Should we Follow The Bible Only?

[Katzpur]

Katzpur, in reply to your posts:

I wouldn't mind reading and thinking about books that touch on matters the Bible is silent on, but I'm not going to believe them. Where the Bible is silent, I am silent.

I mean, if someone just wrote a book about what would have happened if Adam & Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit, wouldn't that be adding to the Bible? Not to say that the book is neccesarily wrong, but we can't be sure that it's right.

See where I'm going w/ this?

Hi, Christiangirl.

It would be adding to the Bible if someone were to simply take it upon himself to do that. However, God has placed no limitations upon Himself in that regard. In other words, He is free to reveal anything He wishes at any time.

I believe that there is only one way to know the truth of anything of a spiritual nature, and that is to ask God about it.

Kathryn

 

[Katzpur]

Before I say anything, let me say this: where the Bible is silent, we need to be silent too.

Hmmm. Where in the Bible does it say that?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 = FOR THERE IS NOT A JUST MAN ON THE EARTH, THAT DOETH GOOD, AND SINNETH NOT.

Jeremiah 17:9 = THE HEART IS DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS, AND DESPERATELY WICKED: WHO CAN KNOW IT?

Romans 1:20 = FOR THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD ARE CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD BY THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, EVEN HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD; SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.

Romans 3:10 = AS IT IS WRITTEN, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE.

Romans 3:23 = FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.

Romans 5:12 = WHEREFORE, AS BY ONE MAN SIN ENTERED INTO THE WORD, AND DEATH BY SIN; AND SO DEATH PASSED UPON ALL MEN, FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED.

I think that all these scriptures prove is that no one is perfect. So, perhaps I should rephrase my question: What will be the fate of those who die without having ever had the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ?

I don't think the Bible is silent on that, but I'd rather not say until further investigation.

I don't think the Bible is silent on it either, but it definitely doesn't provide us with any clearcut answers. Furthermore, I think it's necessary for us to know this, because it's an essential part of God's plan.

We'll never know ... since it didn't happen. Our Bible is big enough, and not everyone reads it as it is. We don't need more info. Guess: someone else would have eventually eaten it.

I disagree. I believe that with a more complete understanding of God's Plan of Salvation, we would realize how essential the fall of Adam really was to our existence.

Kathryn

 

[Katzpur]

1. For me jesus said "noone comes to the father but through me" so I'm afraid I'm option 1 there

From your perspective, option 1 would make total sense. However, many Christians are not comfortable with the idea that a loving, merciful God would allow His only begotten Son die for billions who were just going to be condemned to Hell regardless. Consequently, they devise a loophole for Him. He doesn't need a loophole. A fuller understanding of His Plan allows for both mercy and justice, and doesn't need to comprise either one.

2. Don't know.

I do.

3. We would never understand the difference between good and evil, therefore meaning we would all go to heaven. (knowing the difference between good and evil determines whether or not you can 'judged'.)

Wrong. We wouldn't even be here.

Kathryn

 

[jonny]

I'd like to know where in the Bible it says that God is finished giving inspiration, calling prophets, and revealing truth to those who believe in him. Since the Bible didn't exist when the books of the Bible were written it is unlikely that it would contain such a "promise."

 

[michel]

Hmmm. Where in the Bible does it say that?

Deuteronomy 29:29 = THE SECRET THINGS BELONG UNTO THE LORD OUR GOD: BUT THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE REVEALED BELONG UNTO US AND TO OUR CHILDREN FOREVER, THAT WE MAY DO ALL THE WORKS OF THIS LAW.

I think that all these scriptures prove is that no one is perfect.

Much, much more that that. If I told you I had an apple that was desperately spoiled, would you think that what I was simply saying was that it wasn't perfect?

So, perhaps I should rephrase my question: What will be the fate of those who die without having ever had the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ?

They will be judged righteously.

I don't think the Bible is silent on it either, but it definitely doesn't provide us with any clearcut answers. Furthermore, I think it's necessary for us to know this, because it's an essential part of God's plan.

