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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

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Subduction Zone said:
No, it is not "just an opinion". Why would you make a false claim like that about others. You may have just an opinion, but people that understand evolution can show you why it is a fact.

You may think that it is calling God a liar to point out that the myths in Genesis are myths but that is only because you abuse your own Bible. You cannot properly support that claim. I can show you how we know those stories to be myths. Or morality tales if you prefer. We know that they did not happen. Here is an undisputable fact: All of the scientific evidence tells us that those myths never happened.
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Well I am looking forward to the Day when your scientific evidence is brought before God the Father and Creator. I won’t be looking forward to the consequences of the error that will come to the science group and those who trust in them.
 
Sgt. Pepper

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Subduction Zone said:
Feel free. I know of countless Christians that accept evolution. That Genesis is a myth does not mean that Christianity is wrong. It is rather amazing that creationists can never seem to understand that.
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I know Christians who believe in evolution as well, but I still believe that Christianity is no more truthful and morally superior to other religions.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
Well I am looking forward to the Day when your scientific evidence is brought before God the Father and Creator. I won’t be looking forward to the consequences of the error that will come to the science group and those who trust in them.
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Here is your error. You are assuming that your beliefs are true. Personally I prefer knowledge to mere belief. And mere belief is all that you have. That makes you no different from an ardent Muslim or Hindu. It does not mean that you are automatically wrong, but the odds of you being wrong are quite high.

And if there was no Flood of Noah, wouldn't you want to know it? You would not have to slander your own God by claiming that he killed . . . what? Millions of innocent people? You do not seem to realize that not only do you call your own God a liar, you also paint him as an incompetent villain. Why would you do that to a being that you claim to worship?
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
Subduction Zone said:
Here is your error. You are assuming that your beliefs are true. Personally I prefer knowledge to mere belief. And mere belief is all that you have. That makes you no different from an ardent Muslim or Hindu. It does not mean that you are automatically wrong, but the odds of you being wrong are quite high.

And if there was no Flood of Noah, wouldn't you want to know it? You would not have to slander your own God by claiming that he killed . . . what? Millions of innocent people? You do not seem to realize that not only do you call your own God a liar, you also paint him as an incompetent villain. Why would you do that to a being that you claim to worship?
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The way I see your line of reasoning is the same as when the Devil tempted Eve. This shows me clear as day by what spirit you are operating from. So obvious to me.
Also, if you go back and read the Bible you”ll see that the people were not innocent but wicked and evil in thought and deed.
”Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6‬:‭5‬-‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
Sgt. Pepper

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Subduction Zone said:
Here is your error. You are assuming that your beliefs are true. Personally I prefer knowledge to mere belief. And mere belief is all that you have. That makes you no different from an ardent Muslim or Hindu. It does not mean that you are automatically wrong, but the odds of you being wrong are quite high.

And if there was no Flood of Noah, wouldn't you want to know it? You would not have to slander your own God by claiming that he killed . . . what? Millions of innocent people? You do not seem to realize that not only do you call your own God a liar, you also paint him as an incompetent villain. Why would you do that to a being that you claim to worship?
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Speaking from personal experience, it was very difficult for me to acknowledge that Christianity wasn't better or superior to other religions. It was even more difficult for me to let go of my belief in God and my Christian faith. It was a matter of being completely honest with myself and facing my reality without the rose-colored glasses of my Christian beliefs. I know for a fact that this is often the case with other former Christians who found the courage to take the same spiritual journey as I did while leaving Christianity. I've met plenty of other former Christians who struggled to honestly question their belief in God, in the Bible, and in Christianity in general. I speak from experience when I say that it is a life-changing event that some Christians refuse to accept because they don't want to let go of their cherished Christian beliefs. So I'm not surprised when I see a Christian who is so adamantly resistant to it.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
The way I see your line of reasoning is the same as when the Devil tempted Eve. This shows me clear as day by what spirit you are operating from. So obvious to me.
Also, if you go back and read the Bible you”ll see that the people were not innocent but wicked and evil in thought and deed.
”Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6‬:‭5‬-‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
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And you are just fooling yourself. It also appears that your faith is rather weak.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

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Subduction Zone said:
In this case it would mean strength of belief. A strong faith is not shown by how strongly you claim that your version of God is correct. It would be believing in God even if your personal version of God was shown to be wrong.
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According to your definition I want nothing to do with that so I agree with you but would say I have no faith where that definition of yours is concerned.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. God spoke, I believe what he said, I live my life according to what He says.That’s the Faith I have.
 
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Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
According to your definition I want nothing to do with that so I agree with you but would say I have no faith where that definition of yours is concerned.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. God spoke, I believe what he said, I live my life according to what He says.That’s the Faith I have.
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I see. It appears that you are using Mark Twain's definition of faith.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
Don’t know Mark Twain, but my definition of faith comes from God, He is the one I will give an account to.
I thought at one time you said you knew the Bible really well, doesn’t seem like it.
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Please do not say silly things that you cannot support. If you cannot even make a rational argument why are you here? First off not even the Bible makes your mistake. Nowhere does it claim that the Bible is the word of God.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
Subduction Zone said:
Please do not say silly things that you cannot support. If you cannot even make a rational argument why are you here? First off not even the Bible makes your mistake. Nowhere does it claim that the Bible is the word of God.
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I think you should go do some more study to
support your erroneous comment, appears you don’t even know where the Bible comes from.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
I think you should go do some more study to
support your erroneous comment, appears you don’t even know where the Bible comes from.
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I am betting that I know where the Bible comes from better than you do.

Here is an important question. You have beliefs of where the Bible came from. How would you properly test those beliefs?
 
Sgt. Pepper

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Subduction Zone said:
I am betting that I know where the Bible comes from better than you do.

Here is an important question. You have beliefs of where the Bible came from. How would you properly test those beliefs?
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According to the Christian theological and apologetic websites I read online, the Bible was authored over a period of 1,500 years by forty men, from three continents, and in three languages: Hebrew, everyday Greek (called "Koine"), and Aramaic (an ancient language originating in Syria). And that's not to mention the number of times the Bible has been translated into different languages. I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are now in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here). With all of that in mind, which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If it's a Protestant Bible, then which version is more accurate? Is it the King James or another English version? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure authenticity? I speak from experience when I say that Christians are vastly divided about which version is accurate.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
We’ve already had this discussion and fruitless, a waste of time. See you in the end.
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We probably won't. Dead is dead. Why are you on a discussion and debate site if you are not willing to properly discuss your beliefs? Your reaction indicates that you are here only to preach.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sgt. Pepper said:
According to the Christian theological and apologetic websites I read online, the Bible was authored over a period of 1,500 years by forty men, from three continents, and in three languages: Hebrew, everyday Greek (called "Koine"), and Aramaic (an ancient language originating in Syria). And that's not to mention the number of times the Bible has been translated into different languages. I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are now in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here). With all of that in mind, which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If it's a Protestant Bible, then which version is more accurate? Is it the King James or another English version? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure authenticity? I speak from experience when I say that Christians are vastly divided about which version is accurate.
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Apologetic sites and most Christian ones are, are not historical sites. They do not give the same answers that historians will give you. For example they treat some of the mythological people of the Bible, such as Moses, as if he was a real character. They also often make the error of assuming that the Gospels were written by the people that they were named for. Luke may be one exception, but there is not even good evidence for that.
 
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