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Why cant God exist

Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
I have met and heard a lot of people claim that God does not exist. Usually when asked why they belive this the answer usually is around the lines of "We cant see God so he doesnt exist" or "science proves there is no God". I would like to know how can we conclude that there is no God or simply no higher intelligence then us given this one fact of life,

We cant explain the universe.

The two theorys we have to explain the universe and basically how everything works are Quantum Mechanics and Realativity. But these two theorys have a problem, they contradict eachother. There are efforts to combine these two theorys such as String theory, Super string, quantum gravity, loop quantum gravity and other theorys being pursued by individuals. We also have other questions dealing with the big bang, what existed before the big bang besides a small infinly massive mass? If the mass has existed for supposedly eternity why didnt the big bang happen erlier, or did it even exist for eternity, what set it off? If we cant explain how our uviverse works how can we determine if there is a higher inteligence?
 
S

standing_alone

Well-Known Member
Well, scientifically it can't be proven that God or a higher power exists because science only deals with natural evidence and explainations. Gods or higher powers are supernatural. So science isn't going to assume a god or higher power exists - goes against making a conservative hypothesis, that is, using established scientific findings, not ignoring them to make a hypothesis. So, don't expect science to explore the idea of a devine power anytime soon - nor should they. In my opinion, one can't prove god doesn't exist, but you can prove it rather unlikely.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
standing_alone said:
Well, scientifically it can't be proven that God or a higher power exists because science only deals with natural evidence and explainations. Gods or higher powers are supernatural. So science isn't going to assume a god or higher power exists - goes against making a conservative hypothesis, that is, using established scientific findings, not ignoring them to make a hypothesis. So, don't expect science to explore the idea of a devine power anytime soon - nor should they. In my opinion, one can't prove god doesn't exist, but you can prove it rather unlikely.
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Good point standing_alone; fruballs to you.;)

Apex, there's nothing more likely to get up a scientist's nose than the theist's plea of God must have started it, because there is no other answer which makes sense.

Belief in God is fine, but accept the fact that just because science can't prove what happens means you can 'plug the gap' with God.;)
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
There is a metaphysical menagerie full of fantasies and absurdities that science cannot disprove. Feel free to pick which ever one best suits you - you'll have my full support. Just don't pretend that your fantasy (1) explains anything whatsoever, or (2) is in anyway superior to the fantasy chosen by your neighbor. The Kingdom of God has no more ontological substance that does the Faerie Kingdom, and its God no more explanitory power than a couple of Pixies causing mischief.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Deut. 10:19 said:
There is a metaphysical menagerie full of fantasies and absurdities that science cannot disprove. Feel free to pick which ever one best suits you - you'll have my full support. Just don't pretend that your fantasy (1) explains anything whatsoever, or (2) is in anyway superior to the fantasy chosen by your neighbor. The Kingdom of God has no more ontological substance that does the Faerie Kingdom, and its God no more explanitory power than a couple of Pixies causing mischief.
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If you are talking about the God of the old testament, I'll stick to the pixies causing mischief; if it is about the God Jesus describes, I'll stick with him.
 
jewscout

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Deut. 10:19 said:
There is a metaphysical menagerie full of fantasies and absurdities that science cannot disprove. Feel free to pick which ever one best suits you - you'll have my full support. Just don't pretend that your fantasy (1) explains anything whatsoever, or (2) is in anyway superior to the fantasy chosen by your neighbor. The Kingdom of God has no more ontological substance that does the Faerie Kingdom, and its God no more explanitory power than a couple of Pixies causing mischief.
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:biglaugh: what about underpants gnomes?
 
Halcyon

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
No matter what people tell you Apex, the truth is that science actually has no opinion on God Itself.

It has opinions on the myths commonly associated with God, such as the Creation, but there is no literature that confirms nor denys the existance of a metaphysical deity.

Science is concerned with what can be observed and tested, within the physical and mathematical laws which bind this universe. God, by Its very nature, is not of these laws and as such is outside the scope of scientific investigation.

God has never been, and will never be disproved by science. Only the associated mythologies have been.
 
Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
michel said:
Good point standing_alone; fruballs to you.;)

Apex, there's nothing more likely to get up a scientist's nose than the theist's plea of God must have started it, because there is no other answer which makes sense.

Belief in God is fine, but accept the fact that just because science can't prove what happens means you can 'plug the gap' with God.;)
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I dont belive that God can plug any gap we come up with. Basically I dont belive in a "God of the gaps". I was just stating that I cant see how those who say "God can not exist" can belive such. A lot of this comes down to eveolution, creation and ID. People saying creation is false and evolution is true so God does not exist (even though the two theorys have nothing to do with each other). A very interesting issue as to wether there is a higher power or not or simply just knowing about the unkown is if we will ever figure out the physics of before the big bang.
 
Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
Halcyon said:
No matter what people tell you Apex, the truth is that science actually has no opinion on God Itself. It has opinions on the myths commonly associated with God, such as the Creation, but there is no literature that confirms nor denys the existance of a metaphysical deity. Science is concerned with what can be observed and tested, within the physical and mathematical laws which bind this universe. God, by Its very nature, is not of these laws and as such is outside the scope of scientific investigation.

