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conjecture and racist IMV - There are many poor Jewish people and the holocaust was not the solutionWho's doing that?
Do you equate money with hard work?
Most people who I know who work hard, long hours and so on, do not have much money.
Do I have to spell it out??? F-I-N-A-N-C-I-A-L____S-E-R-V-I-C-E-S
Oh .. so Muslims are a 'race' now, are they.
You were talking about the Jews…. ??? Where are you getting this from?
So, you unironically believe that it's justified to kill civilians as retaliation?
Yep. Since you believe retaliatory violence against civilians is perfectly reasonable, except when Hamas do it.
Again, you're ignoring the point. Literally saying that, because Hamas killed civilians indiscriminately, it is THEREFORE OKAY TO KILL CIVILIANS INDISCRIMINATELY. Can you seriously not see how hypocritical this is?
Women are currently being raped and mutilated in Gaza right now.
The very first thing Israel did in response was cut off all supplies going into Gaza, including electricity and water. And if they are NOW providing aid, you have to ask yourself: why are they providing it? It's because of the humanitarian crisis THEY CREATED.
We can, but apparently you can't, because you will never, ever acknowledge the wrong being done by the IDF and the Israeli state. You can ONLY see the crimes of Hamas, and not the war crimes committed by Israel.
Literally, their lands were invaded and taken by force. This is like blaming Ukraine for their own invasion because, rather than resisting militarily, they could have just given land over to Russia peacefully. No people should be forced, at the barrel of a gun, to leave land they have lived and worked on for generations without recourse. Violent resistance is an inevitable and obvious consequence of colonialism.
Just plain false. There was no "Palestinian right of return". Many Palestinian settlements were fenced in, their populaces either massacred of forced out and rounded up and sent elsewhere.
They literally rounded people up, based on ethnographic makeup, denied them a right to return to land that they had lived on for hundreds of years, gave a different ethnographic group exclusive right to that land - regardless of where they lived previously - and denied them basic rights in occupied territories. It was, by any reasonable metric, an ethnic cleansing.
And it's clearly totally working. Great job, Israel. It's also worth noting that the current government of Israel supported Hamas' rise to power, to the detriment of mode moderate Palestinian leadership. They deliberately propped-up the violent extremists.
That's awfully convenient. Last I checked, the people in Gaza's homes weren't being destroyed by Hamas bombs.
Don't talk down to me when you're a genocide denier.
Doesn’t qualify - - please noteMay 2023 Gaza–Israel clashes - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
2023 Al-Aqsa clashes - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This one is hard. Could be true. If so… horrible. I say “could be” because we know that Al Jazeera, the news source, is a known to cooperate with false information. Were there bodies? Yes. another source (which could also be doctored) said "Hamas has repeatedly used schools and hospitals, and grounds nearby, to launch attacks — both rocket attacks against Israeli civilians, and attacks against IDF forces in Gaza.” (Which is true) - and that the bodies were pilled up in the school. A lot of contradictory information so I don’t know other that “Could be and could be not"Shadia Abu Ghazala School massacre - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Ibrahim al-Maqadma Mosque missile strike - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Khan Yunis massacre - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Rafah massacre - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I didn’t check this one out since it is from the civil was in 1947-49
Not at all. When Israel is wrong - it is wrong. In today’s battle for the freedom for Palestinians and for themselves, they are not wrong in routing ot Hamas.
But they aren’t. They are targeting Hamas.
??? Great statement… where did you get that from?
Nope… Hamas created it. Count the billions to make tunnels and buy and produce all those weapons that should have gone to the Palestinians.
Can and will when it is wrong.
I stopped here. The bell rang and we went to our respective corners.
That can't happen .. you'll see.
30,000 civilians have died in Gaza. Israeli military strategy prioritises damage over civilian safety. There are numerous accounts coming out of Gaza of the IDF indiscriminately firing at civilians, even surrendering hostages. At this stage, we can no longer simply shrug and say "this is an unfortunate consequence of military action" and we have to start accepting the reality that what the IDF is currently engaged in is simply harming too many civilians for it to be justified.
