Regarding the Second Coming...

Poisonshady313 · Jul 7, 2008

It is my assertion that nowhere in the text of the Tanach (or old testament to Christians) does it suggest, hint, predict, or explicitly tell of a second coming of the messiah. If the messianic prophecies won't be fulfilled in a particular guy's life time... the guy isn't the Messiah.

Christians say that the lack of fulfillment is just because the second coming hasn't come yet.

If there were two comings... how could you tell who the first one was? How would you know which prophecies were for the first time around, and which were for the second time around? The job description for the Messiah is pretty consistent.......

Did the Messiah come yet? Let's take a look at the requirements and see if we get anything:

Bible Study Library » A Jewish Understanding Of The Messiah

The Messianic Prophecies

Descendant of David

See, a time is coming declared the Lord when I will raise up a true branch of Davids line. He shall reign as king and shall prosper, and he shall do what is just and right in the land. Jeremiah 23:5 (See also Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:21-28; Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 30:7-10; Jeremiah 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5)

First of all, so many people since King Solomon meet the basic requirement of simply being a physical descendant of David and Solomon that this alone cannot make one the Messiah. Otherwise, how many million people could we call "Messiah"?

Second... Jesus never reigned as a king nor did he prosper. Just look at Christianity's tendency to use Isaiah 53 to describe Jesus... certainly a man despised by men, and accustomed to pains, disease, illness, etc... isn't prospering. And people who are familiar with God's law and have read up on Jesus can tell you that he did NOT do what is just and right in the land.

I think we're done with this one.

Preceded by Elijah

Lo, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before the coming of the awesome [the messiah], fearful day of the Lord. He shall reconcile parents with children and children with their parents, so that, when I come, I do not strike the whole land with utter destruction. Malachi 3:23-24

That's kind of dependent on the guy following him being the Messiah. Haven't had a Messiah yet, so we can be pretty sure Elijah isn't around yet either.

Christians say John the Baptist was the Messiah. What does he have to say?

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Next.

World Peace

And he [the messiah] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. Isaiah 2:4

Then the inhabitants of the cities of Israel will go out and make fire and feed them with the weapons shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, clubs and spears; they shall use them as fuel for seven years. Ezekiel 39:9

Next.

Universal Knowledge of G-d

For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. Isaiah 11:9

And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or shall one teach his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they shall all know Me, from their smallest to their greatest says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:33

Thus said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, ten men from nations of every tongue will take hold they will take hold of every Jew by a corner of his cloak and say, Let us go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you. Zechariah 8.23

And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one. Zechariah 14:9

All who survive of all those nations that came up against Jerusalem shall make a pilgrimage year by year to bow low to the King Lord of Hosts and to observe the feasts. Zechariah 14:16

How many religions and sects within religions exist in this world today? Need I mention Atheists? If Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 11:9, he wouldn't need to send anyone to preach the gospel anywhere... they'd already know.

Next.

Building of the Third Temple

And I will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My temple also shall be with them. Yes, I will be their G-d and they shall be My people. And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. Ezekiel 37:26-28 (See also Ezekiel 40-48; Isaiah 33:20)

Not only haven't we seen the third temple yet, but the second one was destroyed shortly after Jesus' death.

Next.

Death Will Cease

He will swallow up death forever. Isaiah 25:8

Jesus died. His apostles died. Everyone in the history of the world up until those who are currently living has died. How many people died while I was typing this? How many people died in the time it took you to read this sentence?

Next.

Resurrection of the Dead

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust, for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Isaiah 26:19

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

Therefore, prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord G-d: Lo! I open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves as My people, and bring you home to the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and lead you up out of your graves as My people. Ezekiel 37:12-13

No, the Michael Jackson Thriller video doesn't count as fulfillment of prophecy. I'm sure you know where your local cemetery is. Moving on.

