The Trinity

Muffled · Jul 1, 2011

Shermana said:
If Jesus says "The Father is Greater than I" then it can't possibly be 1 and 1 and 1.

It would have to be something like 1 and 1.5 and .5 or 1 and 1.9 and .1 for Jesus to not be incorrect when he says "The Father is Greater than I".

And for the record, the word "Godhead" is often misused, it is olde English for "Godhede" which means "Godhood". The word is a Qualitative noun. You can see it used as a description like "Christ's godhead" in old texts. It's not an Entity but a Quality.

It is a matter of measuring the temporal against the infinite. The temporal is always less than the infinite but it is impossible to say how much. However the Spirit of God that is in Jesus is equal to the Father. However if the body no longer exists and the spirit does then it is the Father.

idav · Jul 1, 2011

Muffled said:
It is a matter of measuring the temporal against the infinite. The temporal is always less than the infinite but it is impossible to say how much. However the Spirit of God that is in Jesus is equal to the Father. However if the body no longer exists and the spirit does then it is the Father.

Sure no body then father is left. That makes sense. Adversely no body means no Jesus yet Jesus was supposedly had his own spirit since the foundation of the world. How does that work did he have two spirits in him?

Adonis65 · Jul 1, 2011

Muffled said:
As long as one perceive those entities as conceptual and not physical.

In spirit the Father, Son and Paraclete are one.

Three distinct beings, for God is not the author of confusion, nor is He a multiple personality.

The scriptures do not support your opinion.

Adonis65 · Jul 1, 2011

outhouse said:
as far as anyone knows.

next you will define prophets as miraculous, today we call them all crazy like harold camping.

Atheists are unable to distinguish between true prophets and Harold Camping.

outhouse said:
he ruled over the bishops and ruled over the bitter debate among bishops on just how divine jesus was.

"bitter debates" is the operative phrase, here. Jesus' divinity is not defined by Constantine, nor any other author of confusion.

outhouse said:
please learn the real history on the trinity. even wiki gives decent details

Please stop spreading opinions of atheists. Repent and be baptized; perhaps then you will truly undrstand the Savior.

outhouse said:
there was a holy spirit in the OT and then it magically changed to holy ghost in the NT

They are one in the same.

outhouse said:
followers of judaism today do not call god and his spirit duality, and they are the ones in my opinion that created the deity and his spirit. And they look at there god as one who can change into spirit form if im not mistaken

You are a lousy interpreter of scripture. Please stop parroting the opinions of atheists.

outhouse said:
this only became a issue when the son comes into the picture, its still highly contested today and not followed by all christians

All this useless knowledge....

kepha31 · Jul 1, 2011

Belief in the Trinity requires supernatural faith, not faith of the flesh. The doctrine of the Trinity does not go against human reason, but transcends it. One can juggle math formulae all day and it won't explain the Trinity. It is a mystery.

"... Perhaps the most common objection to the Trinity is that the numbers don’t seem to add up. Those who don’t accept the idea of a Trinity are usually under the impression that Catholics are content to say that the difficulty can be resolved by taking refuge in the "God is a mystery" argument.

Believing in a mystery does not mean believing in something that is unreasonable or illogical but rather in something you do not have the capacity to ever know completely—such as God. It isn’t something you can’t know anything about; it is something you can’t know everything about.

You’ll still need to demonstrate that the idea of three Persons and one God is not illogical. To begin, explain the difference between being and person. Being answers the question "What?" and person answers the question "Who?" For example, pointing to my mother, the question "What is she?" is answered with, "A human being." The question of "Who is she?" is answered with, "Janie."

All persons are beings, but not all beings are persons. For example, you are one being and one person. But a dog is one being and zero persons. With regard to the Trinity, there is one being, which is God, yet there are there Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is not illogical. If one were to say that there is one God and three Gods, or one Person and three Persons—that would be illogical. But one Being and three Persons is not a contradiction. ..."
How to Defend the Doctrine of the Trinity (This Rock: January 2001)

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit of of the same divine substance. They are inspeparable.

outhouse · Jul 2, 2011

Atheists are unable to distinguish between true prophets and Harold Camping.

so are theist

bitter debates" is the operative phrase, here. Jesus' divinity is not defined by Constantine, nor any other author of confusion.

wrong jesus divinity was defined by constantine

read the creed please

Please stop spreading opinions of atheists. Repent and be baptized; perhaps then you will truly undrstand the Savior

you mean, please stop telling the truth. I dont like the truth.

They are one in the same.

ask a follower of judaism that, then ask him if christianity perverted his god.

You are a lousy interpreter of scripture. Please stop parroting the opinions of atheists.

I could say the same to you, but I wont stoop to your level

All this useless knowledge....

please show me a gospel passage that teaches the trinity in detail

sojourner · Jul 2, 2011

Oak of Justice said:
The trinity is a religious belief not in line with the faith in the Lord, my Father, who sent me.I came down from heaven to do His will not my own.
The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world was to testify the truth.
I am the light of the world no one who believes in me will ever walk in darkness cause they will possess the light of life.

