Loving God.

Quiddity · Nov 17, 2005

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Then how to you deal with the story in the Bible where God tells one of his top followers to kill his son?

And I am asking this in all seriousness, not trying to pick a fight. I value and respect your opinion, and want to know how you, personally, can equate a God who makes this order with a loving diety.

B.

If you read the context you will read that God had promised Abraham he would be the descedants of many through the same exact son he was asking to kill. He had enough trust in Him to not fully understand but that He would keep his promise. That would mean that even if his son did die, it would only be temporary because God had promised something to him and resurrecting his son to fulfill his promise would be no problem. IF it came to that. But he stopped before he could do it.

~Victor

spacemonkey · Nov 17, 2005

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Then how to you deal with the story in the Bible where God tells one of his top followers to kill his son?

And I am asking this in all seriousness, not trying to pick a fight. I value and respect your opinion, and want to know how you, personally, can equate a God who makes this order with a loving diety.

B.

This is where the Gnostic view on the Bible and God come into play. According to Gnostic beliefs the creator, god of the OT, is a not the True God preached about by Jesus. Please read this http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

MdmSzdWhtGuy · Nov 17, 2005

First of all, thanks Victor. So God told Abraham to kill Isaac, but expected that Abraham knew if he did, Isaac would only be dead temporarily? Still think Isaac needs a say in all this, but who am I to question?

Spacemonkey,

I read the link. Thanks. Seems there are instead of about a bazillion different religions I knew about, there are now a bazillion and one. Other than yet another religion based on who knows what, I am not sure what else I can take from the linked information.

Gnostics reject the God of the Old Testament, but accept the Loving God Jesus preached about? Does that pretty much sum it up? If so, I can see the appeal. Old Testament God was not a nice person. Reminds me a lot of Allah. Lots of murdering innocent people in His name. Not a fan of that.

B.

Quiddity · Nov 17, 2005

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
First of all, thanks Victor. So God told Abraham to kill Isaac, but expected that Abraham knew if he did, Isaac would only be dead temporarily? Still think Isaac needs a say in all this, but who am I to question?

I should ask my 2 year old's input before I send him to the dentist as well. He will object for good reason. Let me guess, your smarter then a two year old? So am I..

~Victor

MdmSzdWhtGuy · Nov 17, 2005

Victor,

I presume you are taking the kid to the dentist for his own good. Can't really see how killing the kid and taking him to a health care provider equate to one another.

B.

Quiddity · Nov 17, 2005

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Victor,

I presume you are taking the kid to the dentist for his own good. Can't really see how killing the kid and taking him to a health care provider equate to one another.

B.

I know you can't and neither can I. But I will trust my Father. :shout

~Victor

spacemonkey · Nov 17, 2005

I read the link. Thanks. Seems there are instead of about a bazillion different religions I knew about, there are now a bazillion and one. Other than yet another religion based on who knows what, I am not sure what else I can take from the linked information

Gnostics tend to think that all of the religons have a piece of the Truth. Its not that there are a bazillion religions as much as a bazillion interpratations of one religion.

Gnostics reject the God of the Old Testament, but accept the Loving God Jesus preached about? Does that pretty much sum it up? If so, I can see the appeal. Old Testament God was not a nice person. Reminds me a lot of Allah. Lots of murdering innocent people in His name. Not a fan of that

Gnostics think that the OT "god" was actually a lesser being then the True God, one with matter but without spirit. A perfect analogy to Gnostic beliefs is in The Matrix trilogy. In the trilogy the Matrix was created by the "Deus Ex Machina" (literally "God from the Machine") in order to enslave mankind. In the films, the Matrix represents the physical world as it is viewed by gnostics, a lie meant to entrap our "divine spark". I could fill pages with more gnostic parallels found in the films (I belive the Wachowski's are gnostic) so if anyone is intreasted let me know.

Aqualung · Nov 17, 2005

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Victor,

I presume you are taking the kid to the dentist for his own good. Can't really see how killing the kid and taking him to a health care provider equate to one another.

B.

First of all - He DIDN'T kill him. It was asking him to kill him that did the good. Which is, strengthened his faith and made him think about what he was doing and why. Killing him probably would have done no good at all, which is why God told him it actually wouldn't be necessary.

MdmSzdWhtGuy · Nov 17, 2005

Aqualung said:
First of all - He DIDN'T kill him. It was asking him to kill him that did the good. Which is, strengthened his faith and made him think about what he was doing and why. Killing him probably would have done no good at all, which is why God told him it actually wouldn't be necessary.

Aqua,

You are officially off my kids' potential babysitter list. How can you defend this?