Ingathering of Israel

I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Keep not back, bring My sons from far, and My daughter from the ends of the earth. Isaiah 43:5-6. (See also Jeremiah 16:15; 23:3; Isaiah 11:12; Zechariah 10:6; Ezekiel 37:21-22)

I live in New York.

The Nations Will Help the Jews Materially

Then you shall see and be radiant, and your heart shall fear and expand; because the abundance of the sea shall be overturned upon you, the wealth of the nations shall come to you. Isaiah 60:5

Foreigners shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister to you. Men shall bring you the wealth of the nations with their kings led in procession. For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you shall perish; those nations shall be utterly laid waste. Isaiah 60:10-12

But you shall be called priests of the Lord, men shall say of you, ministers of our G-d; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their riches you shall glory. Isaiah 61:6

From all the persecutions and exiles... the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, pogroms all over the world... even Canada was asked how many Jews they'd be willing to take to save them from the death camps... and the prime minister at the time said "none would be too many".

The nations of the world don't like Israel... and Jesus didn't do anything to help matters.

Eternal Joy and Gladness Will Characterize the Jewish Nation

And the redeemed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion in song; everlasting joy shall be upon their head; they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee. Isaiah 51:11

The destruction of the temple is a powerful mark of sorrow. Living in exile is a powerful mark of sorrow. Israelis can't live in peace in their own country.. they can't go out to a pizza place without wondering if they'll live to see the next day.

The Jews Will Be Sought For Spiritual Guidance

Thus says the Lord of hosts: In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations shall take hold and seize the robe of a Jew, saying: Let us go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you. Zechariah 8:23

Christianity being a radical departure from Judaism itself, this obviously didn't happen. So many Christians in the world believe God is no longer with us because we rejected "his son"...

All Weapons Of War Will Be Destroyed

Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go forth and set fire to the weapons and burn them, shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, handspikes and spears, and they will make fires of them for seven years. Ezekiel 39:9

Can you tell me when that happened in the past 2000 years?

Didn't think so.

The Enemy Dead Will Be Buried

For seven months the House of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. Ezekiel 39:12

Can you tell me when that happened in the past 2000 years?

Didn't think so.

The Egyptian River Will Run Dry

And the Lord will utterly destroy the tongue of the sea of Egypt and wave His hand over the river with His scorching wind, and smite it into seven channels, and make men cross dryshod. Isaiah 11:15

Can you tell me when that happened in the past 2000 years?

Didn't think so.

Trees Will Yield New Fruit Monthly in Israel

And on both sides of the bank of the stream, all trees for food will grow; their leaves will not wither nor will their fruit fail, but they will bear fresh fruit every month, because their waters flow from the Sanctuary; their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine. Ezekiel 47:12

Didn't Jesus curse a fig tree because it wouldn't produce figs when he wanted it to?

Poisonshady313 · Jul 7, 2008

Each Tribe of Israel Will Receive It’s Inheritance

“Thus says the Lord, G-d: ‘These are the boundaries by which you shall divide the land for inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions. And you shall divide equally that which I swore to give your fathers, and this land shall fall to you as your inheritance’.” — Ezekiel 47:13-14

I'm still living in New York.

All Warfare Will Cease

“And He shall judge among the nations and decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” — Isaiah 2:4

It wasn't an atomic pruning hook that we dropped on Hiroshima. And it wasn't a ploughshare that brought down the twin towers.

And let's not forget the crusades.

I went through the list... and Jesus didn't fulfill even one of these.

Jesus has no business being called the Messiah.

Even if there were two comings, which can't be supported, if the first one is marked by the fulfillment of even one messianic prophecy, it obviously hasn't happened yet.

Bishadi · Jul 7, 2008

I think I love you! And I say not because you are of any sect, but that you looked as the words straight up, with an honest view.