The Lords glory will be shelter and protection for all His people.
A king will reign justly and princes will rule rightly.

The Lord of hosts shall be exalted by his judgment, and God the Holy shall be shown holy by his justice.

Open up the gates to let in a nation that is just, one that keeps faith.
The way of the just is smooth; the path of the just is level.
When the Lord's judgment dawns upon the earth,the world's inhabitants learn justice.

A king will reign justly and princes will rule rightly.
Justice will bring about peace; right will produce calm and security.

Stop judging by appearances, judge justly.
I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because Im not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.

I am the spirit the will and the power of God. The Lord and I are One

The Lord testified to me with this scripture: When he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

Follow me and proclaim the kingdom of God.

...speaking for myself, of course.

URAVIP2ME · Jul 2, 2011

kepha31 said:
Belief in the Trinity requires supernatural faith, not faith of the flesh. The doctrine of the Trinity does not go against human reason, but transcends it. One can juggle math formulae all day and it won't explain the Trinity. It is a mystery.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit of of the same divine substance. They are inspeparable.

Isn't there a difference between blind faith [credulity] and faith based on logic and reasoning on Scripture as Jesus did?

Where did Jesus teach he was God aka trinity?

If all three are inseparable then how do you explain that Jesus had a beginning when God had No beginning?

God always existed. -Psalm 90v2.
Jesus was Not before the beginning.- John 1v1; Rev. 3v14 B
Only God existed before the beginning.

According to Rev [2v18] doesn't the resurrected heavenly glorified Jesus still think he is the 'Son' of God ?
Why would the resurrected heavenly Jesus still think he has a God over him [Rev 3v12] if he is God ?

ninerbuff · Jul 2, 2011

kepha31 said:
It is a mystery.

Lol, it's a "mystery", but somehow it's been figured out. Can you say oxymoron?

RomCat · Jul 3, 2011

1 * 1 * 1 = 1

outhouse · Jul 3, 2011

RomCat said:
1 * 1 * 1 = 1

where in the gospel does it teach that????

RomCat · Jul 3, 2011

There are three states of water: gas, liquid and ice.
Yet, all three are of one substance - water.

idav · Jul 3, 2011

RomCat said:
There are three states of water: gas, liquid and ice.
Yet, all three are of one substance - water.

We are all essentially different substances but made of the same things. Being the substance of god doesn't rely on being a particual state of that substance. Can a person share a substance with god and still be 100% human?

outhouse · Jul 3, 2011

RomCat said:
There are three states of water: gas, liquid and ice.
Yet, all three are of one substance - water.

is that what I asked of you???

ninerbuff · Jul 3, 2011

RomCat said:
There are three states of water: gas, liquid and ice.
Yet, all three are of one substance - water.

Problem here is that if you put all "substances" at one room temperature, it's one or the other not all 3 at one time.

kepha31 · Jul 4, 2011

outhouse said:
so are theist

dumb generalization

wrong jesus divinity was defined by constantine

Wrong. Jesus' divinity was demonstrated by his miracles.
Jesus' divinity was clarified at the Council of Nicae because it was challenged by the hersiarch Arius. Constantine made no rulings at that council because he was never a bishop.

read the creed please

The Apostles Creed originated with the Apostles, not Constantine 300 years later.

please show me a gospel passage that teaches the trinity in detail

It's doesn't. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not a book.

Ilisrum · Jul 4, 2011

kepha31 said:
Wrong. Jesus' divinity was demonstrated by his miracles.

Moses and Elijah and other prophets also performed miracles. Does that make them Yahweh also?

kepha31 said:
It's doesn't. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not a book.

So you're saying you put more faith in the Church than you do Jesus and God? If the Church says it, it's final? The chain of succession between Jesus and the Church is anything but solid.

outhouse · Jul 4, 2011

dumb generalization

exactlywhat theist threw at me, have a handfull of your own medicine

Wrong. Jesus' divinity was demonstrated by his miracles.

wrong, divinity and magic or fiction are a few different things

Jesus' divinity was clarified at the Council of Nicae because it was challenged by the hersiarch Arius

correct among others

Constantine made no rulings at that council because he was never a bishop

very wrong

Conatantine pulled the bishops together, it was his show.

the bishops could not reach a agreement on just how divine yeshua was so Constantine ruled and his judgement stands today.

The Apostles Creed originated with the Apostles, not Constantine 300 years later

hows about the nicean creed???
Nicene Creed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father

It's doesn't.

correct, proving the trinity is man made not gospel inspired.

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not a book

your baseless opinion only

sojourner · Jul 4, 2011

So you're saying you put more faith in the Church than you do Jesus and God? If the Church says it, it's final? The chain of succession between Jesus and the Church is anything but solid.

Well, since the church is the earthly mediator of God, I'd say that's a pretty darn good place to start.

How is the "chain of succession weak?" The church is the Body of Christ on earth. I'd say that represents a pretty strong connection, myself...

sojourner · Jul 4, 2011

correct, proving the trinity is man made not gospel inspired.

So... am I to assume that you're taking a sola scriptura stance here?

your baseless opinion only

Incorrect. Read the church fathers.

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