Why can't some people accept that the Israelites were black?

angellous_evangellous · Jan 20, 2012

The Sparda said:
Now let us reason together. Understanding that Ethiopia comes from the Greek word Aithiop, which means "dark skin", let us look at the description of Jesus in Revelation 1:14. "His head and his hairs were whit like wool, as white as snow: and his eyes were as a flame of fire," (which only means they were red), "and his feet like fine brass, as if they were burned in a furnace." (Also see Rev. 1:18).

Any rational minded person would understand that Jesus was not two colors, having a white head and a black or burnt (Aithiop) body. Reasoning will also cause you to understand that his hair is white and wooly, and his body and skin is like the Ethiopians (Dark Skin).

This particular gem is posted in many, many forums including:

JACOB AND ESAU - Lost African Religion

Rakhel · Jan 20, 2012

Has this one been found?

The Sparda said:
Roman historian Tacitus wrote that many of his time believed that the Jews "were a race of Ethiopian origin."

The Bible classifies the Ethiopians & Jews together, "Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? Saith the Lord." (Amos 9:7) Black Paul is mistaken for an "Egyptian" and declares he himself to be a "Jew." (Acts 21:37-39, 22: 2,3)

From a Rasta site no less
Black Jewish Tribes of Africa (Part 3: From Ethiopia to Israel) — Jide Uwechia – Rasta Livewire

angellous_evangellous · Jan 20, 2012

The Sparda said:
Egyptologist Cheikh Anta Diop invented a method for determining the level of melanin in the skin of human beings. When conducted on Egyptian mummies in the Museum of Man in Paris, this test indicated these remains were of Black people.

Also, the Bible states: "…[t]he sons of Ham [were] Cush and Mizraim [i.e. Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah and Sabtechah."

According to Biblical tradition, Ham, of course, was the father of the Black race. "Generally speaking all Semitic tradition (Jewish and Arab) class ancient Egypt with the countries of the Black."

This one is stolen from The Black Egyptians are the original settlers of Kemet

I don't think that our friend has the intellectual stamina to copy and paste from more than one website. I bet a buffalo nickel that all of his posts are plagiarized from that link.

It looks like several of his friends had the same idea - spamming the same crap all over the internet. I wonder if one could make money doing that....

Rakhel · Jan 20, 2012

The Sparda said:
Abraham, ancestor of the Hebrews, was from Chaldea; the ancient Chaldeans were Black.

This one is from
The Original Biblical Jews Were a Black African People

Rakhel · Jan 20, 2012

angellous_evangellous said:
This one is stolen from The Black Egyptians are the original settlers of Kemet

I don't think that our friend has the intellectual stamina to copy and paste from more than one website. I bet a buffalo nickel that all of his posts are plagiarized from that link.

It looks like several of his friends had the same idea - spamming the same crap all over the internet. I wonder if one could make money doing that....

possible, Like you said several of his posts have been found all over the web

angellous_evangellous · Jan 20, 2012

Rakhel said:
This one is from
The Original Biblical Jews Were a Black African People

Jeez. Sometimes it's quite delightful to see how pathetically stupid other people can be.

Rakhel · Jan 20, 2012

I often wonder if some people use the F&Q page on a website to answer questions to their obvious failings

"Oh you asked this question? well this website answered it this way so... There!! I got you!!"

angellous_evangellous · Jan 20, 2012

Rakhel said:
I often wonder if some people use the F&Q page on a website to answer questions to their obvious failings

I've long been an advocate for a simple competency test before one can join RF.

Questions like: what is a car?

Is the moon made of cheese?

How many corners does a circle have? (that's a brain teaser)

Does a triangle have five corners?

Nakosis · Jan 20, 2012

The Sparda said:
If a people lose the knowledge of who they are, they have lost the knowledge of their Nationality, History and Heritage. A people without a History is a people that doesn't exist.

Sometimes people make up a history and identify with it as if it were true. I don't think it matters if it is real or not. People want a history to identify with.

I don't accept that a "people" exists. We exist. It doesn't matter what one's "heritage" is. We still have to deal with each other. As long as we can do that fairly then there is not a problem.

One should not use their heritage as an excuse to treat others differently. It doesn't matter to me if a Jew is black or white or green. I have to deal with the actions of that individual exactly as I would the actions of any other individual.

Personally I think the ideal of heritage and tribal identity is stupid and without benefit. However people have been conned into thinking they need this sense of identity. I don't buy the necessity.

Sleeppy · Jan 20, 2012

I don't think it matters. But.. I can see that on both sides, there is some prideful passion. You can just about tell where the racial divide is in here. I probably wouldn't need an archaeology degree to pinpoint most of you. Everybody wants Jesus to be white, or black, or a gray alien. I have an opinion, but it doesn't really matter at this point. There's always some scientist, or scholar, for each position.

So, I'll say this: God definitely doesn't want us to focus on it. Let it be the Spirit who decides who belongs and who doesn't.

JacobEzra. · Jan 20, 2012

Sleeppy said:
I don't think it matters. But.. I can see that on both sides, there is some prideful passion. You can just about tell where the racial divide is in here. I probably wouldn't need an archaeology degree to pinpoint most of you. Everybody wants Jesus to be white, or black, or a gray alien. I have an opinion, but it doesn't really matter at this point. There's always some scientist, or scholar, for each position.