Jesus did good work as so did mohammed but the people who followed 'created' the differences within; to maintain the sect.

as well Judaism; is a far cry from the true compassionate faith as intended. In such that the 'line of david' will have nothing to do with Judaism as the religion of God..... as let it be in writing, in the present; that alter will fall and to rise never again.

let's see if a few shades of light can open your eyes

Poisonshady313 · Jul 7, 2008

Bishadi said:
In such that the 'line of david' will have nothing to do with Judaism as the religion of God..... as let it be in writing, in the present; that alter will fall and to rise never again.

I must wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Leviticus 26

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their God.

45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a God to them. I am the Lord.

If you, as a non-Jew, learn nothing else from the prophets, learn that exile is always followed by redemption.

Isaiah 11

11. And it shall come to pass that on that day, the Lord shall continue to apply His hand a second time to acquire the rest of His people, that will remain from Assyria and from Egypt and from Pathros and from Cush and from Elam and from Sumeria and from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.

12. And He shall raise a banner to the nations, and He shall gather the lost of Israel, and the scattered ones of Judah He shall gather from the four corners of the earth.

a second time to acquire the rest of His people. The first time was the redemption from Egypt.

When the Messiah comes, all people will recognize the one true God, and it will not be necessary for them to convert... however, the Messiah who will be a judge between the nations will be a Torah observant Jew, and the Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt, the animal sacrifices of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy will resume, etc.

Bishadi · Jul 7, 2008

It is my assertion that nowhere in the text of the Tanach (or old testament to Christians) does it suggest, hint, predict, or explicitly tell of a second coming of the messiah.

Sounds correct as well in the Quran, only one ‘birth’ expected as well.

If the messianic prophecies won't be fulfilled in a particular guy's life time... the guy isn't the Messiah.

Fair!

Christians say that the lack of fulfillment is just because the second coming hasn't come yet.

If there were two comings... how could you tell who the first one was? How would you know which prophecies were for the first time around, and which were for the second time around? The job description for the Messiah is pretty consistent.......

Did the Messiah come yet?

Not publicly known and definitely not done with the promise.

“See, a time is coming — declared the Lord — when I will raise up a true branch of David’s line

and would you believe it if I said a ‘Bacon bit’ which is absolutely hilarious when you think about it. But still think on this real truth

First of all, so many people since King Solomon meet the basic requirement of simply being a physical descendant of David and Solomon that this alone cannot make one the Messiah. Otherwise, how many million people could we call "Messiah"?

as well all from a combined line (Adam) in a real sense. So in reality, like the old books been telling us (and our fathers) we are all brothers of the same life (light)…. Literally…. (another chapter)

He shall reconcile parents with children and children with their parents

this has to items to comprehend; that to know life is light upon mass, then in reality a few things can be purely comprehended….. we are each of the light from our previous generations; that light literally exists upon the mass within us (egg/sperm).. we literally represent our whole tree (lineage) as they literally all are alive, (in the flesh) as we stand. i.e… had not each parent contributed a seed to make the new shade that is us, we would not be here. As well, if that line (light) was ever shut out (stopped in our chain/lineage)… we would not be here.

Then the second part; the parent combines with the child as well reversed; can be observed as the knowledge of today (the sciences/the new) can combine with the knowledge of the elders (religions)…. This reconciliation is part of the ‘revelations’ in the sense that one phrase is found that in fact will and does combine each line of thought (knowledge)…

Light is life!

World Peace

“And he [the messiah] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” — Isaiah 2:4

Basically every religion will get their behinds smacked around by one arrogant fool, who plays no games when it come to knowledge and the abuse the religions have imposed to the children while oppressing the desire to pursue knowledge continuously.

The judging is when the ‘people’ find just how bad they have been abused; the meek, the children, the last will become first; they will then become the judges.

This can be supported as the war of the 2 brothers, will begin a global conflict; them of power, the corrupt will be held accountable (gonna get real hot over them cities)… as the remaining will be the outlying folk. The grocery stores will not be full; money will have no force as well the religious leaders will be out of a job; all faiths. As not a one has ever done the right thing in pursuing perfect truth; they have all deceived and will all fail to extinction.

