Can it be right to hate sometimes?

michel · Jun 26, 2005

This appeared as a question on 'Heaven and Earth' (TV programme in UK)

This week the Government pushed its legislation outlawing "religious hatred" a stage further through the House of Commons - but is hatred always wrong?

Many people, including those with religious beliefs, say "hatred" is wrong. It's a negative emotion that leads to aggression and violence, and it can do enormous damage - to its victims, and its perpetrators.

But can it be right to hate sometimes? Aren't we morally obliged to hate dictators who murder - like Hitler, or Stalin - and to act on that hate? So, can hate be good? What do you believe?

Mister Emu · Jun 26, 2005

Me again

No, hate is never "ok" when directed on an entity, it is a disease that erodes your mind and emotions.

We can hate the actions, and we can take actions so as to halt the aforementioned hated actions. Yet, if we hate the person we are liable to become that which we hated.

michel · Jun 26, 2005

Mister Emu said:
Me again

No, hate is never "ok" when directed on an entity, it is a disease that erodes your mind and emotions.

We can hate the actions, and we can take actions so as to halt the aforementioned hated actions. Yet, if we hate the person we are liable to become that which we hated.

Do you often play table tennis? hehehehe - of course I agree with you; you could have drawn it out a bit. Oh well, thinking cap on again.:biglaugh:

Mister Emu · Jun 26, 2005

Do you often play table tennis?

I like it

, but i don't get out to play it enough

hehehehe - of course I agree with you; you could have drawn it out a bit. Oh well, thinking cap on again.:biglaugh:

Watcher · Jun 26, 2005

michel said:
But can it be right to hate sometimes? Aren't we morally obliged to hate dictators who murder - like Hitler, or Stalin - and to act on that hate? So, can hate be good? What do you believe?

Hate isn't always good, but it isn't always bad. It's just another emotion, like love or fear. It is just as unhealthy to hate something with a deep intensity as it is to love someone (or something) with the same depth.

Uncertaindrummer · Jun 26, 2005

Hate is useful--hating sin is necessary. We just over-do everything and start hating other things as well.

michel · Jun 26, 2005

Uncertaindrummer said:
Hate is useful--hating sin is necessary. We just over-do everything and start hating other things as well.

O.K, I understand hating sin is necessary; I don't understand the next sentence; could you expand, please?

Uncertaindrummer · Jun 26, 2005

michel said:
O.K, I understand hating sin is necessary; I don't understand the next sentence; could you expand, please?

For instance, hating the evil actions of a man such as Hitler is good and should be done. We, beign the extremists we are, always take things like that too far, and starts hating the PERSON. Now I do not believe hating a person is ever justified, although it is often quite tempting. Hating evil actions is worthy, but if we begin to hate PEOPLE we start to lsoe sight of the fact that they too can be redeemed, and instead of trying to save them, convert them, turn them into good people, we start to wish ill of them, and that is obviously not good.

stemann · Jun 26, 2005

Damn, I wish I'd been alive in 1939, I could have stopped all that nastiness and the deaths of approximately 52 million people if I had explained to Herr Hitler that he just wasn't being nice- I could have saved him and made a good man of him.

Some people can't be reached or redeemed (think psychopaths). Not that Hitler couldn't, but he wasn't about to not invade Europe; he thought what he was doing was right. Wasn't he a Christian or something?

Simon the Cat · Jun 26, 2005

I don't think hate is right or acceptable ever but than again -hate is a little like donuts. Donuts has absolutely no nutritional value - no one needs a donut -ever - to sustain them but yet there are many, many places to buy and eat donuts and we all probably eat donuts sometimes or another. I think hate works the same way - although there are many things that may tempt us to hate - it is never necessary (nuttritionally or otherwise) - and no amount of rationalizing will make it acceptable. On the other hand- probably no amount of boycotting will get rid of it throughout the world either - much like donuts

Shadow Wolf · Jun 26, 2005

If you can control the hate, it is ok. But when it goes uncontrolled, that is when bad things happen.

