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Revelation 6:1,2

javajo

Well-Known Member
I never heard about seven years. Please share javajo. Thank you for posting.
Your welcome. My beliefs are: It comes partly from the 70 'weeks' of Daniel, each week being 7 years. According to Daniel 69 weeks have already happened but the 70th week of 7 years has not. This time is referred to as the 70th Week of Daniel, or the Time of Jacob's Trouble, or the Day of the Lord, and etc. In Revelation it says how at the midpoint certain events happen and uses the words of 'times, time and half a time' or 2 years plus 1 year plus 1/2 a year, or 3 1/2 years. Sometimes it is said 1,260 days or 42 months (Jewish calender had 360 days). I believe Jesus will rapture believers before the Tribulation, that's called a pre-tribulation rapture. Some believe in a mid-trib, some in a post-trib, and some in a 'pre-wrath rapture. Pre-wrathers believe the real wrath does not begin 'til around the midpoint of the tribulation, but with the opening judgements of the four horsemen, one fourth of everyone dies, so I don't believe that. There are also people who do not believe in the rapture or tribulation and there are many 'views' on end-time stuff. You can study the different views and see what makes the most sense from scripture. Here is the passage from Daniel:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks :) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...Daniel 9

So, 7 weeks plus 62 weeks is 69 weeks, leaving 1 more week of 7 years. Jesus was crucified. 62 X 7 is 434 years which is how long it was from the completion of the 2nd Temple to when Christ was crucified or 'cut off'.

The Seventieth Week of Daniel or Seven Year Tribulation begins with the signing of the 'covenant' by the Antichrist a couple passages down:

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Dan. 9
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thank you javajo

I don't believe anything unless I am certain it is true or I am certain believing it does not matter to me or anyone for bad. I have no idea what Daniel is talking about but I love him anyway. I do.

I believe my theology has caused me to be able to view absolutes.

But by seeing absolutes I have realized most people might be blind. Do you think that is not scary? That is a general question jo, and not addressed to you per se.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
I have a question if that's ok. You say the Lamb is Jesus. If we continue reading it says:


5:12 "Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing."



So, does it mean that Jesus is Worthy to receive wisdom?

But if Jesus is God, He already has Wisdom, why does He need to be worthy to recieve Wisdom?






Thanks


Jesus isnt God--He is Gods son--Catholicism translators mistranslated John 1:1 by leaving the a out of the last line( the greeks didnt use a,an,the in there written language) so to translate from greek to another language one had to know where to insert those to keep Gods word in harmony with itself. Also the greek word worship to God also had 4 other meanings, one was obesiance to a king-- in talking about our king Jesus the word obesiance belongs, not worship.
So Jesus is worthy of all of those things, because he could have sinned and failed.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So Jesus is worthy of all of those things, because he could have sinned and failed.

This is illogical. First of all because you make him equal to man. But he has always been Lord. Your group even teaches it so, but I don't know if You still do. Second of all He is hardly done so it can't be stated as a fact that he has NOT failed.

And if you read it one way it says He could have sinned but failed Sin 101. But I know that is not what you mean. Sorry!
Did you think is it funny I read Jesus could have sinned but failed sinning? I'm sorry maybe it's a long day. I apologize.

It is like saying he failed to fail.
 
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kjw47

Well-Known Member
This is illogical. First of all because you make him equal to man. But he has always been Lord. Your group even teaches it so, but I don't know if You still do. Second of all He is hardly done so it can't be stated as a fact that he has NOT failed.

And if you read it one way it says He could have sinned but failed Sin 101. But I know that is not what you mean. Sorry!
Did you think is it funny I read Jesus could have sinned but failed sinning? I'm sorry maybe it's a long day. I apologize.

It is like saying he failed to fail.


Jesus came here as a mortal to buy back what Adam lost for mankind, by dying a perfect humans death--He didnt owe the wages of sin, so it paid for what Adam had lost for mankind.
In the wilderness, satan asked Jesus to do an act of worship to him.He wanted Jesus to do a sin. He wouldnt have bothered wasting his time if it wasnt possible for Jesus to fail and sin like Adam did while perfect. Thus showing that sin = worship to satan.
I did not say that Jesus failed at sinning. I see what you mean though--i was saying he would have failed if he sinned.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus came here as a mortal to buy back what Adam lost for mankind, by dying a perfect humans death--He didnt owe the wages of sin, so it paid for what Adam had lost for mankind.
In the wilderness, satan asked Jesus to do an act of worship to him.He wanted Jesus to do a sin. He wouldnt have bothered wasting his time if it wasnt possible for Jesus to fail and sin like Adam did while perfect. Thus showing that sin = worship to satan.
I did not say that Jesus failed at sinning. I see what you mean though--i was saying he would have failed if he sinned.

That is very interesting. It is not my business to disagree with it. But I know you are just repeating what you have heard and it is not your original thought. Do you have your personal testimony to share please?
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
Thank you javajo

I don't believe anything unless I am certain it is true or I am certain believing it does not matter to me or anyone for bad. I have no idea what Daniel is talking about but I love him anyway. I do.

I believe my theology has caused me to be able to view absolutes.