“Then the inhabitants of the cities of

Israel will go out and make fire and feed them with the weapons — shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, clubs and spears; they shall use them as fuel for seven years.” — Ezekiel 39:9

no comment needed for that, right?

Death Will Cease

“He will swallow up death forever.” — Isaiah 25:8

these are my favorite kind of prophecies as they share the beauty of knowledge.

Since we all know since Adam and Ever (per se) that their life still exists within us all. We their kids; all of us.

But that is not the whole story; procreation (making babies) is a physical life continuing beyond the grave. No memories to a life beyond the grave as they are all a part of the body we experience within (see alzheimers)…. But we live in what we do. Hence thy works.

TO by choice plant a tree in good soil, good water, good intent and of love… that tree can survive well beyond our physical death. SO every bird that sings, all the shade and fruit it produces is because of our contribution; we as people can choice to ‘create’ life even if such to plant a seed and begin a whole universe of critters; is was a choice we experienced and did for ‘other’ besides ourselves.

Teach a child; to be the first to show that little mind how to tie his shoes; from there forth you live in his understanding, his knowledge and doings; teachers don’t make (in dollars) that much but they will live a lot longer than most; (in your heart, do you have a teacher you wish to say thank you too?) Love them most dearly!

There is more but perhaps some dust is in my eye….. gotta go

logician · Jul 7, 2008

The prophecy of the suppsed Jesus of a second coming was for his day and time only. Of course, it never happened then, and never will.

Dunemeister · Jul 7, 2008

Christians have indeed interpreted the Tanach in such a way that there are two Messianic comings. The validity of that interpretation hangs, of course, on the claim that Jesus of Nazareth was the true Messiah. And of course, the New Testament makes clear that Jesus was, in many ways, not what the people of God were expecting. He was nevertheless raised from the dead, vindicating his claim to be a prophet of God.

For a serious treatment of these issues, may I recommend some pretty hefty reading? These books are three in a series about the origin of Christianity written by N.T. Wright, Bishop of Durham, Church of England:

The New Testament and the People of God -- Speaks to the issue of how the Tanack would have been read in first century Palestine by faithful Jews of all stripes, including the first Christians.

Jesus and the Victory of God -- Speaks to the issue of what exactly Jesus claimed about himself. It also deals with his self-understanding. It comes to some surprising conclusions (for everyone). It would deal fairly straightforwardly with your arguments.

The Resurrection of the Son of God -- Speaks to the event by which Christianity stands or falls. Bottom line, Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and a prophet. His resurrection vindicates those claims. So if there are problems about the Jewish expectations about the Messiah, or the fit between certain Tanach passages and history, we might have to relativize those in light of the resurrection. Thus it deals in a tangential way with your arguments, but it also tries to tease out the Tanach's witness to life after death and how it might relate to Jesus (or not).

Charity · Jul 8, 2008

logician said:
The prophecy of the suppsed Jesus of a second coming was for his day and time only. Of course, it never happened then, and never will.

I presume that is just your own opinion of course? Or do you have proof of your conclusion? :shrug:

crystalonyx · Jul 8, 2008

Charity said:
I presume that is just your own opinion of course? Or do you have proof of your conclusion?

The prophecy is in the scripture. As far as it happening, true prophets cannot exist in a chaotic universe.

Poisonshady313 · Jul 8, 2008

Dunemeister said:
Christians have indeed interpreted the Tanach in such a way that there are two Messianic comings. The validity of that interpretation hangs, of course, on the claim that Jesus of Nazareth was the true Messiah. And of course, the New Testament makes clear that Jesus was, in many ways, not what the people of God were expecting. He was nevertheless raised from the dead, vindicating his claim to be a prophet of God.

