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Are the "Jews" real Jews?
- Thread starter Monomonk
- Start date
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
Oh, that's only a small part of it - there are many more visual images and symbolic facts of the Torah and Tanakh that point directly to Jesus the Messiah.
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
Of course, but again, that's just one aspect. There are many more visuals, and symbolic clues, that easily lead to understanding Jesus is the center of all these prophecies.
One small example. There was a requirement that the Brazen altar was to be covered in a purple cloth when transported (Num 4:13). When Jesus was tried the Roman soldiers platted a crown of thorns on His head and put a purple robe on Him (John 19:2, 5). Chance? Happenstance? Coincidence?
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
No, I'm saying they hate the "only begotten Son of God" and deny His existence. They refuse to see the truth of the Gospels in favor of clinging to there false "Talmudic" traditions.
Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me.
Nothings changed.
Wait a minute; so now you're saying that sometimes when you say "Jesus" you mean God (or else everything you said about Jesus being in the OT doesn't make any sense), and sometimes you mean "the only begotten Son of God" (which is obviously a demotion otherwise why make the distinction?).
How is anyone supposed to know what definition you're using at any given moment?
If you're going to use the "Jesus is God therefore the whole Bible is about Jesus" argument, you really should stick to it. If your definition changes according to your convenience, than for the sake of communication, as well as for the sake of lending any credibility to whatever point you're trying to make, neither definition means anything.
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
They "believe" in a God. They deny the other vital aspects of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob namely His Son and His Holy Spirit. All of which are clearly evident from scripture. Even demons believe "in God" so believing "in God" is no sign of "belief" in God, His law, His Words, and His Love.
I haven't altered my belief nor anything I've said.
One cannot discuss, nor intelligently talk about God while at the same time denying the obvious aspects of God's nature and character which includes the aspect of His Son and His Holy Spirit.
Rabbinic and strict Orthodox Jews and even some Messianics believe that "God" and the "Lord" in the Bible are "The God," the "One" God, yet miss the fact that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" is Jesus Christ. I have no doubt these folks believe "in God" they just have no idea of that the aspect of God that they believe in is Jesus Christ. They "deny" this aspect of God which is a huge shame.
But, I keep trying.
The quotation marks in this sentence nullifies anything you might have to say about Rabbinic Jews and what they believe.
You say they believe in "a" God. Meaning, apparently, that the God they believe in is something different from the God you believe in.
In any case we're not talking about them at this point, we're examining something you've already said;
You've made it clear that when you say "Jesus" you mean "God".
You've also said "Rabbinic Jews hate Jesus".
So obviously this was meant to convey the idea that Rabbinic Jews hate God.
No, but at this point you're trying to cover up a fair bit of what you've said, even to the point of refining your definitions after the fact.
You didn't say "deny", you said "hate".
How can someone hate someone who's existence they deny?
To me, it doesn't sound like you're trying to present Rabbinic Jews as misinformed or unenlightened.
It sounds like you're trying to paint them as evil.
RND
Seventh-day Adventist
At least get the quote marks right. I said, "They "believe" in a God." Lots of people "believe" in God or a God. Yet do nothing for Him.
Meaning they don't believe in Jesus Christ.
Right. Jesus in God.
Yes, I said that.
No. They "hate" Jesus which is "one" aspect of the Godhead - the "Family" of God. It would be akin to me saying "I love you but hate your wife and son." Now, that might be very true. But, what would you think?
Not at all. I'm trying to get you to see that just because one says one thing that their actions state their beliefs.
Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? Jhn 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.
Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Right. Most "Rabbinic Jews" hate Jesus Christ.
Jhn 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
Because they "deny" Him they "hate" Him.
I'm not.....many know the truth and deny the truth.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
They paint themselves as evil by their denials and their actions. I just present the truth.
I got them right (read the first sentence in my post). the quotation marks over the "a" were for emphasis.
The "a" before "God" in your sentence is worth noting, for the reasons I've already explained (and yes; these quotation marks are mine).
If you had meant "God", you would have just said "God" (without the "a").
By which of the two definitions for "Jesus" that you've been using thus far?
You didn't say "the aspect of Jesus in God is everywhere in the Bible" you said (repeatedly), "Jesus is everywhere in the Bible".
If you didn't think the distinction was worth making then, why are you making it now?
Yes you did.
I've never heard the trinity referred to as 3 distinct entities before. I've also never heard it said that different family members are "aspects" of each other. The comparison doesn't work.
Aside from the fact that this has nothing to do with what we're talking about, why would you think it would be necessary to point that out to anyone over the age of 5?
(back and forth, forth and back) again, which "Jesus" do you mean now?
I didn't ask you why, I asked you how.
the two words aren't interchangeable, or even close to.
I deny the existence of Unicorns. I don't hate Unicorns.
Ah, now we come to it;
Quagmire said:
prosecution rests your honor.
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Elessar
Well-Known Member
How dare you? How DARE you? That is honestly all I can say.
There is only one thing you can do with evil - fight it. No negotiations with genocidal maniacs like Adolf Hitler, who was advocating the destruction of Jews long before he came to power.
In addition, you are well off topic.
There is only one thing you can do with evil - fight it. No negotiations with genocidal maniacs like Adolf Hitler, who was advocating the destruction of Jews long before he came to power.
In addition, you are well off topic.
Elessar, listen to wisdom:
If anyone wonders why I requested the Messianic Judaism DIR forum be moved OUT of Xian forums, they need look no further than this hate filled thread. I'm almost sick to my stomach reading this evil, It's not worthy of a reply, just additions to my ignore list.
Waste of time mostly, from my experience. Not worth raising blood pressure at my age, but yer a young one, you're more resilient. Response gives too much honor to their hate IMHO. My only regret is other people don't see why I'm not responding to their lies. If enough bigots get on my list, I will list them in my sig so ppl see exactly who I'm ignoring.
AK4
Well-Known Member
Look i have no hate for no one. To be all honest the holocaust does not affect me personally so i dont really care. I think some truth throughout history has been hidden from us all or stories misconstrued. Documents that have been hidden and brought to light shows that there may have been more to the story than what is traditionally taught----and this is everywhere not just the holocaust. To deny "jews" were killed is ridiculous. To deny Hitler hated those people is ludicris. To deny written documents and hidden papers is also stupid. I search out for truth and usually if i find something that may have been contrary to what has been traditionally taught--mostly likely there is some truth to it---this has been my personal experience.
So to be blunt--i could careless what happened--- i dont like it or condone it, but it doesnt really affect me either. So if you think im some sort of hater and "racist" fine you can have your opinion.
Want to know what the word goyim means? Well let me tell you: it means cattle.
If you are not Jewish, this is what Jews think of you: you are nothing but an animal!
You know what they do to cattle? They slaughter them! They, the "Jews" can do
anything they want to you, and in their minds it is OK, but cause you are nothing but
an animal.
Monomonk
If you are not Jewish, this is what Jews think of you: you are nothing but an animal!
You know what they do to cattle? They slaughter them! They, the "Jews" can do
anything they want to you, and in their minds it is OK, but cause you are nothing but
an animal.
Monomonk