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Paul's view of women

SkylarHunter

SkylarHunter

Active Member
In 1 Cor. 13:34, 35 we read "the women should keep silent in the congregations. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak "
In Galatians 3:28 it says " There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
If I'm not mistaken, both were written by Paul. Maybe there is some specific context I'm not aware of, but I find it very confusing that the same person would write verses that downgrade women so much and also write a verse saying God doesn't make a difference between male and female.
Which one is valid?:confused:
 
Brinne

Brinne

Active Member
I'm not an expert in this field by any means but my guess is that maybe he is saying that women should retain their role in society as being lesser so it doesn't cause any sort of rebellious/revolutionary behavior from woman at the time yet still assures them their equality before God/Jesus Christ? :shrug:

That's just my guess, I'm interested to see what people more knowledgeable in this field have to say.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Although 1 Corinthians is one of the books that most scholars believe was written by Paul, I remember reading somewhere that some think that particular verse in Corinthians may have been added by a later scribe.

If I can remember where I read that and if I can find it I will give the source then.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
fantôme profane;3889254 said:
Although 1 Corinthians is one of the books that most scholars believe was written by Paul, I remember reading somewhere that some think that particular verse in Corinthians may have been added by a later scribe.

If I can remember where I read that and if I can find it I will give the source then.
Click to expand...
That's what's generally thought, according to the NT scholars I've studied with.
 
Thana

Thana

Lady
1 Corinthians 13:34 was written because of women being extremely uneducated in that time, And so if they were allowed to speak, They would've been constantly disrupting that's why it said to wait until they could ask their husbands.

It doesn't apply anymore.
 
FunctionalAtheist

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
Thana said:
1 Corinthians 13:34 was written because of women being extremely uneducated in that time, And so if they were allowed to speak, They would've been constantly disrupting that's why it said to wait until they could ask their husbands.

It doesn't apply anymore.
Click to expand...

Do you believe that women are equally educated with men across the globe today?

Do you believe that 'less' educated people should hold their tongue today?

Is there minimum level of education one needs to ask a question? Express an opinion?

Thanks in advance.
 
Thana

Thana

Lady
FunctionalAthiest said:
Do you believe that women are equally educated with men across the globe today?

Do you believe that 'less' educated people should hold their tongue today?

Is there minimum level of education one needs to ask a question? Express an opinion?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Nope to all three.

I'm guessing you were hoping for that answer so I'm going to jump ahead and remind you that we're talking about people who lived over A thousand plus years ago. So applying our ideology is about as helpful as... well I can't think of an idiom but you get the point.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Thana said:
Nope to all three.

I'm guessing you were hoping for that answer so I'm going to jump ahead and remind you that we're talking about people who lived over A thousand plus years ago. So applying our ideology is about as helpful as... well I can't think of an idiom but you get the point.
Click to expand...
"Teats on a bull" works real good...
 
FunctionalAtheist

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
Thana said:
Nope to all three.

I'm guessing you were hoping for that answer so I'm going to jump ahead and remind you that we're talking about people who lived over A thousand plus years ago. So applying our ideology is about as helpful as... well I can't think of an idiom but you get the point.
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
Thesavorofpan

Thesavorofpan

Is not going to save you.
SkylarHunter said:
In 1 Cor. 13:34, 35 we read "the women should keep silent in the congregations. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak "
In Galatians 3:28 it says " There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
If I'm not mistaken, both were written by Paul. Maybe there is some specific context I'm not aware of, but I find it very confusing that the same person would write verses that downgrade women so much and also write a verse saying God doesn't make a difference between male and female.
Which one is valid?:confused:
Click to expand...

By the way it is actually 1st Cor. 14:34,35

It's odd those two verses contradict 1st Cor 11:5, 11:13. My reference in my study bible says that Paul wasn't talking about a law of mosses, they wasn't sure what law he was referring too. But it's my personal belief that it was probably the law of the land at that time and Paul was giving them directions to protect themselves. Maybe women of that time wasn't allowed by the law of the land to lead a public event like a religious gathering. I'm not a historian so I don't have the information.
 
M

McNap

Member
You put yourself in a position of authority if you ask a question, since you demand an answer. And girls don't have authority over boys, but boys over girls.

If I'd be seperated with my girlfriend and she orders me to sit down for instance, I'd probably just obey her and sit down.
However if I'd take my girlfriend with me to visit my friends and she orders me to sit down in front of my friends it would be seen as inappropriate.
 
S

samosasauce

Active Member
McNap said:
You put yourself in a position of authority if you ask a question, since you demand an answer. And girls don't have authority over boys, but boys over girls.

If I'd be seperated with my girlfriend and she orders me to sit down for instance, I'd probably just obey her and sit down.
However if I'd take my girlfriend with me to visit my friends and she orders me to sit down in front of my friends it would be seen as inappropriate.
Click to expand...

But it's appropriate if you do that to her?
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Here is a lecture by Yale Professor Dale B. Martin where he talks about just this issue.

He has what I think is a very unique take on the Galatians verse, but he also talks about the fact that many scholars think the 1 Corinthians 14 verse was not in the original

Go to 12:35 in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_m10CyD-fs
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
SkylarHunter said:
In 1 Cor. 13:34, 35 we read "the women should keep silent in the congregations. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak "
In Galatians 3:28 it says " There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
If I'm not mistaken, both were written by Paul. Maybe there is some specific context I'm not aware of, but I find it very confusing that the same person would write verses that downgrade women so much and also write a verse saying God doesn't make a difference between male and female.
Which one is valid?:confused:
Click to expand...

There is not much to debate. Paul came from a patriarchal and misogynistic cultural context. So we have to decontextualize his words...
of course they are not divinely inspired
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I believe that forum member angellous_evangellous had a fair degree of expertise on the question. I'll wait for whatever insight he might choose to offer.
 
M

McNap

Member
samosasauce said:
But it's appropriate if you do that to her?
Click to expand...

No, but I think we should also see this verse in the perspective of evangelism.
We congregate for the sake of faithless people so they can ask questions.
The reason Paul requests our wifes to ask nothing is to create room for irreligious, or single girls to ask things.
It's not so much an order of Paul, but rather an advise that shows respect for people that aren't saved, or married yet.
 
SkylarHunter

SkylarHunter

Active Member
McNap said:
No, but I think we should also see this verse in the perspective of evangelism.
We congregate for the sake of faithless people so they can ask questions.
The reason Paul requests our wifes to ask nothing is to create room for irreligious, or single girls to ask things.
It's not so much an order of Paul, but rather an advise that shows respect for people that aren't saved, or married yet.
Click to expand...

Interesting point of view. I never considered it from that angle. Do you think his words applied to married women only?

I can't find a connection between married and saved. What does one have to do with the other?
 
SkylarHunter

SkylarHunter

Active Member
Hay85 said:
There is not much to debate. Paul came from a patriarchal and misogynistic cultural context. So we have to decontextualize his words...
Click to expand...

There is no denying that in Paul's time society was extremely patriarchal and misogynistic but in other letters he wrote things that indicate he valued women so it seems like there is a contradiction. I wonder if there was a shock between his culture and his real thoughts.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
SkylarHunter said:
There is no denying that in Paul's time society was extremely patriarchal and misogynistic but in other letters he wrote things that indicate he valued women so it seems like there is a contradiction. I wonder if there was a shock between his culture and his real thoughts.
Click to expand...

Some critics found contradictions even in one single paragraph...so, this doesn't surprise me. at all.
And they said that this might be symptom of a bipolar disorder.
 
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