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Epicureanism

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I'm reading on it. Are there any Epicureans here? I'm interested in it.

If you haven't seen my thread Satanic Buddhism, I think it matches what I was talking about, but I am slow headed so I have to reread things over and over to get a clue what it is, so I may be wrong, but so far that's what I got out of it.

Epicureanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opinions?

If anyone can sum it up for me that'd be great, or any books on it too.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
"Don't fear god,
Don't worry about death;
What is good is easy to get, and
What is terrible is easy to endure."

“Let no one be slow to seek wisdom when he is young nor weary in the search of it when he has grown old. For no age is too early or too late for the health of the soul. And to say that the season for studying philosophy has not yet come, or that it is past and gone, is like saying that the season for happiness is not yet or that it is now no more. Therefore, both old and young alike ought to seek wisdom, the former in order that, as age comes over him, he may be young in good things because of the grace of what has been, and the latter in order that, while he is young, he may at the same time be old, because he has no fear of the things which are to come. So we must exercise ourselves in the things which bring happiness, since, if that be present, we have everything, and, if that be absent, all our actions are directed towards attaining it.” —Epicurus, Letter to Menoeceus

It sounds a lot like Buddhism.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Old thread I know.

I found this interesting. Epicurus seems to have either been taken 3 different ways:

1. A complete materialist in the atheistic manner.
2. A materialist in the the way Epicureanism took him.
3. A materialist as Pierre Gassendi took it.

I find it fascinating how a French priest and Christopher Hitchens can both be Epicureans.

Shall look into it deeper.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
An easily available primary/secondary source for Epicurean teachings are, ironically, the letters of Seneca. Seneca often quotes the "dark philosopher" to demonstrate how wisdom isn't restricted to a single creed (in his case Stoicism).

The basic thrust of Epicureanism is that to gain happiness one must avoid unhappiness (duh!). People have misunderstood that to mean indulgence in sensual pleasures - sex, food, drink etc - but if anything Epicurus advocated avoiding anything that could lead to present or future unhappiness, including the after effects of overindulgence. He understood also that happiness is principally a product of the mind, master your own desires and you can deal with causes of unhappiness beyond your physical control, to an extent.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I'm Epicureous on my better days. Apparently, the founder wrote more than any other ancient philosopher. Unfortunately, most of his work was destroyed. I suspect that there's more to his teachings than what's been passed down.

It approaches pleasure as the absence of pain in the classical formula. There are definitely some flaws in the philosophy such as the contradiction just mentioned. It is amendable however.

It has to do with understanding how pleasure and pain are interconnected. Sometimes enduring hardship is worth it when it produces pleasurable long-term effects for example. It is somewhat akin to the cost-benefit analysis in economics.

Epicurus emphasized self-reliance, companionship, contentment, and aesthetic contemplation as some of the higher pleasures. The ideal was a state of ataraxia, which is characterized as freedom from anxiety and disturbance.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Epicurus wrote in one of his extant letters:

"...When we say, then, that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality, as we are understood to do by some through ignorance, prejudice, or willful misrepresentation. By pleasure we mean the absence of pain in the body and of trouble in the soul. It is not an unbroken succession of drinking-bouts and of revelry, not sexual lust, not the enjoyment of the fish and other delicacies of a luxurious table, which produce a pleasant life; it is sober reasoning, searching out the grounds of every choice and avoidance, and banishing those beliefs through which the greatest tumults take possession of the soul. Of all this the beginning and the greatest good is wisdom. Therefore wisdom is a more precious thing even than philosophy ; from it spring all the other virtues, for it teaches that we cannot live pleasantly without living wisely, honorably, and justly; nor live wisely, honorably, and justly without living pleasantly. For the virtues have grown into one with a pleasant life, and a pleasant life is inseparable from them..."

- Epicurus (Letter to Menoeceus)


I think that Epicureanism is a beautiful philosophy. It would lead an adherent to practise a life that is pleasant but not excessive, wise, free from mental anxiety or disturbance, calm, living attentively in the present, without any superstitious ideas and with the conviction of neither harming others nor being harmed oneself.

He furthermore believed that there was no afterlife, as a result of his attachment to atomist theories which posited that the "soul" was made up of mortal atoms that broke apart with the body. Yet he explained very clearly, indeed wonderfully, not to fear death because in his own words, "when we are, death is not come, and, when death is come, we are not. It is nothing, then, either to the living or to the dead, for with the living it is not and the dead exist no longer" (Letter to Menoeceus).

I can well understand why the late Christopher Hitchens said that he was a follower of Epicurus (even though Epicurus believed in the "gods" in a deistic way, in that they existed but did not intervene in the world or in human affairs).

If I were a materialist (believing in no soul or afterlife), deist or atheist that would probably be the kind of ethical framework I would adopt as my own. I would be Epicurean.

Indeed it reminds me much of the philosophy underpinning the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Hebrew Bible:

"...What does the worker gain from his toil? I have seen the burden God has laid on men. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God. I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him...I said in my heart with regard to human beings that God is testing them to show that they are but animals. For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is impermanent. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better than that all should enjoy their work, for that is their lot; who can bring them to see what will be after them?...As they [human beings] came from their mother's womb, so they shall go again, naked as they came...This is what I have seen to be good: it is fitting to eat and drink and find enjoyment in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of the life God gives us; for this is our lot..."

- Book of Ecclesiastes



Koheleth, the anonymous author of Ecclesiastes, also seems to intimate that when a person dies there is no existence afterwards (or at least he is agnostic on the topic of an afterlife as above) —"a living dog is better than a dead lion … the dead know nothing… their loves, their hates, their jealousies have long since perished." Koheleth's answer for this perennial grief of certain mortality is simply to seize the day and live in the now. He tells us, "Whatever it is in your power to do, do with all your might" and again, "enjoy happiness with the woman you love."

This seems very Epicurean to me: Make the most of your short time on earth, live wisely, justly, honourably and pleasantly.
 
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Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
A modern, integral approach differs in some key areas from the classical formula. It focuses more on increasing the pleasure and well-being of others. It has to do with enlightened life-interests that don't treat the individual's pleasure as separate from that of others. Whereas the old school sought seclusion from society, the new garden spreads naturally and gets involved in civil matters as well.
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
I'm reading on it. Are there any Epicureans here? I'm interested in it.

If you haven't seen my thread Satanic Buddhism, I think it matches what I was talking about, but I am slow headed so I have to reread things over and over to get a clue what it is, so I may be wrong, but so far that's what I got out of it.

Epicureanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opinions?

If anyone can sum it up for me that'd be great, or any books on it too.
sorry im just subbing in ..... Iv read your 1sr reply and i liked what it .....so don't have time to read more so im just subbing for later :)


i was actually looking for a thread about polyisium or something like that lol......but by fate ;) i found this one lol.......so ill just do a bit of checking up.on this religion first.....sorry
 
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