Do you really have a choice?

[Trailblazer]

I believe that God knows everything that will ever happen to everyone throughout their lives and all that is written on the Tablet of Fate.

I believe that some things that happen to us in this life are predestined (fated) by God, and we have no control over these things.

However, I believe that most of what happens in our lives is chosen by us and then acted upon. God knows what those choices will be because God has perfect foreknowledge, but God’s foreknowledge has no bearing upon what we choose to do, nor does it limit our choices in any way.

I believe that our choices are determined by many factors that we have no control over, so I think that free will is very limited.

Here is what I believe about free will:
I do not believe that humans are just a function of electrical impulses in our brains. I believe we are sentient beings who have a will, and we make choices based upon our desires and preferences, which come from a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances - everything that goes into making us the person we are. All of these factors are the reasons why we choose one thing or another at any point in time.

How free our choices vary with the situation. Certainly, what we refer to as “free will” has many constraints such as ability and opportunity, but we have volition as otherwise we could not do anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been thinking a lot about this lately because I don’t really think I have much choice concerning how I am living my life. More on this later.
I want to know if others think about this. Are there things that you want to do but feel you cannot do? In other words, do you think you could be making other choices?

 

[JustGeorge]

I believe that God knows everything that will ever happen to everyone throughout their lives and all that is written on the Tablet of Fate.

I believe that some things that happen to us in this life are predestined (fated) by God, and we have no control over these things.

However, I believe that most of what happens in our lives is chosen by us and then acted upon. God knows what those choices will be because God has perfect foreknowledge, but God’s foreknowledge has no bearing upon what we choose to do, nor does it limit our choices in any way.

I believe that our choices are determined by many factors that we have no control over, so I think that free will is very limited.

Here is what I believe about free will:
I do not believe that humans are just a function of electrical impulses in our brains. I believe we are sentient beings who have a will, and we make choices based upon our desires and preferences, which come from a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances - everything that goes into making us the person we are. All of these factors are the reasons why we choose one thing or another at any point in time.

How free our choices vary with the situation. Certainly, what we refer to as “free will” has many constraints such as ability and opportunity, but we have volition as otherwise we could not do anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been thinking a lot about this lately because I don’t really think I have much choice concerning how I am living my life. More on this later.
I want to know if others think about this. Are there things that you want to do but feel you cannot do? In other words, do you think you could be making other choices?

I certainly do not know everything(or even very much), but I believe less and less in free will...

I feel we're likely all products of our environments(present and past), and that our futures unfold from that.

Could I be making other choices? I doubt it.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe that God knows everything that will ever happen to everyone throughout their lives and all that is written on the Tablet of Fate.

I believe that some things that happen to us in this life are predestined (fated) by God, and we have no control over these things.

However, I believe that most of what happens in our lives is chosen by us and then acted upon. God knows what those choices will be because God has perfect foreknowledge, but God’s foreknowledge has no bearing upon what we choose to do, nor does it limit our choices in any way.

I believe that our choices are determined by many factors that we have no control over, so I think that free will is very limited.

Here is what I believe about free will:
I do not believe that humans are just a function of electrical impulses in our brains. I believe we are sentient beings who have a will, and we make choices based upon our desires and preferences, which come from a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances - everything that goes into making us the person we are. All of these factors are the reasons why we choose one thing or another at any point in time.

How free our choices vary with the situation. Certainly, what we refer to as “free will” has many constraints such as ability and opportunity, but we have volition as otherwise we could not do anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been thinking a lot about this lately because I don’t really think I have much choice concerning how I am living my life. More on this later.
I want to know if others think about this. Are there things that you want to do but feel you cannot do? In other words, do you think you could be making other choices?

I feel that if I actually wanted to be doing something else, I'd be doing it.
That I am not doing something else, it's because I don't really want to be doing it.

Consciously, our minds keeps going and likes to think what if. What if I had done this or that differently.
Me, I feel if I didn't do something it's because I didn't want to on some subconscious level.

I've come to accept that my subconscious mind understands better what I need and what I want.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

knows what those choices will be because God has perfect foreknowledge,

but God’s foreknowledge has no bearing upon what we choose to do, nor does it limit our choices in any way.

This is illogical. If god has perfect foreknowledge then he knows what choices we will make. This means we cannot choose any other option and it does have bearing on whar we chose to do because we cannot chose to do something other than what god already knows we will do. If we can choose otherwise then god doesn't know what we will do and thus he doesn't have perfect foreknowledge. At best he'd be like a human predicting the behavior of another human, and other humans often do the opposite thing if what we predict.

