirGF · Jan 8, 2015

Pink Top Hat said:
he was not compelled to read

he was illiterate, he was compelled to recite to remember for them later to be written down

Thank you for proving my point. So much for the "no compulsion in religion" marketing bullet.

For the record, I've had Muslims tell me both "read" and "recite". Some blame it on translators.

How can other religions reconcile with Islam?

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