God has never been, and will never be disproved by science. Only the associated mythologies have been.
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Yes, I know this. Now if only some other people I know would realize this.
 
Fatmop

Fatmop

Active Member
A lot of this comes down to eveolution, creation and ID.
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No, it comes down to zealotry. Heretics have been claiming God doesn't exist for centuries; evolution theory just gives them new evidence with which to do so. I'm with Deut on this one - I'm not going to say He doesn't exist, I just don't think it's especially possible.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Apex said:
I have met and heard a lot of people claim that God does not exist. Usually when asked why they belive this the answer usually is around the lines of "We cant see God so he doesnt exist" or "science proves there is no God". I would like to know how can we conclude that there is no God or simply no higher intelligence then us given this one fact of life,
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What one fact of life? I dont' think I have met anyone on here that says there is no God but rather there is no evidence for God.

Apex said:
We cant explain the universe.
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We can't explain the universe therefore God exists? Is that what you are saying?

Apex said:
The two theorys we have to explain the universe and basically how everything works are Quantum Mechanics and Realativity. But these two theorys have a problem, they contradict eachother. There are efforts to combine these two theorys such as String theory, Super string, quantum gravity, loop quantum gravity and other theorys being pursued by individuals. We also have other questions dealing with the big bang, what existed before the big bang besides a small infinly massive mass? If the mass has existed for supposedly eternity why didnt the big bang happen erlier, or did it even exist for eternity, what set it off?
Click to expand...
So again you are saying all the theories of the universe have yet to be proven or validated so therefore God exists?

Apex said:
If we cant explain how our uviverse works how can we determine if there is a higher inteligence?
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Or better question if we can't determine there is a higher intelligence than why do you follow an organized religion and believe and follow a God that you are conceeding can't be determined?
 
Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
robtex, I am not saying, nor do I want to be interpreted as saying, that because we cant explain the universe then God (or a higher inteligence) exists. I am made this because of some people think that science has prove there is no higher inteligence.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Apex said:
robtex, I am not saying, nor do I want to be interpreted as saying, that because we cant explain the universe then God (or a higher inteligence) exists. I am made this because of some people think that science has prove there is no higher inteligence.
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I don't think that posted on this forum anywhere. Alot of atheists (self not included) are really educated in the sciences and none of them ever say anything close to that.

But since your brought it up why do you feel science has yet to produce evidence of God and since it has not what is a reasonable alternate way to produce evidence that such a being exists and furthermore that he/she/it has even the slightest interest in mankind or earth?
 
Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
robtex said:
I don't think that posted on this forum anywhere. Alot of atheists (self not included) are really educated in the sciences and none of them ever say anything close to that.
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I wasnt really pointing it towards anyone here. Ive met others on other forums and a couple people I know in real life belive this.

But since your brought it up why do you feel science has yet to produce evidence of God and since it has not what is a reasonable alternate way to produce evidence that such a being exists and furthermore that he/she/it has even the slightest interest in mankind or earth?
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I dont think science will ever be able to provide evidence of a higher inteligence.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Apex, take a look at these two qoutes you made:

From your opening post:

Apex said:
IIf we cant explain how our uviverse works how can we determine if there is a higher inteligence?
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Form your last post:

Apex said:
I dont think science will ever be able to provide evidence of a higher inteligence.
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So you are saying God cannot be determined or validated through science. I concur.

Now understand that if you say God is not percievable with the 5 senses: Not validatable or testable by science than either you have to acknowledge another way God is percievable or contend that he is not physically percievable. If you say he is not physcially percievable I would have to ask how can you have a personal relationship with something you cannot precieve? How could interaction with anything not precivable, testable or verifable be anything but one way.
 
MdmSzdWhtGuy

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
I don't know of too many folks who say God or gods can't exist. But I am aware of a lot who will say there is no proof any God or gods do exist.

I can't with any degree of intellectual honesty say there is absolutely no way a dragon can exist, or the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus. There is no way of proving a negative. But I can say that there is no evidence for the existence of any of those mythical creatures.

Carl Sagan put it best, I think when he discussed the invisible, and undetectable dragon which lives in his garage. You cannot prove it doesn't exist, tho there are few who would argue that it does. In the end he ends up asking, "What difference is there between an invisible dragon that cannot be perceived and a dragon which does not exist at all?" or some close paraphrase thereof.

If God or gods exist, they have not chosen to make themselves detectable. And if we can't perceive them, what is the difference between them being there, but impreceptible, and not being there at all?

B.
 
Apex

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
robtex said:
Apex, take a look at these two qoutes you made:

From your opening post:


Form your last post:


So you are saying God cannot be determined or validated through science. I concur.

Now understand that if you say God is not percievable with the 5 senses: Not validatable or testable by science than either you have to acknowledge another way God is percievable or contend that he is not physically percievable. If you say he is not physcially percievable I would have to ask how can you have a personal relationship with something you cannot precieve? How could interaction with anything not precivable, testable or verifable be anything but one way.
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The way that I belive you can tell if he exists is through faith and His spirit. But thats not what this thread is about. If most people here dont say that God can not exists then thats good. I have just met others belive differently.
 
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