I haven't seen it.
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What is the punishment for converting from Islam?
- Thread starter Godwilling
- Start date
Easy there guys 
I guess the best example is comparing the subject hate speech to a criminal leader (kinda like Hitler) that does nothing but led atrocious crimes, but the hater/leader themselves could have done nothing physical directly.
So, does/did Hitler deserve to be punished?
I guess the best example is comparing the subject hate speech to a criminal leader (kinda like Hitler) that does nothing but led atrocious crimes, but the hater/leader themselves could have done nothing physical directly.
So, does/did Hitler deserve to be punished?
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Counting the punishment of apostasy from the legitimacy that a lot of controversy, and the bustle mounted at this time, and with it fixed to the Qur'aan and Sunnah and the consensus of the nation, but he found it denies, and tries to abolish it, and to challenge the legitimate arbiter source, by claiming that the Qur'an contravene, or quote the verses from the Koran calls for freedom of belief is incompatible with, or challenge the ahaadeeth that clearly proved, or interpretation, or other means and ways that the denial of this Canon firmware!
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
This is Muhammad??
Doyoudeny??
(("Whoever changes his religion, allowance))
Doyoudeny??
(("Whoever changes his religion, allowance))
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Pangolinwasincite people toMessenger
For this brutal killing in this way
This information fromthe Muslimbooks
MohammedshovepangolinbetweenGmelinandaskSalamah IbnAkwa 'togiveher daughter
As I said earlier, there is similarly hits in pride and strength, it is said: dearest of pangolin and if happens that Banu Ghatafan sent her on a shaft it is including the make up. The pitting on the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him, sent in the sixth year of Zayd Ibn haarithah in secret, killing killed violently, linked the strand with her men, then linking up Sichuan province RIP camels. The old great, and carry her to the city, where a monument marks the killing of
For this brutal killing in this way
This information fromthe Muslimbooks
MohammedshovepangolinbetweenGmelinandaskSalamah IbnAkwa 'togiveher daughter
As I said earlier, there is similarly hits in pride and strength, it is said: dearest of pangolin and if happens that Banu Ghatafan sent her on a shaft it is including the make up. The pitting on the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him, sent in the sixth year of Zayd Ibn haarithah in secret, killing killed violently, linked the strand with her men, then linking up Sichuan province RIP camels. The old great, and carry her to the city, where a monument marks the killing of
mahmoud mrt
Member
Let see what the holy Quran says about faith and changing it. Well, in this case the holy Quran stated this fact clearly with no single atom of doubt:
(There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in God (Allah) hath grasped a firm hand hold which will never break. God (Allah) is Hearer, Knower.) holy Qur'an Surah 2. Al-Baqara, verse no. 256.
(And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?.) holy Qur'an Surah 10. Yunus, verse no. 99.
So how on earth did the punishment for apostasy came, well, this relate to the history, we will get to this part later,
Now I state the Islamic Scholar Opinion I Believe in:
Apostasy punishment is a political punishment Not a religious punishment:
Meaning that The normal apostate who does not make crimes against Islam or Muslims, Is left for God (Allah) punishment, No Muslim or Muslim state has the right to punish him ever, but the other apostate who commits the crime of trying to divide or disturb peace in the Muslim state, or make the crime of murdering a Muslim has no privilege, he is in the category of punishment.
This is the opinion I believe in. This is due to the fact that it's the only opinion that does not contradict with the holy Qur'an.
Historically, in the prophet's life the facts and incidents agree with this opinion, by the following:
1- The prophet did not ever punish the normal apostate who did not commit a crime of trying to divide or disturbthe Muslim state, or make the crime of murdering a Muslim.
In fact many Apostates Who were pretending to be Muslims like “Abdullah ibn Aubai ibn Slalol” Actually Insulted the prophet himself, and when some of the companions advised to punish him the prophet refused to punish him.
2- In the peace treaty between the prophet and the Quraish pagans in the 6th year of Higra, the terms clearly states that any apostate who comes to Quraish from the Muslim state is not followed or punished.
What made the opinions the states :”that apostate in the Muslim state is punished by death or imprisonment after a period of discussion with the scholars” popular are the wars of "Redda", and one fake tradition.