I very seriously doubt that. All we need to know is that we have a spirit, not when it was created. IMHO, I believe the angels were created before the Earth - (Job 38:6-7).

I disagree. I believe that with a more complete understanding of God's Plan of Salvation, we would realize how essential the fall of Adam really was to our existence.

You're question was, if Adam hadn't eaten. I know what the major implications of the Fall are:

• Sin entered the world --- and death by sin --- we aren't sinners because we sin, we sin because we're sinners
• 2nd Law of Thermodynamics set in operation --- (Entropy)

 

[michel]

I'd like to know where in the Bible it says that God is finished giving inspiration, calling prophets, and revealing truth to those who believe in him. Since the Bible didn't exist when the books of the Bible were written it is unlikely that it would contain such a "promise."

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 = CHARITY NEVER FAILETH, BUT WHETHER THEY BE PROPHECIES, THEY SHALL FAIL; WHETHER THERE BE TONGUES, THEY SHALL CEASE; WHETHER THERE BE KNOWLEDGE, IT SHALL VANISH AWAY. FOR WE KNOW IN PART, AND WE PROPHECY IN PART. BUT WHEN THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME [completed Scriptures - 96 AD], THEN THAT WHICH IS IN PART SHALL BE DONE AWAY.

 

[Katzpur]

Deuteronomy 29:29 = THE SECRET THINGS BELONG UNTO THE LORD OUR GOD: BUT THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE REVEALED BELONG UNTO US AND TO OUR CHILDREN FOREVER, THAT WE MAY DO ALL THE WORKS OF THIS LAW.

I couldn't agree more. It's just that I believe He has revealed more to us than you do.

Much, much more that that. If I told you I had an apple that was desperately spoiled, would you think that what I was simply saying was that it wasn't perfect?

Of course not. But there are people in the Bible who were described as righteous. Psalm 34:15 states that "the eyes of the LORD are upon therighteous, and his ears are open unto their cry." In fact, in Job 1:8, Job is described as "perfect." I don't believe he was perfect in the same sense that Jesus Christ was perfect, but I think it can be arguably stated that he was "a righteous man."

They will be judged righteously.

Meaning what? The Bible specifically states that he who believes not shall be damned. Is that your idea of a righteous judgment?

Note to SnaleSpace: Remember that "loophole" I mentioned?

I very seriously doubt that. All we need to know is that we have a spirit, not when it was created. IMHO, I believe the angels were created before the Earth - (Job 38:6-7).

You can doubt it if you wish. It's not going to be your damnation; it simply makes God's entire plan more understandable. I, too, believe the angels were created before the Earth. Furthermore, I believe that we were those angels.

You're question was, if Adam hadn't eaten. I know what the major implications of the Fall are:

• Sin entered the world --- and death by sin --- we aren't sinners because we sin, we sin because we're sinners

I see. Now being born is a sin.

• 2nd Law of Thermodynamics set in operation --- (Entropy)

You'll have to explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics to me. And while you're at it, give me a chapter and verse. I know you'll be able to do that because all truth is in the Bible -- even the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.


Kathryn

 

[ChrisP]

Wrong. We wouldn't even be here.
Kathryn

\

My first instinct there was "meanie". Then I realised that along with the fruit came the knowledge of procreation. I hear the Pagans among us chanting happily

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[ChrisP]

You'll have to explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics to me.


Kathryn

"Everything that is orderly, will become disorderly." When I was a teenager that was my excuse for not tidying up

 

[michel]

I couldn't agree more. It's just that I believe He has revealed more to us than you do.

We both have the same source: the King James Bible. You may be more "read up" on it than I, but it is the exact same amount of information available to all of us.

Of course not. But there are people in the Bible who were described as righteous. Psalm 34:15 states that "the eyes of the LORD are upon therighteous, and his ears are open unto their cry." In fact, in Job 1:8, Job is described as "perfect." I don't believe he was perfect in the same sense that Jesus Christ was perfect, but I think it can be arguably stated that he was "a righteous man."

Matthew 5:48 = BE YE PERFECT, EVEN AS YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.