B.

Cordoba · Nov 17, 2005

It was a test from God to Prophet Abraham, Mdm.

Only a test.

jeffrey · Nov 18, 2005

Aqualung said:
I think the first step is trying to follow his commandments. and if you applied that same fervour to following God's commandments, you will probably find your love for him grow.

But I can hear and see my wife. Let me ask you this. Can you truthfully, without reservation, say that you love God more then your wife and/or family? I see my wife. touch her. She holds me. I can feel this ALL the time.

jeffrey · Nov 18, 2005

Ormiston said:
I've got a different take on this.....

I understand what your saying, but a 30 year old friend you see and talk to. And you do not love your friend with ALL your heart, soul and mind. Only a part of it.

I'll try it this way. My father died before I was born. My mom told me how great of a man he was. So have my uncles. I've seen pictures of him. I've felt his presence. But love him I do not.

Can you truthfully say you love God more then your family?

Ormiston · Nov 18, 2005

jgallandt said:
I understand what your saying, but a 30 year old friend you see and talk to. And you do not love your friend with ALL your heart, soul and mind. Only a part of it.
I'll try it this way. My father died before I was born. My mom told me how great of a man he was. So have my uncles. I've seen pictures of him. I've felt his presence. But love him I do not.
Can you truthfully say you love God more then your family?

I just think love is love and it manifests in many different ways. I don't think you love anyone more than anyone else. Either you love them or you don't.

jeffrey · Nov 18, 2005

I understand what your saying, and I hope your right! But I do not believe I love God with all my heart, soul and mind. I do my wife and kids. And if I God came down before me and asked me to kill my wife or kids, I'd say no. (In part because I do not believe that God would ever ask me that, and if I heard a voice telling that, it would be time to visit my taylor and be fitted for a straight jacket.) Can you, or anyone in here truthfully say they love God more then their family?

Scuba Pete · Nov 18, 2005

Dear friends...

You love God by loving his creation.

Matthew 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' NIV

God doesn't need to be fed: his children do. God doesn't need you to give him money. His children need it to help others. God doesn't need SQUAT. But there are plenty of people who need US. Check this scripture out:

I John 4:19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. NIV

Do you love your wife and bring honor to your marriage? You are loving God and bringing honor to him (he created marriage).

Do you love your kids and do your best to raise them? You are God's instrument in their lives. Even if you don't believe in God, just teaching them to be fair and good shows your love for the truth: which is God.

Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment. He didn't stop with just one:

Matthew 22:34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." NIV

You know, this is probably the EASIEST concept in the world to ascribe to intellectually, and the hardest to practice day in and day out. That guy who just cut you off? You have to love him. That dirty guy on the street you are trying to avoid? Yep... you have to love him too! You not only have to love the "lovable" people of the world, but the "unloveable" people as well. That's the hard part.

jeffrey · Nov 18, 2005

NetDoc, Thank you. I think I got a better grip on it now.

michel · Nov 18, 2005

NetDoc said:
You know, this is probably the EASIEST concept in the world to ascribe to intellectually, and the hardest to practice day in and day out. That guy who just cut you off? You have to love him. That dirty guy on the street you are trying to avoid? Yep... you have to love him too! You not only have to love the "lovable" people of the world, but the "unloveable" people as well. That's the hard part.

I must admit I find it hard to love saddam............

Scuba Pete · Nov 18, 2005

As much as I decry Shrub, I still pray for him everyday. Of course, I pray for his wisdom and that he will repent of his war mongering ways, but I still pray for him nonetheless!

You can disagree with someone and hate their ideology without actually hating them.

Ormiston · Nov 18, 2005

jgallandt said:
I understand what your saying, and I hope your right! But I do not believe I love God with all my heart, soul and mind. I do my wife and kids. And if I God came down before me and asked me to kill my wife or kids, I'd say no. (In part because I do not believe that God would ever ask me that, and if I heard a voice telling that, it would be time to visit my taylor and be fitted for a straight jacket.) Can you, or anyone in here truthfully say they love God more then their family?

I don't love God. I do love life, but I don't know if that qualifies as love. But, I don't believe it is healthy to love god(s) more than anyone. What do they need it for?

cardero · Nov 18, 2005

ALL LOVE is pure. The same LOVE you assign to chocolate ice cream or your pet dog or your children or your wife or ME is the same. The LOVE is the same; it is not any different as long as the person is sincere about their LOVE.

HELLO ITS ME: An Interview About GOD

Chapter TRUTH, LOVE and UNDERSTANDING

Pg: 137

Loving God.

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