Should we Follow The Bible Only?

Linus said:

Like what?

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Like the book of Jasher (mentioned in Joshua 10:13), the books of Samuel the seer and Gad the seer (mentioned in 1 Chronicles 29:29), the book of Nathan the prophet and the prophesy of Ahijah the prophet (mentioned in 2 Chronicles 9:29), the book of Shemaiah the prophet the prophet (mentioned in 2 Chronicles 12:15), additional epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, the Ephesians and Laodiceans (mentioned in 1 Corinthians 5:9, Ephesians 3:3, and Collossians 4:16 respectively), another epistle of Jude (mentioned in Jude 1:3) and the prophesies of Enoch (mentioned in Jude 1:14).

jonny said:

Where does the scripture mention that "that which is perfect" is the Bible? Personally, I would interpret this to be Christ or perhaps Paul is talking about himself - when he has Charity, the pure love of Christ, or perfect love, he will be whole and have a perfect understanding of the gospel. I could also interpret these scriptures to prophesy of an Apostasy and of the restoration of the fullness of the gospel.

Convince me that he is referring to the bible because I have thought of a few other possible interpretations off the top of my head.

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No, thanks. You just go ahead and interpret that how you want to. It's a free country.

If you were really interested, you'd be looking elsewhere. I'm very sloppy at convincing people of anything --- that's God's job.

I will give you this much, though ... so you can have something else to be skeptical about:

You mentioned it may be Christ's return, not so. Paul goes on to say:

1 Corinthians 13:12 = FOR NOW WE SEE THROUGH A GLASS, DARKLY; BUT THEN [at Christ's return] FACE TO FACE: NOW I KNOW IN PART; BUT THEN [Christ's return] SHALL I KNOW EVEN AS ALSO I AM KNOWN.

Thus Verse 10 speaks of the completion of Scriptures (perfect means complete), while Verse 12 speaks of the return of Christ.

So you go ahead and pick from your smorgasbord of interpretations --- I've already eaten.

The sola scriptura debate always circles endlessly.

There are several problems with answering the question.
1) Everything in religion is subjective and intrepreted. Consider that everyone believes themselves right in what they believe. Many also believe what they believe to the superior to all others. Each person intreprets religious texts differently. The bible is the prime example. Catholics believe that their church intreprets the bible and doctrine well as do the Churches of Christ believe the same for their churches. All religious groups believe themselves privy to the absolute Truth.

2)We do not know anything with absolute certainty. Christianity is about faith. We dont know if the Bible is complete or not, but we have faith that it and doctrinal texts are complete and inspired. Again, faith is subjective.

3) Human nature also adds another dimension. Many people adherr to what was taught through childhood blindly(or not so blindly). Also we often dont want to consider we could be wrong especially in something as personal as religion. People also tend to choose a belief in which they dont have to change who they are.

Because of these and many other reasons we all intrepret the Bible and doctrine as we want to. Consider that the Pope (my subjectivity enters in: I dont believe the pope is completely inspired. I do respect the fact that Catholics do) along with Baptist and other Protestant councils(same idea as with the Pope. again I respect the fact that others do) all read the bible as they are taught and desire to.

Searcher of Light said:

The sola scriptura debate always circles endlessly.

There are several problems with answering the question.
1) Everything in religion is subjective and intrepreted. Consider that everyone believes themselves right in what they believe. Many also believe what they believe to the superior to all others. Each person intreprets religious texts differently. The bible is the prime example. Catholics believe that their church intreprets the bible and doctrine well as do the Churches of Christ believe the same for their churches. All religious groups believe themselves privy to the absolute Truth.

2)We do not know anything with absolute certainty. Christianity is about faith. We dont know if the Bible is complete or not, but we have faith that it and doctrinal texts are complete and inspired. Again, faith is subjective.

3) Human nature also adds another dimension. Many people adherr to what was taught through childhood blindly(or not so blindly). Also we often dont want to consider we could be wrong especially in something as personal as religion. People also tend to choose a belief in which they dont have to change who they are.

Because of these and many other reasons we all intrepret the Bible and doctrine as we want to. Consider that the Pope (my subjectivity enters in: I dont believe the pope is completely inspired. I do respect the fact that Catholics do) along with Baptist and other Protestant councils(same idea as with the Pope. again I respect the fact that others do) all read the bible as they are taught and desire to.

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Do you personally hold one writing to be more sacred above all others?

Yes, AV i do. I believe that the Bible sans the apocrapha and other "questionable" texts is more sacred. However, I realize this is purely my own subjective view and there is a possibility that what i believe is wrong in God's eyes. The stickler though is that we cannot know such with complete certainty in this life. This is where faith steps in.

i think other texts are useful in understanding things in the bible

in my case the Talmud and oral torah help to understand certain parts of the Torah which are more unclear w/o them...

Proverbs 30:6

Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Talking about Revelations specifically, but could possibly be applied to the entire Bible:

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part in the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book.
Revelations 22:18,19

I just though I might throw those out there; interpret them as you will.

The Bible is silent on the fate of those who die without having had the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is impossible to contradict something that isn't there in the first place.

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No it's not.

So they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.
Acts 16:20

He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16

That is just a dent in what one must do in order to be saved. The Bible makes it rather clear that if these things are not done, you will be condemned. If you've never heard of Jesus, tough luck. I know that sounds horrible, but that's the way it is.