These wars “Redda” were in the age of the first (Khalifa) Ruler of the Muslim state after the prophet, he was Abu Bakr. It started because many Arabian tribes after the prophet's death started in apostasy; this was in direct conjunction with dividing the Muslim state and stopping paying the Zakat which is the normal tax system that funded the Muslim state. These wars however do not contradict with the scholar opinion that I bolded, that is in this specific incident apostasy was a political crime not a religious crime.
Regards,
Mahmoud
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Honestly...I am dishoriented and terrified by your words.
You can't even imagine how much I love the Arab people...I love all Mediterraneans, because I am a Mediterranean too.
Soldier of the devil? She just exposes what happens when you exploit the spiritual message of a religion and you turn it into something political and cultural.
I want them to live in secular democratic countries where they can enjoy freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
She just says the truth. so I must assume that you must be killed for telling the truth?
mahmoud mrt
Member
These are just a bunch of lies,
However if she is in a Muslim state I don’t agree of punishing her. Her lies must be refuted Clearly..
Let’s refute some of the fakes and lies she said,
1- She said the only time The Qur’an mentioned peace is to say that Muslims should not accept peace because they are superior, well she was talking about this verse 35 for chapter 47:
“So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is with you and will never deprive you of [the reward of] your deeds.”
This verse is talking about not asking first for peace with a nation that is currently fighting the Muslims
The Holy Quran has other verses that states that the Muslim should incline to peace whenever the enemy asks for it, even if the enemy is deceiving Muslims by this peace and intend to regroup and re-attack.
Holy Qur’an chapter 8:
61- And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
62- But if they intend to deceive you - then sufficient for you is Allah . It is He who supported you with His help and with the believers
Here are other verses insisting that the Muslims should never hurt any peaceful non-Muslims even in war:
Holy Qur’an chapter 4:
94- O you who have believed, when you go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah , investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace "You are not a believer," aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions. You [yourselves] were like that before; then Allah conferred His favor upon you, so investigate. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.
Here is another verse instructing the Muslims in war to give refuge and safety to any non-Muslims who seeks it, and ensure that he returns to his home safely
Holy Qur’an chapter 9:
6- And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
2- She said the holy Qur’an is against forgiveness and instruct Muslim not to forgive, this is a lie.
Here are the verses of the holy Qur’an the instructs Muslims to forgive all people and tells them that this is a way to heaven
Holy Qur’an chapter 3:
133- And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous
134- Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;
Here are other verses instructing the prophet to forgive the Jews:
Holy Qur’an chapter 5:
12- And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."
13-So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.
3- She said that Prophet Muhammad Abused and mas slaughtered the Jews, again this is a lie.
In Fact Peaceful Jews were never hurt, the Prophet Died with his armor Mortgaged to a Jew in Medina
Thee prophet made peach with “Kaybar” city which have more the 20,000 Jews in the last years of his life although he could have killed them,
The only Jews soldiers who were killed were who did top treason and prepared to kill all Muslims women and children while the Muslim army was defending Medina from an army of 10 thousand pagans in the Battle know as “Khandaq battle”. This was after a fair trial with a Muslim judge who was trusted by the Jews.
If you want to see how fair Islam was to Jews in Medina I invite you to read these verses, they talk about an incident where a Muslim thief stole an armor and then his family made a plot to accuse a Jew of the crime. This plot was clever that the prophet was convinced and was about to punish the Jew, but the holy Qur’an was revealed to clear the name of the Jew and convict the Muslim. The holy Qur’an was revealed to protect the Jew innocent person, and blame Muslims.
Holy Qur’an chapter4:
105- Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.
106- And seek forgiveness of Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.
107- And do not argue on behalf of those who deceive themselves. Indeed, Allah loves not one who is a habitually sinful deceiver.
108- They conceal [their evil intentions and deeds] from the people, but they cannot conceal [them] from Allah , and He is with them [in His knowledge] when they spend the night in such as He does not accept of speech. And ever is Allah , of what they do, encompassing.
109- Here you are - those who argue on their behalf in [this] worldly life - but who will argue with Allah for them on the Day of Resurrection, or who will [then] be their representative?