So, I'll say this: God definitely doesn't want us to focus on it. Let it be the Spirit who decides who belongs and who doesn't.

Not everybody. I hope he was a homosexual asian

Levite · Jan 20, 2012

Rakhel said:
Who's Biblical tradition says Ham was the father of the Black race?
Certainly not mine.

There are actually a couple of late midrashim that say that the curse of Ham was to blacken his skin. But it was hardly a universally-accepted idea, and in any case, it's midrash, not what is actually written in the text of Torah, and not what the Rabbis ever said was the literal meaning of the text.

Midrash is a vast pool of "what if," and you can find a thousand crazy ideas in there that nobody ever believed was literally true.

The idea that it was literal truth is actually a Christian eisegetic reading that dates from late medieval times. It had nothing to do with us.

But of course, Christians have always had a bit of an issue with blurring the lines between exegesis and eisegesis, and literal and interpreted meaning of text. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that fringe nutballs and fruitcakes can be convinced that something wacky is the literal meaning of Jewish text if a few antiquated or uninformed Christian study guides and dictionaries tell them so.

Caladan · Jan 20, 2012

Sleeppy said:
I don't think it matters. But.. I can see that on both sides, there is some prideful passion.

It doesn't matter. or at least it shouldn't. also I don't see two sides to this at all. there is one side who reviosionise and there are a number of members from diverse backgrounds debunking the claims.

You can just about tell where the racial divide is in here.

I believe you are wrong. and you will even surprise yourself if you research this more.

I probably wouldn't need an archaeology degree to pinpoint most of you. Everybody wants Jesus to be white, or black, or a gray alien. I have an opinion, but it doesn't really matter at this point. There's always some scientist, or scholar, for each position.

I think the important things are history as is, and scholarly consensus.

So, I'll say this: God definitely doesn't want us to focus on it. Let it be the Spirit who decides who belongs and who doesn't.

Why does a spirit needs to reject anyone?
why can't people be what they have been throughout history? whey can't they feel at ease with their cultural and historical background, or with their family history?
why do we need to revionise history to begin with in order to form a false exclusivity?

-Peacemaker- · Jan 20, 2012

Here's an interesting question. What if the suggestion was made that the Israelites were white? Would you see nearly the outcry to set the record straight that they were indeed brown and not white?

JacobEzra. · Jan 20, 2012

Reason that interpretation became so big in America, is because Christian slave owners used it to justify slavery. And especially in the south, the interpretation was popular into segregation era

Caladan · Jan 20, 2012

Junglej25 said:
Here's an interesting question. What if the suggestion was made that the Israelites were white? Would you see nearly the outcry to set the record straight that they were indeed brown and not white?

Acutually you would. when Christian identity movements make the same claim, the same people who debunk this claim also debunk theirs.

JacobEzra. · Jan 20, 2012

Caladan said:
why can't people be what they have been throughout history? whey can't they feel at ease with their cultural and historical background, or with their family history?
why do we need to revionise history to begin with in order to form a false exclusivity?

I wonder the samething. But it could come from the history of Black Americans.

Levite · Jan 20, 2012

Caladan said:
Acutually you would. when Christian identity movements make the same claim, the same people who debunk this claim also debunk theirs.

Yup. Very true. I have pointed out the fallacy of the blond-and-blue-eyed "surfer Jesus" with the pale skin and aquiline nose many a time.

The truth is that he probably looked a lot like my Uncle Dovid, who was wiry and dark olive skinned that tanned to deep brown, and covered with curly black hair everywhere but the top of his head, with a big beaky, thin-nostriled nose.

Whatever the political differences that have separated us from Arabs at various times, differences of physical features were not among the issues.

Caladan · Jan 20, 2012

Levite said:
Yup. Very true. I have pointed out the fallacy of the blond-and-blue-eyed "surfer Jesus" with the pale skin and aquiline nose many a time.

The truth is that he probably looked a lot like my Uncle Dovid, who was wiry and dark olive skinned that tanned to deep brown, and covered with curly black hair everywhere but the top of his head, with a big beaky, thin-nostriled nose.

Whatever the political differences that have separated us from Arabs at various times, differences of physical features were not among the issues.

The cultures and civilizations of the Near East and the Mediterranean seem to share plenty of features with each other. it didn't stop them from also engaging in conflicts with each other just as was the case with Europeans in several historical periods. or with other major geographical region with peoples who share resemblance to each other.

-Peacemaker- · Jan 20, 2012

Levite said:
Yup. Very true. I have pointed out the fallacy of the blond-and-blue-eyed "surfer Jesus" with the pale skin and aquiline nose many a time.

The truth is that he probably looked a lot like my Uncle Dovid, who was wiry and dark olive skinned that tanned to deep brown, and covered with curly black hair everywhere but the top of his head, with a big beaky, thin-nostriled nose.

Whatever the political differences that have separated us from Arabs at various times, differences of physical features were not among the issues.

I didn't say that it wouldn't exist, just that wouldn't attract quite the fervor that this issue does

Why can't some people accept that the Israelites were black?

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