 

[Spice]

There is no doubt in my mind that I have asserted my free will many times in my life. Nor is there any doubt that I have been quite lucky in living beyond some of those decisions, but again, because of MY choices of the available options. I also have no doubt that God helped me with those decisions by keeping my conscience free and active, but they were MY decisions. I know I could have had a much different life, one of safety in tradition and expectation, but I would not have grown in faith or as a free thinking person.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no doubt in my mind that I have asserted my free will many times in my life.

I would say that's only possible if you haven't studied psychology, sociology, anthropology, evolutionary psychology and neuropsychology. There's actually tons and tons and tons of reason to doubt the existence of free will, and those fields especially eviscerate the hypothesis.
In my opinion it takes acknowledging how constrained our Will actually is in order to even have a chamce at beginning to exert it. Other than that, to drift along with the notion of Free Will is to remain ignorant of all the things that influence, effect, shape and mold you without your conscious awareness or consent. And even still it takes a very high degree of self awareness to start to understand where you have been influenced amd manipulated amd formed by others to begin to exercise your own Will.

 

[Spice]

I would say that's only possible if you haven't studied psychology, sociology, anthropology, evolutionary psychology and neuropsychology. There's actually tons and tons and tons of reason to doubt the existence of free will, and those fields especially eviscerate the hypothesis.
In my opinion it takes acknowledging how constrained our Will actually is in order to even have a chamce at beginning to exert it. Other than that, to drift along with the notion of Free Will is to remain ignorant of all the things that influence, effect, shape and mold you without your conscious awareness or consent.

I can only go by my personal experience and self awareness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can only go by my personal experience and self awareness.

No, actually it's very easy to include others.

 

[Spice]

No, actually it's very easy to include others.

I don't follow. How do I easily include others in knowing my conscience?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't follow. How do I easily include others in knowing my conscience?

By being aware of the experiences of others, and how they process and see things, lets us have more perspectives to consider when we ponder our own life. Such as, considering others allows us to more easily consider if we are being swayed by a faddish trend or if it's something we really like. People like something? People don't like something, what lead to this? Then you realize somethings you like are liked by those with shared experiences and life histories. We can read a psychology studies and accept we aren't unique and see an aspect of us explained on paper and how it came to be.
"Nothing of me is original. I am the combined efforts of everyone I've ever known." (Chuck Palahniuk) That's the basic truth to all of us. Amd it's true because we are very much so hard wired and hard programed to be sociable, so much so that we instinctively amd automatically sync up with people we're connected with at the moment. Seriously, watch people walking in a public area. Without miss the steps of people who are with eachother will mirror each other, even if they meet up as they're walking their steps will begin to mirror each others.
It also helps us to understand certain behaviors are inhereted. We don't really understand or know how this happens, but we've seen it time and time again under observation. And understanding some of our behaviors and impulses are ancestral helps us to understand it may not really be us but ancestors who had logical survival reasons to be afraid and suspicious.

 

[Spice]

By being aware of the experiences of others, and how they process and see things, lets us have more perspectives to consider when we ponder our own life. Such as, considering others allows us to more easily consider if we are being swayed by a faddish trend or if it's something we really like. People like something? People don't like something, what lead to this? Then you realize somethings you like are liked by those with shared experiences and life histories. We can read a psychology studies and accept we aren't unique and see an aspect of us explained on paper and how it came to be.
"Nothing of me is original. I am the combined efforts of everyone I've ever known." (Chuck Palahniuk) That's the basic truth to all of us. Amd it's true because we are very much so hard wired and hard programed to be sociable, so much so that we instinctively amd automatically sync up with people we're connected with at the moment. Seriously, watch people walking in a public area. Without miss the steps of people who are with eachother will mirror each other, even if they meet up as they're walking their steps will begin to mirror each others.
It also helps us to understand certain behaviors are inhereted. We don't really understand or know how this happens, but we've seen it time and time again under observation. And understanding some of our behaviors and impulses are ancestral helps us to understand it may not really be us but ancestors who had logical survival reasons to be afraid and suspicious.

Oh, I definitely get all that. We are without doubt the products of our heritage and environment. These are the things that set up our options. However, we are still the ones who chose X, Y, or Z, or even whether or not we circle TRUE or FALSE.

Back to the OP, our situation and circumstances are the result of "divine" positioning, working in conjunction with the laws of cause and effect, so yes, these are not a choice of free will. Unless you go into the Buddhist belief that we chose even [some] these particulars. However our choices, guided only by our conscience once in that situation, is our free will selection with the consequences forcing the direction of which our next decision comes.

 

[Trailblazer]

I feel that if I actually wanted to be doing something else, I'd be doing it.
That I am not doing something else, it's because I don't really want to be doing it.

I think that there is some truth to that, but what if you wanted to do something else but couldn't do it. Can you do everything you want to do?