Mister Emu · Jun 26, 2005

Wasn't he a Christian or something?

No, he wasn't.

Uncertaindrummer · Jun 26, 2005

stemann said:
Damn, I wish I'd been alive in 1939, I could have stopped all that nastiness and the deaths of approximately 52 million people if I had explained to Herr Hitler that he just wasn't being nice- I could have saved him and made a good man of him.

Some people can't be reached or redeemed (think psychopaths). Not that Hitler couldn't, but he wasn't about to not invade Europe; he thought what he was doing was right. Wasn't he a Christian or something?

I am not saying he ever WOULD have changed--but you have to leave open the possibility that any given human can do good. As soon as you give up on that possibility, we are guilty of something just as bad as Hitler. If we were to hate Hitler, what would be the difference between our hate and Hitler's hate of the Jews? Obviously we can hate his evil actions but that is entirely different.

Melody · Jun 26, 2005

michel said:
But can it be right to hate sometimes? Aren't we morally obliged to hate dictators who murder - like Hitler, or Stalin - and to act on that hate? So, can hate be good? What do you believe?

No, I don't think it's ok to hate. Hate is a destructive emotion. You can come to a rational decision to act without hate but I think when hate is involved, rational thinking goes out the window and actions become justified instead.

Uncertaindrummer · Jun 26, 2005

I also think the definition of hate being used could help; if hate means "strongly dislike", that is one thing, but if it means "to wish terrible thigns upon something" it can be quite different.

Orthodox · Jun 27, 2005

This is the way I see it....

If you love anything, you must hate its opposite. If you love freedom and liberty, you MUST hate slavery (unless, of course, you wish to contradict yourself).

I think it is wrong to hate somebody, but equally wrong not to hate somethings (racism, murder etc - I'm a moral absolutist after all....

).

EnhancedSpirit · Jun 27, 2005

We read in Proverbs 6:16-19 of seven things God hates: "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." The child of God should likewise hate these sinful characteristics of the fallen nature and be angry at seeing them displayed. This is righteous anger and is not sin. The following is cut and pasted from http://www.chicagobible.org/emotions_3.htm

McClintock and Strongs Encyclopedia defines hate as "the emotion of instant displeasure, which arises from the feeling of injury done, or the discovery of injury intended, or, in many cases, from the discovery of the omission of good offices to which we supposed ourselves entitled."

This portion of the definition applies uniquely to us. Notice that it frequently stems from pride! It arises from not necessarily injury actually done but from a feeling of injury intended, or the omission from an honor or position of which we thought ourselves worthy. That should give us great reason to ponder our right to be angry.

Two Types of Emotions

We are told that there are two basic types of human emotions, based on their effect upon the body. The first group includes those that result in over stimulation of various parts of the body: an over stimulation, via the nervous system, of any organ or any muscle or of one or more of the endocrine glands. This over stimulation produces an unpleasant feeling. Anger, anxiety, fear, discouragement, grief, and dissatisfaction are just a few in this category.

The second group includes those emotions whose manifestations in the body are an optimal (or most favorable) stimulation. These emotions give us a pleasant feeling or a sense of well being. Among these are hope, joy, courage, affection, love, agreeableness, and many others. Would any classify emotions of this sort a sin? Of course not, and yet these are also emotions, as are anger and fear.

That emotions are reactions to stimuli is borne out in the origin of the Hebrew words for anger. Half a dozen Hebrew words are translated "anger," and they all seem to deal with external signs of body reaction to stimulus. One is "to breathe hard," an obvious external sign of anger. Another is "nostril," which flares out when one is angry. Another means to "glow," or grow warm, and yet another means to "froth at the mouth."

Manifestations of Human Anger

Some of the external manifestations of the emotion of anger are a reddening of the skin of the face, a widening of the eyelids, bloodshot whites of the eyes, contraction and tightening of the lips, a setting of the jaw, a clenching of the fists, a tremor in the arms, and often in the voice. The onlooker can detect a state of anger immediately upon seeing anyone with such manifestations.