For a serious treatment of these issues, may I recommend some pretty hefty reading? These books are three in a series about the origin of Christianity written by N.T. Wright, Bishop of Durham, Church of England:

The New Testament and the People of God -- Speaks to the issue of how the Tanack would have been read in first century Palestine by faithful Jews of all stripes, including the first Christians.

Jesus and the Victory of God -- Speaks to the issue of what exactly Jesus claimed about himself. It also deals with his self-understanding. It comes to some surprising conclusions (for everyone). It would deal fairly straightforwardly with your arguments.

The Resurrection of the Son of God -- Speaks to the event by which Christianity stands or falls. Bottom line, Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and a prophet. His resurrection vindicates those claims. So if there are problems about the Jewish expectations about the Messiah, or the fit between certain Tanach passages and history, we might have to relativize those in light of the resurrection. Thus it deals in a tangential way with your arguments, but it also tries to tease out the Tanach's witness to life after death and how it might relate to Jesus (or not).

Rejection of the resurrection makes it easy to not be so impressed with what Jesus allegedly said or did.

Even further... Nothing written in the Tanach points to a resurrection.

That I can readily identify at least two false prophecies, it can be readily said that Jesus was a false prophet.

The lack of fulfillment of any messianic prophecy makes it impossible for Jesus to be the Messiah.

Even if you could convince me of the resurrection, that still wouldn't make Jesus the messiah (partially because his lack of a physical connection to King David, but mostly because of the lack of prophecy fulfillment)... it would just make him a super-cool resurrected guy.

You said:

"Christians have indeed interpreted the Tanach in such a way that there are two Messianic comings. The validity of that interpretation hangs, of course, on the claim that Jesus of Nazareth was the true Messiah."

Wrong. The fact is, nothing in the Tanach mentions, suggests, points to or makes necessary the notion of two comings of the Messiah. If Christians are going to say that Jesus is the Messiah foretold by the prophets, they need to be able to say who what and where. Insisting "it's gotta be" means nothing.

Poisonshady313 · Jul 8, 2008

Elijah or Elisha resurrected a dead boy

The Talmud tells us of Rebbe Yehuda Hanasi's student who resurrected a dead man

Resurrection is proof of neither being a prophet nor of being the Messiah.

Mister Emu · Jul 8, 2008

Shady,

What do you think of the two messiah theory?

Sententia · Jul 8, 2008

Charity said:
I presume that is just your own opinion of course? Or do you have proof of your conclusion?

Hah... very clever.

Where is your proof that people can fortell the future?

I hate when smart people are religious. :sorry1:

However I am always willing to hear you out. Please prove god, that god spoke to man, that man then interpretted gods word correctly, that man then wrote it down, that constantine didnt mess with us, that what the bible says is true and when taken literally that the earth is 6k years old.

Kthxbye.

Seriously... Dont parade like your better then the rest of us or know something we dont... You read the bible... great so did I... I think its fake and you believe out of fear.... I use words, religious folk have crusades and fly planes into building... The ends justify the means right?

No Im not serious or accusing you of violent retributive acts... but in all honesty how is someone that believes in fairy gods and angels gonna come ask someone how they can prove that people cant predict the future through revalation rather than through science. Granted if some dude said the average temp of the earth will be X and the moon will be in such a such phase well thats one thing... But you got some dude that said listen... I know you werent around at 0 AD but there was this guy.. jesus and he died and was tortured... (Shhhh go with me... Muslims dont think this... but whatever)... so he was tortured and crucified and slain. Dude I saw him die. They put him in a crypt and he was dead.... no I dont know what a pulse is... listen dont get all mixed up... So yeah dead... then like 3 days went by and dude like rose from the dead... and he went to america to go do stuff there man... Was crazy.

Thats your evidence.

Some 2000 year old dude wrote stuff down and you believe it.

And you are questioning psychic powers.

