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The people who know Trump best won’t support him. Why should you?

fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member

This is a thread from the Biden/Harris campaign. But the words are not coming from Biden or Harris or any democrat associated with them.

These are the word of people like Bill Barr, John Bolton, Elaine Chow, Mark Esper, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Stephanie Grisham, Nikki Haley, John Kelly, John Mattis, H.R. McMaster, Mark Milley, Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Anthony Scaramucci, Richard Spencer, Rex Tillerson, Sarah Matthews, Ty Cobb, Cassidy Hutchinson, and I am sure there are lots more.

These are not just random people. This is Trump's Attorney General, two of his National Security Advisors, his Secretary of Transportation, two of his Defense Secretaries, his Director of Strategic Communications, the White House Press Secretary, the UN Ambassador, two of Trump's White House Chiefs of Staff, his Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, two of his Secretaries of State, his White House Communications Director, the Navy Secretary, his Deputy Press Secretary, and of course his own Vice President.

These are all people who personally knew and worked with Trump.

And btw, if you didn't read all that, if it was too long so you skimmed it, well that is the point.

 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Trump's advantage is that the people who support him don't know him at all. He has them so frightened of being "displaced" that they see him as a kind of Joshua, the only one that can clear the land of all those ersatz-Canaanites and make it pure white and Christian again (even though he's orange and knows squat about Christianity).

But it's really much deeper than that. Trump, and the Republican Party, are seen as somehow creating a whole bunch of hatred in American politics. But I don't think that's it at all. Rather, it seems to me that what he does is serve as a place where people who already hold a lot of animus towards marginalized groups to gather around him -- he recognized their hatreds, and he turned it to his advantage. This is a latent faction of Americans that has always existed, but needed approval for their own prejudices and hatreds. And Trump signals his approval of them, when for so long they've felt society in general disapproving.

So really, I don't think we can say that either Trump or the Republican Party is creating animus towards people, but rather that this faction of Americans, who really, really dislike marginalized groups, are attracted to one party or the other based on the kinds of the decisions that party is making at any given moment in time, and they can hide within that party rather than have to "come out" and show themselves for who they truly are. And this is comforting for them.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
So really, I don't think we can say that either Trump or the Republican Party is creating animus towards people, but rather that this faction of Americans, who really, really dislike marginalized groups, are attracted to one party ...
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I think it is both, of course the animus was always there, Trump did not create it, the Republican party did not create it. But they are using it. And more than that. They have learned that the more hatred is out there, the more success they have politically, so they are feeding it.

It is like that old story about an old man who tells his grandson about two wolves living inside him, one good and one evil, and that they are constantly fighting each other. The grandson asks which one is going to win. The grandfather replies "whichever one I feed".
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
I'm feeling more confident that Biden will win in November, but I keep reminding myself that the system is skewed for Trump. Trump won't get the majority of voters in November but he might close the deal on the 4-6 swing states that decide our presidential election. Remember Trump lost in 2020 by 7 million popular votes, but only lost by 42,000 votes in four swing states. Is this understood? It was 42,000 votes that won 2020 for Biden. That is way too close for comfort. Trump could lose by 10 million votes but still manage to win just enough votes in a few swing states to get the 270 needed to win re-election.

Trump is on the ropes, but this guy has a devoted base and plenty of disinformation media, and Russia on his side. These legal problems don't seem to be impacting the poll numbers yet. It is early. Campaigns don;t start going for a few more months, and the voters who don't pay attention to media of any type aren't really informed about the trouble Trump is in.

There needs to be a all hands on deck effort by the people listed above, and donors, and the public to expose Trump as a loser, and unfit for any office. This includes him being a national security risk due to his massive debts and legal issues.
 
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T

Tomef

Active Member
fantome profane said:

This is a thread from the Biden/Harris campaign. But the words are not coming from Biden or Harris or any democrat associated with them.

These are the word of people like Bill Barr, John Bolton, Elaine Chow, Mark Esper, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Stephanie Grisham, Nikki Haley, John Kelly, John Mattis, H.R. McMaster, Mark Milley, Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Anthony Scaramucci, Richard Spencer, Rex Tillerson, Sarah Matthews, Ty Cobb, Cassidy Hutchinson, and I am sure there are lots more.

These are not just random people. This is Trump's Attorney General, two of his National Security Advisors, his Secretary of Transportation, two of his Defense Secretaries, his Director of Strategic Communications, the White House Press Secretary, the UN Ambassador, two of Trump's White House Chiefs of Staff, his Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, two of his Secretaries of State, his White House Communications Director, the Navy Secretary, his Deputy Press Secretary, and of course his own Vice President.

These are all people who personally knew and worked with Trump.

And btw, if you didn't read all that, if it was too long so you skimmed it, well that is the point.