However, the internal manifestations are much more profound and remarkable. When people become angry, their blood will clot much, much quicker. This is a natural defense mechanism, because emotional reaction often implies a fight, and a wound or wounds, so blood clotting becomes necessary to minimize blood loss.

Another similarly valuable manifestation is that the number of blood cells in the circulating blood increases dramatically. Also, the muscles at the outlet of the stomach squeeze down so tightly that nothing can leave the stomach during anger. The entire digestive tract becomes so spastic that many people have severe abdominal pains during or after a fit of anger. The heart rate goes up markedly during anger, often to 180 or 220, and even higher, and will remain there until the anger has passed. The blood pressure will go up from a normal of 130 to 230 or more, and in anger, the coronary arteries will squeeze down, producing angina pains.

Obviously anyone who undergoes repeated and unrestrained fits of anger also undergoes a great deal of undue stress and strain on the various parts of the body. Physical health is placed in jeopardy. As the apostle points out concerning the integral parts of the body of Christ in Ephesians 4:16, what affects one member of that body will affect other members. Would it not follow that the health of that spiritual body would also be placed in jeopardy by the uncontrolled anger of its members?

Perfect Hatred

What of Davids anger as expressed in his phrase, "I hate them with perfect hatred"? In the context we see that he is really echoing Gods statement in Proverbs and expressing his hatred for all things wicked in the sight of God. He concludes this psalm by saying, "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if [there be any] wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting" (vs. 23, 24).

Think of Davids experience with Bathsheba and the lengths to which he was willing to go to have her for his own. It seems beyond reason that he went to the point of having her husband murdered. That is exactly the issue here! It is beyond reason! Love, hate, anger are all beyond reason because they are emotions! After the parable that Nathan recited to him, can we not readily assume that David examined himself and found wickedness in his own character that was beyond his control? Perhaps it was exactly this kind of wickedness that he hated with "a perfect hatred!"

Fluffy · Jun 27, 2005

See my article on the requirements of morality. In my opinion, stating that hatred is wrong violates the first two principles.

1) There is no human input, it is merely something that might induce a human reaction. These two should not be confused.
2) Hatred is not capable of rational thought nor does enable a person under its influence of rational thought.

This links in to my feelings about paedophilia (a feeling) and child molestation (an act) as well as all other thoughts, ideas and emotions.

Scuba Pete · Jun 27, 2005

There are many actions that I hate.

There are many conditions that I hate.

I do not hate humans.

BTW, I really, really, really (I mean really, really, really) hate sea lice. This might be God's one and only faux pas.

michel · Jun 27, 2005

Uncertaindrummer said:
I also think the definition of hate being used could help; if hate means "strongly dislike", that is one thing, but if it means "to wish terrible thigns upon something" it can be quite different.

Hate: - O.E. hatian "to hate," from P.Gmc. *khatojanan (cf. O.S. haton, O.N. hata, Ger. hassen, Goth. hatan "to hate"), from PIE base *kedes- "feel strongly" (cf. Avestan sadra- "grief, sorrow, calamity," Gk. kedos "care, trouble, sorrow," Welsh cas "pain, anger"). The noun is O.E. hete "hatred, spite," from P.Gmc. *khatis-, altered in M.E. to conform
with the verb. Hate mail is first attested 1967.

The only association in there that I don't like is 'spite' and spite is a shortened version of Malice, which is:-

1297, "desire to hurt another," from O.Fr. malice "ill will, spite," from L. malitia "badness, ill will, spite," from malus "bad." In legal use, "wrongful intent generally" (1547). Malicious (c.1225) is O.Fr. malicius "showing ill will," from L. maliciosus "full of malice," from malitia.

So, as far as i ca see, as long as we are not spiteful in our hatred, thre is nothing wrong in hatred per se. As E.H demonstrated in her post, G-d hates; I think maybe this is another of the "hate the sin, but not the sinner" situations.

P.S thank you E.S - fruballs to you.

Can it be right to hate sometimes?

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