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One Thing I see...

J

Jehovah's Witness

New Member
Is that many people believe that JW's don't believe in Jesus Christ as our savior, or that we believe he was a prophet of God and nothing else, and that Jehovah is the only one and Jesus is out of the picture...

I come to set this straight at least on this forum and whom ever I've spoken to, or will speak in the future...

WE DO believe in Jesus as the Messiah/Christ, before being on earth, the Bible says in Col. 1:15 that he worked along side his father to create everything, he was God's first creation, later on Jesus was born on earth, and preached the Good News and God's Heavenly Kingdom, and later died for our sins, without Jesus's death, we wouldn't have the hope we have now. After being dead for 3 days, he resurrected and has a very important role in the heavens, HE IS KING of Jehovah's Kingdom, he has already started reigning since 1914 in the heavens, now he awaits the day Of Armaggedon to reign here on earth, once everything here on earth is Perfect just like Jehovah had it in his original purpose, he will submit himself to Jehovah.
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
Jehovah's Witness said:
Is that many people believe that JW's don't believe in Jesus Christ as our savior
Click to expand...

We get the same thing - Even though we are the Church of "Jesus Christ". It does drive one crazy ;)

Question for the JW's - what's up with this 144,000 thing? how many members are in your church? seems like the 144,000 is all filled up? No one else gets to go to the highest heaven? Someone on Earth put together a list and decided who the 144,000 are?

There are a lot of things I really appriciate about the JW's - no trinity, no Nicene Crede etc... there are some things, possibly I am misinformed, ...
 
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B

Big_TJ

Active Member
Jehovah's Witness said:
Is that many people believe that JW's don't believe in Jesus Christ as our savior, or that we believe he was a prophet of God and nothing else, and that Jehovah is the only one and Jesus is out of the picture...

I come to set this straight at least on this forum and whom ever I've spoken to, or will speak in the future...

WE DO believe in Jesus as the Messiah/Christ, before being on earth, the Bible says in Col. 1:15 that he worked along side his father to create everything, he was God's first creation, later on Jesus was born on earth, and preached the Good News and God's Heavenly Kingdom, and later died for our sins, without Jesus's death, we wouldn't have the hope we have now. After being dead for 3 days, he resurrected and has a very important role in the heavens, HE IS KING of Jehovah's Kingdom, he has already started reigning since 1914 in the heavens, now he awaits the day Of Armaggedon to reign here on earth, once everything here on earth is Perfect just like Jehovah had it in his original purpose, he will submit himself to Jehovah.
Click to expand...

So , where was he from the time of his resurrection until 1914? Did he ascend to heaven but was not ruling? Did he ascend but not to heaven? How do you know that his ruling in heaven started in 1914 and not 1920 (other any other year)?

The other interesting thing is the year 1914 (Nisan 14 as the JW love to call it). This 1914 year is a one of the many failed prediction made by Charles Russell (the father of the JW movement) that God would return. Not only Charles; this "prediction" thing was a feature of his mentor and the entire Millerite movement. Now, it is no longer "Jesus will return in 1914", it is now " Jesus begin ruling in heaven in 1914"? What dishonesty!
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Big_TJ said:
So , where was he from the time of his resurrection until 1914? Did he ascend to heaven but was not ruling? Did he ascend but not to heaven? How do you know that his ruling in heaven started in 1914 and not 1920 (other any other year)?

The other interesting thing is the year 1914 (Nisan 14 as the JW love to call it). This 1914 year is a one of the many failed prediction made by Charles Russell (the father of the JW movement) that God would return. Not only Charles; this "prediction" thing was a feature of his mentor and the entire Millerite movement. Now, it is no longer "Jesus will return in 1914", it is now " Jesus begin ruling in heaven in 1914"? What dishonesty!
Click to expand...

Not to mention 1914 was the year the Great War began...
 
Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
I'm unclear why this is in the biblical debates forum. JW, do you intend to debate the truth of JW doctrine in this thread? Or do you merely wish to point out that JWs believe that Jesus is the savior, contrary to what you say is popular opinion?
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Well, it's good to know where you stand on this. I frankly had no idea what you believed. It's always good to destroy the myths.
 
trinity2359

trinity2359

Active Member
Having been a JW once myself (disassociated back in 1990), I know that they believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but worship Jehovah, the Father, as God.
JW's do believe in life after death. The 144,000 to heaven, the great crowd (JWs) to earthly paradise and those who have not heard the good news are to be ressurected into the paradise after Armegdon (sp) for the 1,000 years before Satan is re-released to test them. Depending on the results of their temptation, they may stay in paradise. For those not of these classes, they are utterly destroyed with no spirit/soul living beyond human death.
 
tomspug

tomspug

Absorbant
For those not of these classes, they are utterly destroyed with no spirit/soul living beyond human death.
Click to expand...
Yeah... SURE sounds an awful lot like Christianity... Not. Better make sure you are one of the 144,000, otherwise... you're screwed.
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
Big_TJ said:
So , where was he from the time of his resurrection until 1914? Did he ascend to heaven but was not ruling? Did he ascend but not to heaven? How do you know that his ruling in heaven started in 1914 and not 1920 (other any other year)?

The other interesting thing is the year 1914 (Nisan 14 as the JW love to call it). This 1914 year is a one of the many failed prediction made by Charles Russell (the father of the JW movement) that God would return. Not only Charles; this "prediction" thing was a feature of his mentor and the entire Millerite movement. Now, it is no longer "Jesus will return in 1914", it is now " Jesus begin ruling in heaven in 1914"? What dishonesty!
Click to expand...

I think for 1914 they say Jesus came as "a thief in the night" or like the sun rising - at first you don't notice he is here - so they think he is here, he is just not making his presence known yet - am I correct?

1 Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


As for everyone else being utterly destroyed - I think it is their answer to hell - utterly destroyed, non existent, is better than eternal torment...

JW's are as christian as anyone else. They use the Bible, follow Christ, etc.
 
rocka21

rocka21

Brother Rock
My uncle is a JW. once in , its tough to get out. You can't read any other books, or celebrate holidays. One of his daugters is an athiest lesiban now and never comes around the family too much. All his kids had a ruff childhood ( no birthdays) etc.

My dad is catholic and my uncle trys to convert him every week for about 20 years now. LOL

The watchtower mags are all over my dads table..... creepy to me.... have read a few thou.
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
rocka21 said:
My uncle is a JW. once in , its tough to get out. You can't read any other books, or celebrate holidays. One of his daugters is an athiest lesiban now and never comes around the family too much. All his kids had a ruff childhood ( no birthdays) etc.
Click to expand...
rocka21 said:
My dad is catholic and my uncle trys to convert him every week for about 20 years now. LOL

The watchtower mags are all over my dads table..... creepy to me.... have read a few thou.
Click to expand...

My Parents are not JW’s but they are part of a very small group that still follow Russell – they claim to be the true Russelites, that the JW’s are a break off of them. Still use the original writing of Russel, the volumes, (JW's don't use Russel's writings).

About holidays, I think I understand part of the Christmas thing, everyone knows Jesus was not born in December, that we are actually celebrating a pagan holiday. The Christmas tree – a pagan symbol, lots of scripts about not worshipping trees like:

Gen 21: 33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beer-sheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

Whoops – wrong scripture, here is a better one:

Ex 34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

As for the trees and who Abraham was calling on in his grove,
“Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of things which are in heaven above”
why it was so hard to the Israelites to stop worshipping this particular Godess… see post # 30 on trees, and Heavenly Mother…

In any event, everyone should be enlightened on the Christmas Tree story. Here is the story I grew up hearing: (another version link)

A long time ago there was a mighty hunter named Nimrod – he was a great grand son of Noah, and a mighty hunter, who traveled from kingdom to kingdom with a band of followers creating havoc for the local residents. Multiple kingdoms had a bounty on his head, as a courtesy to others, the kingdom that got him cut him up into pieces and sent body parts around to all the participating kingdoms so that everyone would know he was dead. Nimrod’s wife Semiramis who was also his mother (twisted “Madonna and child” thing) was upset by Nimrod’s death and set out to reincarnate him. On the shortest day of the year in a pagan druidic ceremony she would chop down the pine tree - chop it into pieces as her son/husband had been – tree that does not lose it’s needles during winter (lots of symbolism around pine tree) burn the tree in an all night “celebration” – the “yule log” then the next morning, everyone would wake up to see the tree back in one piece gloriously arrayed with lights and decorations. This celebration was done to call the sun back into the sky, subsequently, days would begin to lengthen again rather than continue to shorten.