I agree, it isn't. Which is why I condemn both what Hamas do and what Israel does.
Gee, it's almost as if escalation is a bad thing. Kind of like how there's a world of difference between what we're seeing now and what happened on October 7th, at least in terms of sheer scale.
Any actual evidence that this information is false?
Seems a lot of nuance you're willing to grant credit to Israel for.
Boy, it sure is interesting how you carefully avoided acknowledging the HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS THAT WERE IN THE MOSQUE AT THE TIME. Also, the independent investigation, which concluded:
You think " 275 Palestinians were killed in a brutal house-to-house search for fedayeen (while a further 111 were reportedly killed in Rafah)" sounds like a SHOOTOUT?
Right. Now the question is, do you think that would justify any kind of retaliatory violence that significantly harms the civilian population of Israel, yes or no?
The point is that it's misleading to point to air strikes from Gaza as if they, alone, are the moral failing of the Gazans for which the hammer fell. We're talking about the culmination of decades of animosity, and the lion's share of it is a direct consequence of Israeli occupation, foreign policy and war crimes.
Unless you call it a "shootout", or ignore all independent investigation, or don't read far enough down a Wiki.
I agree. Routing out Hamas is not wrong. What matters, however, is how one CHOOSE TO DO THAT. And if your operation to "route out Hamas" takes a form that KILLS TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS, I reserve the right to suggest that, at the absolute very least, you are showing a reckless disregard for the lives of those civilians and conducting operations in a way that is morally and logistically unjustifiable, or, at worst, perpetrating deliberate war crimes.
They're doing that now. That's literally what's happening right now in Gaza.
How kind of your to acknowledge it. The question now becomes, how do we fix it in a way that does the least amount of harm to innocent parties?
And either doing an incredibly, INCREDIBLY bad job of doing it, or else using that a pretext to do something else.
So you literally believe you can justify enacting war crimes on civilians as a collective punishment against terrorist cells.
And Israel's doing their best to make sure those same civilians also now have the added bonus of having no homes, no food, no power, no water, and no safe place to go. But, not to worry, they're being provided with flour - if they're able to run the gauntlet of IDF fire to get it.
I've caught you in this very thread selectively quoting from my sources to misrepresent them, and calling hundreds people being pulled out of their homes and shot a "shootout".
Not likely to happen, considering Hamas are practically a death cult at this point. Relying on them to do the right thing is most likely to produce disappointment. But it's not a good enough excuse for what Israel are currently doing. If you want to put all the moral responsibility on Hamas doing the right thing, and in the meantime we excuse any and all activities by the IDF as excusable, then you might as well be suggesting that the IDF just wipe out all of the people in Gaza.
How terribly convenient for you to be able to ignore 99.9% of my arguments on such a completely indefensible basis. Even Israel doesn't contend this number.
I think your broad strokes of irrelevant statements doesn’t address issues.
You're the one who said it's fair to dismiss my entire post because I gave a number of casualties even Israel agrees is a LOW estimate.
Again… your broad brush irrelevant statements doesn’t address issues.
This is just brazen dishonesty. I gave a thorough response to all your answers, and you deliberately ignored every part of the post after the opening six words, because you know are not able to defend your arguments.
Let’s start differently...
No, let's start with you being honest and admitting you can't respond to my arguments.
Another side-step of what I have been saying from the beginning and you are ignoring. Any excuse is a good excuse if you don’t want to address real issues
Whereas you, the guy who rejected my hundreds of words of responses because of a number that both Israeli and Gazan authorities agree is accurate, are not-at-all sidestepping when you ignore literally every argument I made because I used that number. And then went on to claim that I NEVER MADE THOSE RESPONSES, which is demonstrably a lie.
I have lost all hope of real honest debate.
You just need to admit you can't respond to my arguments and so you desperately tried to hyper-focus on this one thing, despite the fact that there is absolutely no disagreement whatsoever on either side about the validity of this number, and most believe it's a low estimate.
