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Abortion - is it wrong?

E

espo35

Active Member
Who created the life you are taking?

If you say YOU did....it's your call.

If you say God did....it's not.

I'm pretty old and have known many girls who had abortions.

They were never the same, afterwards..............
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
nnmartin said:
I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

I've been reading that you can have an abortion up to 24 weeks into a pregnancy , that is 6 months, seems like quite a long time into a pregnancy and the fetus is basically a person by this stage?

Some information makes out that you can abort even later than this though it's not clear whether this would be a choice or not.

Any views on this?
Click to expand...

personally i disagree with waiting that long
in fact stats show that most abortions do occur in the 1st trimester which makes perfect sense.
when we have a better grip on when a life becomes sentient i think will help determine the limit...of course there are other things to consider too...

but then again we don't protest mother nature when she decides (and i use that word loosely) when a woman has a miscarriage now do we?
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Father Heathen said:
It's alive - in the same sense that bacteria is alive. It lacks consciousness, the ability to reason and the capacity for emotion. It isn't sentient/sapient and thus not a person. If abortion is murder then washing your hands with anti-bacterial soap is a holocaust.
Click to expand...
Why don't you explain what consciousness is? If you say its physical then we know for a fact the it is eternal as matter and energy cannot be destroyed. If you say
metaphysical then why do you assume consciousness ends and begins with life in a physical body?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
nnmartin said:
I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

I've been reading that you can have an abortion up to 24 weeks into a pregnancy , that is 6 months, seems like quite a long time into a pregnancy and the fetus is basically a person by this stage?

Some information makes out that you can abort even later than this though it's not clear whether this would be a choice or not.

Any views on this?
Click to expand...

PRO CHOICE :yes:
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Walkntune said:
Why don't you explain what consciousness is? If you say its physical then we know for a fact the it is eternal as matter and energy cannot be destroyed. If you say
metaphysical then why do you assume consciousness ends and begins with life in a physical body?
Click to expand...

are you saying consciousness is eternal?
 
dawny0826

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
nnmartin said:
I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

I've been reading that you can have an abortion up to 24 weeks into a pregnancy , that is 6 months, seems like quite a long time into a pregnancy and the fetus is basically a person by this stage?

Some information makes out that you can abort even later than this though it's not clear whether this would be a choice or not.

Any views on this?
Click to expand...

On a personal level, I would not consider abortion unless it was therapeutically necessary - in the best interest of myself or the child.

Legally, I value the rights of women to do that which is in their best interest and support pro-choice legislation.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Walkntune said:
Why not? How can you say one way or the other but yes I believe our spirits are eternal.Many know it intuitively but can't be proved one way or the other.
Click to expand...

alright, lets suppose it is...
how is a physical existence contingent on it being eternal?
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
you said why not...
i said lets go with that...
so how does eternal consciousness depend on physical existence?

lets kick this idea around...
are you game?
Click to expand...
Sure but what is your understanding of physical existance as I believe all that exists is frequencies of energy and that which appears physical is nothing more than frequencies that respond to the five senses?We are aware of consciousness the same that we are of gravity.We know nothing of gravity except the effects of it we observe.In and of itself we have no toolsa to measure it. Its the same with consciousness.We observe its effects on a physical body and we say when there is no more movement the consciousness is gone.Is it really gone or just the tool we were using t observe it such as a body?
 
jamaesi

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
24 weeks stll only gives the fetus a 50-50 chance of survival. IIRC it's at 27-28 when fetus viability has better chances.

This is really besides the point, though, and I'm not really interested in getting bogged down with this. Most abortions occur in the first trimester. Limits as to when an abortion can occur are just a sneaky way of trying to ban abortion altogether, chip by chip. I'm for abortion on demand and without apology.

nnmartin said:
Couldn't you use the 'bodily autonomy' argument for legalising drugs though.

ie: it's my body and I want to smoke crack - not harming anyone else yet it's illegal.

Or how about just a quiet reefer at home occasionally - where's the bodily autonomy law there?
Click to expand...

I am for legalization of marijuana, and decriminalization of drugs. :shrug:
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Whilst the child is living inside the mother it should be her choice. After that I'd draw the line (on killing the child).
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
9Westy9 said:
Whilst the child is living inside the mother it should be her choice. After that I'd draw the line (on killing the child).
Click to expand...
Can someone else kill the baby in the womb? Should they be charged with murder or just assault on the mother?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
9Westy9 said:
Whilst the child is living inside the mother it should be her choice. After that I'd draw the line (on killing the child).
Click to expand...

here's a conundrum to solve...

a woman is on her way to get an abortion...
she gets mugged and during the struggle she has a miscarriage...
did the perpetrator commit involuntary manslaughter or not? does the court have the power to say that he did?
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Walkntune said:
Sure but what is your understanding of physical existance as I believe all that exists is frequencies of energy and that which appears physical is nothing more than frequencies that respond to the five senses?We are aware of consciousness the same that we are of gravity.
Click to expand...
You'd mostly be wrong then, unless you want to imply that conciousness is a physical phenomonan that can scientifically be analyzed.
 
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