A person might want to be doing something else but be unable to do it owing to constraints on his free will. For me those constraints are anxiety and low grade depression. Because of those I cannot just 'do anything' I might otherwise do, things I want to do. Life circumstances also prevent me from doing what I might otherwise do. For example because of my job and my eight cats I cannot travel freely, and I also cannot travel because of my anxiety. So my life is very circumscribed.

Consciously, our minds keeps going and likes to think what if. What if I had done this or that differently.
Me, I feel if I didn't do something it's because I didn't want to on some subconscious level.

I've come to accept that my subconscious mind understands better what I need and what I want.

I agree with that because it is the subconscious mind that determines what we want to do and thus what we end up doing more than the conscious mind, since 95% of our thoughts and feelings are in our subconscious mind. That is also where our fears and anxieties come from so maybe I just need to accept my limitations coming from my unconscious mind.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is illogical. If god has perfect foreknowledge then he knows what choices we will make. This means we cannot choose any other option and it does have bearing on whar we chose to do because we cannot chose to do something other than what god already knows we will do. If we can choose otherwise then god doesn't know what we will do and thus he doesn't have perfect foreknowledge. At best he'd be like a human predicting the behavior of another human, and other humans often do the opposite thing if what we predict.

God has perfect foreknowledge but God's perfect foreknowledge does not determine what choices we will make.
Simply put, whatever we choose from all the available options is what God foresaw that we would choose.
We will choose what God knew we would choose since God knew what we would choose, but God's foreknowledge does not constrict our choices in any way.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

 

[1213]

...
How free our choices vary with the situation. Certainly, what we refer to as “free will” has many constraints such as ability and opportunity, but we have volition as otherwise we could not do anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been thinking a lot about this lately because I don’t really think I have much choice concerning how I am living my life. More on this later.
I want to know if others think about this. Are there things that you want to do but feel you cannot do? In other words, do you think you could be making other choices?

I think free will is not same as the ability to do whatever one wants. By what I have understood, free will means only that one can want whatever he wants.

 

[Nakosis]

I think that there is some truth to that, but what if you wanted to do something else but couldn't do it. Can you do everything you want to do?

A person might want to be doing something else but be unable to do it owing to constraints on his free will. For me those constraints are anxiety and low grade depression. Because of those I cannot just 'do anything' I might otherwise do, things I want to do. Life circumstances also prevent me from doing what I might otherwise do. For example because of my job and my eight cats I cannot travel freely, and I also cannot travel because of my anxiety. So my life is very circumscribed.

I agree with that because it is the subconscious mind that determines what we want to do and thus what we end up doing more than the conscious mind, since 95% of our thoughts and feelings are in our subconscious mind. That is also where our fears and anxieties come from so maybe I just need to accept my limitations coming from my unconscious mind.

I think it is about learning to be happy with want you have. I do about 20 miles on a bike just being out enjoying nature makes me happy. Other people out and about, most I don't really know often smile and wave as I go by. Sometimes I remind my self to just observe nature and life around me. I find peace in that.

 

[HonestJoe]

There is no doubt in my mind that I have asserted my free will many times in my life.

You mean you feel incapable of believing otherwise, even if you really wanted to?

 

[JustGeorge]

I think it is about learning to be happy with want you have. I do about 20 miles on a bike just being out enjoying nature makes me happy. Other people out and about, most I don't really know often smile and wave as I go by. Sometimes I remind my self to just observe nature and life around me. I find peace in that.

I've been taking the kids out to the woods more frequently since its warmed up here. I'm noticing being out amongst the trees to bring me a bit of happiness as well.

 

[Spice]

You mean you feel incapable of believing otherwise, even if you really wanted to?

No, if I wanted to believe otherwise, I could. I could blame all the negativity of my life on others. I could whine and complain of an unfair existence. Plenty of people do. But I accept what the Bible says in that we reap what we sow, because I believe in the scientific evidence of cause and effect. And in my own, sometimes stupid decisions, going against my better judgment, I have replicated the results multiple times, therefore scientifically proving for myself, this to be true.

 

[HonestJoe]

No, if I wanted to believe otherwise, I could.

So you just decided you were going to believe in free will "with no doubt in your mind"? It's not an inevitable rational conclusion based on logic and evidence? I don't see how you could have it both ways - your fundamental beliefs can only be either implicit logical conclusions or a conscious free choice.

And in my own, sometimes stupid decisions, going against my better judgment, I have replicated the results multiple times, therefore scientifically proving for myself, this to be true.

Wouldn't going against your better judgement essentially mean going against your free will though?

 

[Spice]

Wouldn't going against your better judgement essentially mean going against your free will though?

No. Free will is having the choice to go against your better judgment, aka, your conscience.