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From what I’ve seen on other forums, the moment anyone seen as a former supporter of Trump criticises him people start looking for some reason to dismiss that person and whatever they have to say. Some people support Trump because they genuinely think the policies he pushes are better for the US, but for many it seems to be a kind of incoherent fantasy that is completely immune to any kind of reason or reality check.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
fantome profane said:
I think it is both, of course the animus was always there, Trump did not create it, the Republican party did not create it. But they are using it. And more than that. They have learned that the more hatred is out there, the more success they have politically, so they are feeding it.
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One thing occurred to me as I was pondering why anyone would support Trump, and the list of happiest nations was released last week and the USA dropped to 27th, out of the top 20. One thing I notced in my time studying psychology is that people like to group with like-minded people, and tribes. And I wondered if the increasing dissatisfaction of average Americans means they resonate more with Trump's rants and complaining. Could it be they see a guy who is miserable too, and although is a disaster as a human being will relate to them more. Emotions and emotional reactions tend to overrule reasoning and good judgment. Could it be that many voters are not happy people and incapable of sound judgments?
fantome profane said:
It is like that old story about an old man who tells his grandson about two wolves living inside him, one good and one evil, and that they are constantly fighting each other. The grandson asks which one is going to win. The grandfather replies "whichever one I feed".
Click to expand...
Wisdom is a fortunate product of reasoning, and never through emotions where its most needed.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
F1fan said:
I'm feeling more confident that Biden will win in November, but I keep reminding myself that the system is skewed for Trump. Trump won't get the majority of voters in November but he might close the deal on the 4-6 swing states that decide our presidential election. Remember Trump lost in 2020 by million popular votes, but only lost by 42,000 votes in four swing states. Is this understood? It was 42,000 votes that won 2020 for Biden. That is way too close for comfort. Trump could lose by 10 million votes but still manage to win just enough votes in a few swing states to get the 270 needed to win re-election.
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When, oh when is American going to smarten up and toss this stupid Electoral College nonsense that allows a handfull of voters, in a handful of states, to decide for the entire nation?
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Tomef said:
From what I’ve seen on other forums, the moment anyone seen as a former supporter of Trump criticises him people start looking for some reason to dismiss that person and whatever they have to say. Some people support Trump because they genuinely think the policies he pushes are better for the US, but for many it seems to be a kind of incoherent fantasy that is completely immune to any kind of reason or reality check.
Click to expand...
Of course, but it becomes harder to do that when you are faced with the sheer number of ex Trump officials who clearly declare he is unfit. When 40 out of his 44 cabinet members will not endorse him you can't argue there is something wrong all 40 of them, you have to wonder what is wrong with those 4.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
When, oh when is American going to smarten up and toss this stupid Electoral College nonsense that allows a handfull of voters, in a handful of states, to decide for the entire nation?
Click to expand...
I listened to a debate about the issue on Firing Line. It was only 27 minutes long, but the argument to keep it still fell on the original intent of the idea. The opponent stated that the reason for the EC system was obsolete 10 years after it was adopted, and hasn't been eliminated because the results tended to follow the popular vote counts. It's been the last few decades that the problem has become a serious issue, and deemed undemocratic.

There's no substantive advantage for it anymore.
 
T

Tomef

Active Member
fantome profane said:
Of course, but it becomes harder to do that when you are faced with the sheer number of ex Trump officials who clearly declare he is unfit. When 40 out of his 44 cabinet members will not endorse him you can't argue there is something wrong all 40 of them, you have to wonder what is wrong with those 4.
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I don’t think ‘argue’ comes into it. As with trying to argue with a flat-earther.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
F1fan said:
The opponent stated that the reason for the EC system was obsolete 10 years after it was adopted, and hasn't been eliminated because the results tended to follow the popular vote counts. It's been the last few decades that the problem has become a serious issue, and deemed undemocratic.
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Actually it happened three times in the 1800's. John Quincy Adams (1824), Rutherford B. Hayes (1876), Benjamin Harrison (1888).

Then of course there was George W. Bush (2000) and our favourite, Donald Trump (2016).
 
Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
fantome profane said:
Of course, but it becomes harder to do that when you are faced with the sheer number of ex Trump officials who clearly declare he is unfit. When 40 out of his 44 cabinet members will not endorse him you can't argue there is something wrong all 40 of them, you have to wonder what is wrong with those 4.
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To the conspiratorially minded unhappy Americans it is just more "proof" of the deep state.
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired. Jonathan Swift 1721
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I hope the DNC has a large budget line for cult deprogrammers.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
fantome profane said:

This is a thread from the Biden/Harris campaign. But the words are not coming from Biden or Harris or any democrat associated with them.

These are the word of people like Bill Barr, John Bolton, Elaine Chow, Mark Esper, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Stephanie Grisham, Nikki Haley, John Kelly, John Mattis, H.R. McMaster, Mark Milley, Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Anthony Scaramucci, Richard Spencer, Rex Tillerson, Sarah Matthews, Ty Cobb, Cassidy Hutchinson, and I am sure there are lots more.

These are not just random people. This is Trump's Attorney General, two of his National Security Advisors, his Secretary of Transportation, two of his Defense Secretaries, his Director of Strategic Communications, the White House Press Secretary, the UN Ambassador, two of Trump's White House Chiefs of Staff, his Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, two of his Secretaries of State, his White House Communications Director, the Navy Secretary, his Deputy Press Secretary, and of course his own Vice President.

These are all people who personally knew and worked with Trump.

And btw, if you didn't read all that, if it was too long so you skimmed it, well that is the point.

Click to expand...
So what? Think your post will change the course of the election?
 
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