Philippians 3:15 = LET US THEREFORE, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, BE THUS MINDED: AND IF IN ANY THING YE BE OTHERWISE MINDED, GOD SHALL REVEAL EVEN THIS UNTO YOU.

How do we get perfect? Through faith in Jesus, Who will make us perfect in a 3-stage program: Initial Sanctification --- Progressive Sanctification --- Complete Sanctification.

Meaning what? The Bible specifically states that he who believes not shall be damned. Is that your idea of a righteous judgment?

Give God the credit for that --- He said it --- that settles it. --- whether I want to believe it or not.

You can doubt it if you wish. It's not going to be your damnation; it simply makes God's entire plan more understandable. I, too, believe the angels were created before the Earth. Furthermore, I believe that we were those angels.

You're going to be hard-pressed to explain that in light of the fact that they existed prior to the 2nd day of Creation. Man --- a tripartite being --- wasn't created until Day 6.

I see. Now being born is a sin.

Just because we are born in sin doesn't make being born a sin. No more than a Rambler being made with Audi seats makes is a foreign car.

You'll have to explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics to me. And while you're at it, give me a chapter and verse. I know you'll be able to do that because all truth is in the Bible -- even the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

• All matter in the universe is losing energy after it does some work. In other words, it's not being replenished fully after it empties itself. Thus the Universe is in a constant state of decay, as the overall temperature of the Universe is approaching a uniform temperature. When that happens, then "work", which occurs when two objects of different temperature interact, will cease.
• Romans 8:20-22 = FOR THE CREATURE [creation] WAS MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY [entropy], NOT WILLINGLY, BUT BY REASON OF HIM [Adam] WHO HATH SUBJECT THE SAME IN HOPE, BECAUSE THE CREATURE [creation] ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED FROM THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION [entropy] INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. FOR WE KNOW THAT THE WHOLE CREATION GROANETH AND TRAVAILETH IN PAIN [entropy] TOGETHER UNTIL NOW.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Katzpur,

Let me rephrase what I said in my last post. I was having some problems putting what I wanted to say into words last night.

If someone wrote a book about what would have happened if Adam & Eve hadn't eaten the fruit, and said "This is absolutely right, no doubt about it, and if you think this is wrong, it's a sin" there's no way we could believe that book.

But if someone was just writing their theories down, it would be fine to read it and speculate on it. I might come to think that that could possibly be true, or that makes the most sense to me. but I could never believe completely in something about Christianity that isn't in the Bible.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Oh, forgot to mention this:

Everthing we need to know is in the Bible already. I know that we as humans are very curious, but don't be troubled to much by what isn't there.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur,

Let me rephrase what I said in my last post. I was having some problems putting what I wanted to say into words last night.

Christiangirl,

Actually, I understood what you meant last night. You explained your position very well.

If someone wrote a book about what would have happened if Adam & Eve hadn't eaten the fruit, and said "This is absolutely right, no doubt about it, and if you think this is wrong, it's a sin" there's no way we could believe that book.

I'm with you there. There are individuals within my own denomination who have written books or made statements that we are free to either believe or not. People are entitled to their opinions. Their opinions may be correct; they may be incorrect. One way or the other, they are opinions only, and not the word of God.

But if someone was just writing their theories down, it would be fine to read it and speculate on it. I might come to think that that could possibly be true, or that makes the most sense to me. but I could never believe completely in something about Christianity that isn't in the Bible.

And that's where we differ. Because I believe that, while the Bible is God's word, it is not the sole source we have for His word. In other words, I believe He has revealed more to us than is contained within the pages of the Bible. And what He has revealed is every bit as true as what's in the Bible. It doesn't contradict anything in the Bible. It just provides us with information that the Bible doesn't touch on.

Kathryn

 

[Katzpur]

Oh, forgot to mention this:

Everthing we need to know is in the Bible already. I know that we as humans are very curious, but don't be troubled to much by what isn't there.

But you see, the Bible doesn't even make this claim for itself. I'm not troubled by what's missing from the Bible, but I am open to truth wherever it may be found. God is not limited to one book, in my opinion.

 

[joeboonda]

The Bible IS the only book for me! Beware, for it is appointed once for man to die and after that the judgement. You are very dangerous, leading people to believe they can be saved in the next life if they do not get it right in this life. Shame, shame! Blasphemy of blashpemies! We must be born again here and now, no second chances, this is pure bible doctrine, do not add to it, do not contradict the Bible with 'other' inspired sources, shame! You are leading millions straight to a burning Hell with your Mormon doctrine! Repent! or these curses will be added to YOU!

 

[jonny]

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 = CHARITY NEVER FAILETH, BUT WHETHER THEY BE PROPHECIES, THEY SHALL FAIL; WHETHER THERE BE TONGUES, THEY SHALL CEASE; WHETHER THERE BE KNOWLEDGE, IT SHALL VANISH AWAY. FOR WE KNOW IN PART, AND WE PROPHECY IN PART. BUT WHEN THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME [completed Scriptures - 96 AD], THEN THAT WHICH IS IN PART SHALL BE DONE AWAY.

Where does the scripture mention that "that which is perfect" is the Bible? Personally, I would interpret this to be Christ or perhaps Paul is talking about himself - when he has Charity, the pure love of Christ, or perfect love, he will be whole and have a perfect understanding of the gospel. I could also interpret these scriptures to prophesy of an Apostasy and of the restoration of the fullness of the gospel.

Convince me that he is referring to the bible because I have thought of a few other possible interpretations off the top of my head.

 

[Aqualung]

But if someone was just writing their theories down, it would be fine to read it and speculate on it. I might come to think that that could possibly be true, or that makes the most sense to me. but I could never believe completely in something about Christianity that isn't in the Bible.

When you look at the Bible, it's really incomplete. It makes so much mention of other scripture that we don't have. And look at all the denominations. Obviously it isn't all we need, if there are so many people confusing so many different doctrines. Do you think a loving Father would just let his children run around in confusion like that? Especially when the confusion is caused by his book? No. He would clearify it, with revelation, which get written down in books.

You are leading millions straight to a burning Hell with your Mormon doctrine! Repent! or these curses will be added to YOU!

That's rather inflamatory. I don't think any mormon has ever told you you were going to hell.

 

[Linus]

When you look at the Bible, it's really incomplete. It makes so much mention of other scripture that we don't have.

Like what?

 

[Aqualung]

I'll give you a link.

http://scriptures.lds.org/tgs/scrptrsl

 

[Katzpur]

The Bible IS the only book for me!

And that's entirely fine with me. I respect your right to your opinion.

Beware, for it is appointed once for man to die and after that the judgement. You are very dangerous, leading people to believe they can be saved in the next life if they do not get it right in this life.

I'm sorry you feel this way, joeboonda. I believe that God loves all of His children equally. You and I have been blessed to have known of the gospel of Jesus Christ during our lifetimes. Millions of good people were not as fortunate I we are. How is giving them the same opportunity you and I have had "dangerous"?

Shame, shame! Blasphemy of blashpemies!

Calm down. We have a difference of opinion here and nothing more. Certainly not anything to get all worked up over.

We must be born again here and now, no second chances, this is pure bible doctrine, do not add to it, do not contradict the Bible with 'other' inspired sources, shame!

And no first chances for some, evidently. Please tell me how my belief contradicts the Bible. The Bible is silent on the fate of those who die without having had the opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is impossible to contradict something that isn't there in the first place.

You are leading millions straight to a burning Hell with your Mormon doctrine! Repent! or these curses will be added to YOU!

I am not leading anybody anywhere, joeboonda. All men and women are free to choose for themselves. You obviously believe I have far more influence on the eternal destinies of millions than I really do.

I believe that you are the one who needs to repent. I have done nothing but state my own beliefs. You are the one who has taken it upon himself to pass judgment. I would very much appreciate an apology. We do not need to agree on everything in order to respect one another's beliefs.

Kathryn