But by seeing absolutes I have realized most people might be blind. Do you think that is not scary? That is a general question jo, and not addressed to you per se.
Sure, happy to share! I think I see what you are saying about absolutes. I have come to believe in some absolute truths. I believe most people are blind to what I believe is true about Jesus, that he is the truth. According to the Bible many people will be deceived by the rider on the white horse from Rev. 6 and will eventually worship him. That is scary.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
That is very interesting. It is not my business to disagree with it. But I know you are just repeating what you have heard and it is not your original thought. Do you have your personal testimony to share please?

Yes--i have found truth.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God has had teachers( men) on earth since Noahs day or before.

Enoch Genesis 5:24 He was before Noah.

Enoch proves my point exactly. He walked with God.

Strong's #854 "with" (denoting proximity).

Some people can hardly say they walk WITH God when what they really do is walk with the men who say they are walking with God.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Enoch Genesis 5:24 He was before Noah.

Enoch proves my point exactly. He walked with God.

Strong's #854 "with" (denoting proximity).

Some people can hardly say they walk WITH God when what they really do is walk with the men who say they are walking with God.

God dealt directly with some way back then.He doesnt now, At the proper time through the faithful and discreet slave-truths are revealed.
By living to do Gods will one could kind of say they walk with God. They are few.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
OK so you are saying that SINCE Jesus died a sacrificial death God has moved AWAY from people. I understand that people might think so. If it was me I would. But Jehovah does not change. God is still the same whatever they do to His Son. It's just the way it is.

30“He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
OK so you are saying that SINCE Jesus died a sacrificial death God has moved AWAY from people. I understand that people might think so. If it was me I would. But Jehovah does not change. God is still the same whatever they do to His Son. It's just the way it is.

30“He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.


Gods will is what Jesus does-- That is why Jesus said--I and the Father are one-- in purpose. God gave Jesus the authority as appointed king-- that is part of his reward for coming to earth and dying a perfect mortal life. He also recieves a bride- the little flock = 144,000. But after the 1000 year reign as king Jesus must hand back the kingdom( kingship) to his God and Father and be in subjection to him- 1 cor 15:24-28. Proving no equality.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Please address the post or in your imagination did you already?

The post says

Why is God FARTHER away now than HE was when Enoch walked? God was NEAR Enoch but NOW people need the faithful discreet slave to know God FOR us. WHY?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Can you really not see that the Watchtower Corporation is pictured in scripture as Saul?

1 Samuel 8:4

4Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; 5and they said to him, “Behold, you(1) have grown old(2), and your sons do not walk in your ways(3). Now appoint a king for us to judge us(4) like all the nations.” 6But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the LORD. 7The LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them(5). 8“Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day—in that they have forsaken Me(6) and served other gods(7)—so they are doing to you also. 9“Now then, listen to their voice(8); however, you shall solemnly warn them and tell them of the procedure(9) of the king who will reign over them.”
1 Our Father in Heaven let YOUR will be done
2 Where IS this promised presence of his?
3 False religion is the HARLOT
4 And a crown was given him (Rev 6:2)
5 Now the 144,000 will be our king.
6 The warning was ignored 2 Corinthians 6:1 "we also entreat you not to accept the underved kindness of God and miss it's purpose" NWT
7 Daniel 11:39
8 Revelation 13:16 Revelation 13:10
9 They have procedure all right. They are very proud of their procedure. It is what what makes them stick together

Peace
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jeremiah 17:9 Jehovah's Witnesses know it well but do not apply it to their leaders. Why?

The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?

Isaiah 1:5 Why should you be beaten anymore? Why do you persist in rebellion? Your whole head is injured, your whole heart afflicted.

Is the answer to "who can know it?" Jehovah Witness loyalists? Why do they go door to door claiming God is putting their leaders over all things?

The answer is because the rider rides the same horse as Christ.

Deuteronomy 17:16
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Can you really not see that the Watchtower Corporation is pictured in scripture as Saul?

1 Samuel 8:4

4Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; 5and they said to him, “Behold, you(1) have grown old(2), and your sons do not walk in your ways(3). Now appoint a king for us to judge us(4) like all the nations.” 6But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the LORD. 7The LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them(5). 8“Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day—in that they have forsaken Me(6) and served other gods(7)—so they are doing to you also. 9“Now then, listen to their voice(8); however, you shall solemnly warn them and tell them of the procedure(9) of the king who will reign over them.”
1 Our Father in Heaven let YOUR will be done
2 Where IS this promised presence of his?
3 False religion is the HARLOT
4 And a crown was given him (Rev 6:2)
5 Now the 144,000 will be our king.
6 The warning was ignored 2 Corinthians 6:1 "we also entreat you not to accept the underved kindness of God and miss it's purpose" NWT
7 Daniel 11:39
8 Revelation 13:16 Revelation 13:10
9 They have procedure all right. They are very proud of their procedure. It is what what makes them stick together

Peace


Are you asking a question here??
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Jeremiah 17:9 Jehovah's Witnesses know it well but do not apply it to their leaders. Why?

The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?

Isaiah 1:5 Why should you be beaten anymore? Why do you persist in rebellion? Your whole head is injured, your whole heart afflicted.

Is the answer to "who can know it?" Jehovah Witness loyalists? Why do they go door to door claiming God is putting their leaders over all things?

The answer is because the rider rides the same horse as Christ.

Deuteronomy 17:16

And what treacherous thing are you saying the JW leaders have done?
 
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