Dude call the Psychic friends network, ghost hunters and tell god to make me faithful... There is no god, so far as we can prove and no one can predict the future in the way you believe and I really wish people would start being honest.

Charity · Jul 8, 2008

BalanceFx said:
Hah... very clever.

Where is your proof that people can fortell the future?

I hate when smart people are religious. :sorry1:

However I am always willing to hear you out. Please prove god, that god spoke to man, that man then interpretted gods word correctly, that man then wrote it down, that constantine didnt mess with us, that what the bible says is true and when taken literally that the earth is 6k years old.

Kthxbye.

Seriously... Dont parade like your better then the rest of us or know something we dont... You read the bible... great so did I... I think its fake and you believe out of fear.... I use words, religious folk have crusades and fly planes into building... The ends justify the means right?

No Im not serious or accusing you of violent retributive acts... but in all honesty how is someone that believes in fairy gods and angels gonna come ask someone how they can prove that people cant predict the future through revalation rather than through science. Granted if some dude said the average temp of the earth will be X and the moon will be in such a such phase well thats one thing... But you got some dude that said listen... I know you werent around at 0 AD but there was this guy.. jesus and he died and was tortured... (Shhhh go with me... Muslims dont think this... but whatever)... so he was tortured and crucified and slain. Dude I saw him die. They put him in a crypt and he was dead.... no I dont know what a pulse is... listen dont get all mixed up... So yeah dead... then like 3 days went by and dude like rose from the dead... and he went to america to go do stuff there man... Was crazy.

Thats your evidence.

Some 2000 year old dude wrote stuff down and you believe it.

And you are questioning psychic powers.

Dude call the Psychic friends network, ghost hunters and tell god to make me faithful... There is no god, so far as we can prove and no one can predict the future in the way you believe and I really wish people would start being honest.

Thank you for the rant, I guess you feel much better now.....I'm sure all of this could not have originated over my one short comment to Logician. Surely the reference to "dude" was not to me. I don't understand what you are talking about, obviously you have me confused with someone else.

Sententia · Jul 8, 2008

Charity said:
Thank you for the rant, I guess you feel much better now.....I'm sure all of this could not have originated over my one short comment to Logician. Surely the reference to "dude" was not to me. I don't understand what you are talking about, obviously you have me confused with someone else.

No I think dudes can be girls or guys and I dont differentiate between the two online.

Im sorry you dont understand what I am talking about. I am sorry I ranted a bit there. :sorry1: And I wont repeat myself. (I really wanted to though but I dont see the need).

Finally I dont feel any better.

crystalonyx · Jul 9, 2008

Charity said:
I presume that is just your own opinion of course? Or do you have proof of your conclusion?

You've already waited over 2k years, a lot of patience for the words from an unproven source, written by unknown authors, the text decided by a committee of literalists.

Poisonshady313 · Jul 9, 2008

Mister Emu said:
Shady,

What do you think of the two messiah theory?

I'm not too terribly well versed in this "two messiah" theory

Whoever this son of Joseph is supposed to be, his arrival and presence won't be reckoned by any of what we commonly know to be messianic prophecies. I'm not sure who will anoint him. Some sources say he will fight in and be killed in the war of Gog and Magog... the very war which is supposed to usher the arrival of Moshiach ben David. I guess that would make them both contemporaries.javascript:doFootnote('2a101747');

There is only one Moshiach ben David, and he will only come once. And that hasn't happened yet.

From the very first sentence of Matthew, Christianity sets itself up to believe that Jesus is the first coming of Moshiach ben David. But there is no such thing as a second coming. If the prophecies weren't fulfilled by him, the case cannot be made that he is any sort of Messiah.

The two messiah theory speaks of two different people with two distinct lineages.

Regarding the Second Coming...

Poisonshady313

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Bishadi

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Bishadi

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logician

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Dunemeister

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Charity

Let's go racing boys !

crystalonyx

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Mister Emu

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Sententia

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Charity

Let's go racing boys !

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