As a side note, the image we currently use for Satan – guy with cloven hooves, tail, and horns- comes from Nimrod, Nimrod was a mighty hunter – my parents told me he wore the skins of the animals he killed, making the image of Satan after Nimrod. I recently read in the book of Jasher chapter 7, Nimrod inherits the stolen garmets God made for Adam when Adam and eve left the garden of Eden – these cloths made by God were worn by Nimrod and made him into a mighty hunter.

In any event, I still celebrate Christmas with a Christmas tree, I do not think of Nimrod though… I may think of Heavenly Mother though (LDS doctrine that She exists, but NOT to set up trees for Her). The holiday is about Jesus and childbirth and renewal of life, hope of life through the atonement and all that for me. (I am a convert to the LDS church, please do not think LDS as anything weird – just me, I should prob try and get some things out of my head, it is hard though)

In any event, JW’s not celebrating pagan holidays is prob more Christian than the rest of us. Just trying to stand up for my fellow "Christians" as no other JW's seem to be showing up - although they could defend themself better than I could... I think they tend to shy away from conversations like this though.


? for JW's - why can't you read the original volumes and watchtowers that Russel wrote?

another link: Pastor Russell Not The Founder Of "Jehovah's Witnesses"
 
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fire

fire

Member
I had the JW missionaries come over to my house a few times last month. It was fun to talk to them and I did like them. The mormon missionaries also came over a few times several months ago. I liked them too. They don't come back, I think because I am unteachable to their beliefs. I even studied the JW book they gave me last month to see what they believe. I like a lot of what both of them have to say, and I admire their conviction. I just don't don't think there is a right/true/ or any organized religion on earth that is "the right one to go to". I think Joseph Smith was right when he said "all religions are corrupt and of the devil", and he just created another one! I like all the members who are Christ like and loving, but those who are hateful and have an attitude of, (better then thou) I just try to avoid in my life. Since both the JWs and LDS believe in Christ, maybe it would wise for them to spend a lot more time studying what Christ taught and a lot less time studying what their human leaders teach. So now I have said my peace, go ahead and crucify me.
 
S

sakura

New Member
one thing for sure that i must believe in is that Jesus is the TRUE witness of God not Jehova.,coz even the jews not even know jehovah. The word Jehovas witnesses was just invented according to pe0ples familiarity...
 
oldcajun

oldcajun

__BE REAL
idea said:
We get the same thing - Even though we are the Church of "Jesus Christ". It does drive one crazy ;)

Question for the JW's - what's up with this 144,000 thing? how many members are in your church? seems like the 144,000 is all filled up? No one else gets to go to the highest heaven? Someone on Earth put together a list and decided who the 144,000 are?

There are a lot of things I really appriciate about the JW's - no trinity, no Nicene Crede etc... there are some things, possibly I am misinformed, ...
Click to expand...

"If you don't believe like I do, you belong to a cult." That seems to be a common statement among many christians.
 
Jordan St. Francis

Jordan St. Francis

Well-Known Member
In any event, JW’s not celebrating pagan holidays is prob more Christian than the rest of us.
Click to expand...
I am constantly perplexed how gathering at midnight in the Church, reading the Scriptures of Christ's birth, praising him, praying and celebrating the "Word made flesh" is still thrown around as being a "pagan" thing.

Yes, it is celebrated on a day which at one point in time was set aside for a pagan celebration. But there is nothing pagan and everything Christian about what I have written above. Christ said, "when I am lifted up all I will draw all men to myself". Even before he was "lifted up" he drew to him wise men of pagan nations, discovering the Christ child through their own pagan astrology, which brought to him gifts of their own lands, and they worshiped him with what they had.

It is the inner attitude and orientation of the practice that determines its "essence".

I could be on my knees because I am picking up a quarter off the ground
or I could be on my knees because I am in prayer.
It is the intention and orientation of the posture that obviously matters here.

Likewise, a proper celebration of Christmas, remembering the First Coming of Christ and anticipating his Second, is not compromised merely because it may bear some outward relations to the practices of another religion.
 
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