110- And whoever does a wrong or wrongs himself but then seeks forgiveness of Allah will find Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
111- And whoever commits a sin only earns it against himself. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
112- But whoever earns an offense or a sin and then blames it on an innocent [person] has taken upon himself a slander and manifest sin.
113- And if it was not for the favor of Allah upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And Allah has revealed to you the Book and wisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of Allah upon you been great.
,,,continued
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apophenia
Well-Known Member
I've been in the apo state for most of my life. It can be a bit punishing. Religions are usually cataphatic, and followers cannot grasp insight when it is expressed apophatically. They have an apoplexy. But I am no apologist - the recognition of religious visions and interpretations as apophenia is the apotheosis of apophasis.
Hers are not lies. I appreciate your quotations from the Qur'an; but she doesn't exposes the religion or the Qur'an.
She just analyzes how the political aspects of the history of Islam are taken out of context and turned into something evil.
Besides, the freedom of religion is something sacred.
It doesn't bother me if someone criticizes my religion, Christianity. It doesn't diminish my faith.
and Christianity is not a faith. It is a action. It is altruism. So, I wish lots of people left the Church.
I wish lots of Christians became Atheists because they don't deserve to be Christians.
To be Christian you are supposed to act like Jesus
So you believe Jesus is God, and as a christian you are supposed to act like God, utterly ridiculous.
Actually that's one of the big problems in Christian countries today, too many Christians who act like they think they are God, many of them in our government.
And you've decided that Muslims, that worship the exact same God Jews and Christians worship are evil??? So what makes you evil is not Who you worship or don't worship, but rather how you worship, and people that don't worship God exactly the way you do are evil, again utterly ridiculous.
Actually that's one of the big problems in Christian countries today, too many Christians who act like they think they are God, many of them in our government.
And you've decided that Muslims, that worship the exact same God Jews and Christians worship are evil??? So what makes you evil is not Who you worship or don't worship, but rather how you worship, and people that don't worship God exactly the way you do are evil, again utterly ridiculous.
Yeah...and in my country there is an atheistic professor who wrote lots of books in which he claims that the Bible is the stupidest book of the world. and that Christians are cretins (which is true, given that cretin comes from French chrétien)
he is a very praised and esteemed person and nobody bothers him.
so...you can realize how beautiful freedom of thought is
Hey, you think we want your rejects?
Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
For you that is the truth, for me these are slanders and hatred that can be cured through punishment if advising her does not help in islamic state.
Iam talking about what would happen to people like Ayaan hersi within Islamic Caliphate.
Dont play innocent, in bible the punishment of apostasy is mentioned too.
Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"
Let us look at Romans 1:20-32 (from the New Testament)"20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice.
Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."
Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."
This verse was sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him: 2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."
when did I say that Muslims are evil? can you read?
only because I said that I support Nonie Darwish?
Nonie Darwish has never said that Muslims are evil; she just condemns the political ideology that some men created ((by exploiting some passage from the Qur'an, and by taking some other thing here and there))
and the Muslims who say that you can't separate politics from Islam, really scare me.
Because politics has nothing to do with spirituality.
Besides, I said that killing an apostate is a crime against humanity; because apostates have the right to say that the political ideology (which is not the religion) is twisted, and has to be exposed.
Honestly, I don't care what is written in the Bible. We Christian don't take the Bible literally.
And by the way, I will always defend the freedom of speech and religion. Because in Christian countries anyone can criticize Christianity and even say that the Bible is full of idiocies. That's the beauty of the freedom of thought,
And I will always defend educated and bright people like Nonie Darwish and Ayaan Hirsi Ali...who maybe love the Muslim people more than lots of Muslims.
And I will fight until death to spread the freedom of thought in all the Mediterranean area. I want the Mediterranean area to gain back the splendor of its golden age, where any person had the freedom of religion. I want to promote cultural dialogue and criticism, which are the basis of intellectual progress and economic development
Actually I think politics NEEDS to be linked to spirituality, one of the biggest problems we have in America today is a bunch of mad politicians with no discernable spirituality. A political movement linked to Jesus' spirituality and political teachings (not obviously Republican) would be of great benefit to our country.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Did Israel created by peace or by war ?
arthra
Baha'i
There's a good overview of how "apostacy" is regarded in various countries and religions:
Apostasy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Apostasy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia