Pathway to Salvation

Murphthesurf that picture make me laugh, jajjajaj it looks good.
would not all that you have referred to fit in the list, but I do think many cant see what each of those steps entail, some hearts can only understand the words not the depth. good thread

some truths, invite the spiritual war many dont realize is happening, and yes the word hell causes different inner feeling and inner needed denial, that is what I have seen, and if she lost them well thats normal.

MurphtheSurf said:

Here's how I see it.

1. Recognizing your spiritual need. Matthew 5:3
2. Taking in accurate knowledge of God and Christ. John 17:3 Ephesians 1:17-18
3. Applying accurate knowledge. Ephesians 4:24
4. Living your life in accordance to ALL scripture, which will lead to............
5. Bearing the fruits of the spirit. Galatians 5:22
6. Evangelizing and having an active part in it. 2 Timothy 4:5, Romans 10:15
7. Dedication to be a slave to God, doing his will. Matthew 7:21
8. Symbolized by water baptism. Luke 3:3
9. Enduring to the end. Matthew 24:13

As you might imagine, it could take a little more work than just saying that you are saved.

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I agree 100% with all of that. I was really hoping to get into the scripture of them one at a time, but the thread kind of blew up on me for a while. Nicely done!

luvuyesua said:

Murphthesurf that picture make me laugh, jajjajaj it looks good.
would not all that you have referred to fit in the list, but I do think many cant see what each of those steps entail, some hearts can only understand the words not the depth. good thread

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Yeah, alot of people like that picture.

Nice thread. I've enjoyed reading every comment.

I quoted Jesus, was he telling the truth, if you forgive others, you will be forgiven?

That was his message, over and over again.

He never said you have to believe he is God, sin atonement sacrifice.

Luke 2:52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

sandy whitelinger said:

It would seem that perhaps Pascal's Wager might be a better choice for you since following a Biblical path also leads to betterment and the possible rewards are greater.

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Tried it. Wasn't for me.

keeperoftheprison said:

I do see your point to a degree. God to me is an infinite being. In the beginning that was a stretch to me. However, more of a stretch (to me ) is thinking that matter and the universe never had a beginning. In my mind God creating the universe gives everything a start. That means only one thing out of my grasp of understanding. If the universe just was and nothing created it, then everyone has alot more reaching for understanding to do.
As for scientists that believe in this theory... I'm not even convinced that they can ever get carbon dating correct. Scientists also have different stances on global warming. I can not put my faith in science because it has proven too shaky.
I do however see where you are coming from with this theory and am ready to discuss this in more detail.

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With all due respect, why is thinking that the universe always existed more of a stretch than believing that God always existed?

We have verifiable proof that the universe exists now. The universe and its natural laws are testable: they're quantifiable and qualifiable. On the other hand, no one has yet been able to prove that God in fact does exist. Yet, you are making the leap that not only does God exist but He has always existed. And conversely, the universe which we know currently exists, which we can measure and verify, you believe at one time in fact it did not exist.

And then you are prepared to judge the scientists who propose steady state universe theories to be lacking in understanding, or at least you believe anyone who finds merit in these or similar theories has "more understanding to do". And furthermore, you find all of science to be "shaky", yet you are apparently prepared to place "faith" in a God you can't even prove conclusively through critical reasoning or empirical evidence.

I certainly mean no disrespect, but when you step back and look at this from another's perspective, do you not see how this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Seriously. I am not trying to insult you, I simply want you to understand how this sort of persepctive completely baffles someone like me.

Eliot Wild said:

With all due respect, why is thinking that the universe always existed more of a stretch than believing that God always existed?

We have verifiable proof that the universe exists now. The universe and its natural laws are testable: they're quantifiable and qualifiable. On the other hand, no one has yet been able to prove that God in fact does exist. Yet, you are making the leap that not only does God exist but He has always existed. And conversely, the universe which we know currently exists, which we can measure and verify, you believe at one time in fact it did not exist.

And then you are prepared to judge the scientists who propose steady state universe theories to be lacking in understanding, or at least you believe anyone who finds merit in these or similar theories has "more understanding to do". And furthermore, you find all of science to be "shaky", yet you are apparently prepared to place "faith" in a God you can't even prove conclusively through critical reasoning or empirical evidence.

I certainly mean no disrespect, but when you step back and look at this from another's perspective, do you not see how this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Seriously. I am not trying to insult you, I simply want you to understand how this sort of persepctive completely baffles someone like me.

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Good post

keeperoftheprison said:

I have answered all of the questions that I have seen you ask.

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I asked you the religion of your family of origin, and where you grew up.

Most of the time you aren't asking questions. You are jumping around. I dont mind discussing my beliefs obviously because I hope it brings someone to the path to salvation.

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Great. So why so touchy then?
Of course, you have to open yourself to the possibility that it is your beliefs that will change.

I bring up your beliefs because you stated that you believed the universe "always was and always will be". You said you believed this because of logic. I dont see any logic in that and was just getting a clarification. I can't seem to see it and was trying to get to the bottom of it.

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It's not that hard a concept. Well, I guess infinity is always difficult to imagine. The basic concept is that there is so much matter/energy in the universe, and it changes form, but never comes into existence or goes out of existence.

At a minimum, you cannot assume that it did--we really don't know and may never know--so your first argument for the existence of God fails.

"The Big Bang" was originally a pejorative (reductio ad absurdum) term to insult the religious suggestion that the universe started at one point in time.



Now, it's a 'given' scientifically, and somehow the origin of the idea has been stripped from religion.

Obviously, the world was made by God.

And God was made by Super God.

keeperoftheprison said:

I do see your point to a degree. God to me is an infinite being. In the beginning that was a stretch to me. However, more of a stretch (to me ) is thinking that matter and the universe never had a beginning.

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Well it's the exact same idea, only switch "universe" for "God."

In my mind God creating the universe gives everything a start. That means only one thing out of my grasp of understanding.

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Who gave God a start?

If the universe just was and nothing created it, then everyone has alot more reaching for understanding to do.

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Yes, that's what science is for.

As for scientists that believe in this theory...

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What theory?

I'm not even convinced that they can ever get carbon dating correct.

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You mean radiometric dating, and you are not convinced because you don't understand it or know much about it.

Scientists also have different stances on global warming.

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No, that's just PR. There is very little different of opinion about it.

I can not put my faith in science because it has proven too shaky.

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(emphasis added)

This is what I would like to discuss. One of the main problems with some modern religionists is their rejection of science. This is a reversion, a rejection of the progress science has brought us, in favor of an ancient, superstitious approach to understanding the world. It is dangerous, destructive and wrong.

Of course, the people who say this don't usually mean it. They're happy to enjoy all the benefits of modern science. They're content using their computer to explain that they don't trust science. They certainly avail themselves of the benefits of medical science. So they actually have a lot of faith in science--until it bumps up against their religious mythology. Then suddenly they turn around and kick it in the teeth.

Autodidact said:

I have no idea, it's the OP's religion, not mine.

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Yet you posited the scenario. I don't see a correlation between the two in Christianity.

Autodidact said:

Is there an established correlation between vegetable consumption and religious belief?

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None but it seemed as relevant to me as your first two questions.

Autodidact said:

I have some money in a bank account in Nigeria...

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There are banks in Nigeria?

keeperoftheprison said:

Did you ever think that worshiping God and doing the things he said to do actually helps you improve yourself?

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Improving oneself is obtainable whether one is Christian or not. the difference is that any man-made change is unacceptable to God. The problem here is a confusion between the issues of being good and getting to heaven.

sandy whitelinger said:

Are you assuming that God can't love and condemn at the same time?

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waitasec said:

is god your heavenly father?

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Is that an answer to my question?

keeperoftheprison said:

I have answered all of the questions that I have seen you ask.

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When are you going to answer the questions I asked?

Shyanekh said:

Tried it. Wasn't for me.

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Fair enough, it is flawed logic anyway. One of the problems, as seen through Christianity, is trying to better ones-self with out the transforming power of the Holy Spirit is that the change is unacceptable to God.

sandy whitelinger said:

None but it seemed as relevant to me as your first two questions.

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You are mistaken. There is an extremely strong correlation between one's childhood religious indoctrination, the dominant religion where the child was raised, and adult religious belief.