However, in our day and age, it's almost impossible to have never heard of Jesus.

christiangirl0909 said:

Proverbs 30:6

Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

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we're not adding to his word. we're restoring to his word what has been taken away and/or lost. After that many years, to think that the Bible is exactly complete, and perfect, is rediculous.

christiangirl0909 said:

Talking about Revelations specifically, but could possibly be applied to the entire Bible:

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Yes, it's just talking about revelations, since some of the books in the Bible were written after rev., and the Bible wasn't compiled until after rev. you can't apply it to the entire bible.

christiangirl0909 said:

So they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.
Acts 16:20

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What if I happened to live in china in the year 40 ad. Do you think I would have heard about Jesus? So do you think that just a "lucky" coincidence would condemn me to hell for all of eternity? If god is a loving god, it woudn't.

christiangirl0909 said:

If you've never heard of Jesus, tough luck. I know that sounds horrible, but that's the way it is

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Of course it sounds really horrible. Do you think that's the way God is, to condemn somebody based in luck, or chance, or something of that nature?

Christiangirl0909 said:

Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar..

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I agree, but you're assuming that every revealed word ever written was found and put into one book. With that I don't agree.

Christiangirl0909 said:

However, in our day and age, it's almost impossible to have never heard of Jesus.

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You'd be surprised. I met many people on my mission in Germany who had no clue about why Christ was important. Knowing his name is not enough to have faith in him.

Christiangirl0909 said:

Proverbs 30:6

Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

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Again, God has prohibited us from taking it upon ourselves to speak in His behalf. But God has placed no such restrictions upon Himself.

Talking about Revelations specifically, but could possibly be applied to the entire Bible:

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part in the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book.
Revelations 22:18,19

I just though I might throw those out there; interpret them as you will.

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I don't see how it could possibly be talking about the entire Bible when the entire Bible didn't even exist at the time John received the book of Revelation. Furthermore, most scholars date James, 1 and 2 Peter, Jude,the three Epistles of John and the Gospel of John at about the same time (and possibly even later) than Revelation. I'm sure you wouldn't want to consider eliminating them from your Bible?

Katzpur said:

The Bible is silent on the fate of those who die without having had the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ

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No it's not.

So they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.
Acts 16:20

He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16

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So do you believe that the commandment to believe and be baptized was directed at all people or only to those who actually were in a position to believe and be baptized?

If you've never heard of Jesus, tough luck. I know that sounds horrible, but that's the way it is.

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Wow! I'm so glad I don't have to believe in a God who is so cruel. It's beyond my comprehension that He would condemn millions of people to an eternity in Hell for something that was entirely beyond their control.

However, in our day and age, it's almost impossible to have never heard of Jesus.

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Perhaps, but in many parts of the world, one could not be a Christian even if he wanted to be. In many places, children are raised to hate and fear Christianity. What choice do these children really have? For hundreds and hundreds of years after Christ, people in China, India, parts of Africa and elsewhere really didn't know about Christ. Consider the person who lived in 4th century Mongolia or in some small tribal African village in the 9th century. Don't you believe God loves them just as much as He loves you?

Kathryn

I'm taking an early American Lit. class right now and the things some early "Christians" did to the Native Americans are horrific. The thought was that the Natives were all going to hell because they had never heard of Christ and accepted his "holy sacraments." It's absolutely ludicrious to think in this way IMO. A just and fair God will provide a way for those who have not had the opportunity to hear and accept his gospel. If fact we read about it in 1 Peter 3:18-19. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison." In other words, after Christ's suffering and death, he was resurrected and went to the spirits who were not in heaven/paradise, but in prison. Why else would he do this but to give them the opportunity to accept his sacrifice and progress to heaven/paradise?

nutshell said:

A just and fair God will provide a way for those who have not had the opportunity to hear and accept his gospel.

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It would certainly seem so to me!

If fact we read about it in 1 Peter 3:18-19. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison." In other words, after Christ's suffering and death, he was resurrected and went to the spirits who were not in heaven/paradise, but in prison. Why else would he do this but to give them the opportunity to accept his sacrifice and progress to heaven/paradise?

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Interestingly, the LDS doctrine on this subject is very much in line with this belief (although we didn't just deduce it by logical extrapolation). Virtually every Christian denomination I know of believes that Christ visited the spirit prison after His death and shared His gospel with those who had lived before Him and died without knowing of His atoning sacrifice. Those who accepted His message were released from the prison where their sins were holding them captive.

There is nowhere in the Bible where there is any indication at all that the spirit prison ceased to exist after Jesus' visit there. We simply believe that it continues to exist today, and that the wicked who have died in the years since Christ's death, without having had the opportunity to accept His gospel, are being taught today -- not by Him personally, but by those who died with the knowledge of their Savior. If I live to be a hundred, I don't think I will ever understand mainstream Christianity's utter contempt of this belief.

mutshell said:

Interestingly, the LDS doctrine on this subject is very much in line with this belief (although we didn't just deduce it by logical extrapolation).

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If I'm not mistaken (and I don't think I am) nutshell is LDS.

Aqualung said:

If I'm not mistaken (and I don't think I am) nutshell is LDS.

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Well, no wonder he got it right!

Here's something I wrote earlier, AV, that maybe you could respond to, since you seemed to pass right over it last time.

Aqualung said:

When you look at the Bible, it's really incomplete. It makes so much mention of other scripture that we don't have. And look at all the denominations. Obviously it isn't all we need, if there are so many people confusing so many different doctrines. Do you think a loving Father would just let his children run around in confusion like that? Especially when the confusion is caused by his book? No. He would clearify it, with revelation, which get written down in books

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All those years, waking up early for seminary must have paid off :jiggy:

nutshell said:

All those years, waking up early for seminary must have paid off :jiggy:

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Apparently so. Welcome!