What is the genealogy of Jesus through Mary's line?

[Monty]

It doesn't matter. Mary's genealogy is irrelevant. So is Joseph's. For Jesus to make a claim that he is of the tribe of Judah, or of Davidic lineage, it has to go through the biological father.

IOW Chrsitians can claim the virgin birth, or they can claim Jesus is tribe of Judah, but they can't claim both.

Which is why the genealogy in Luke 3 tries to link Jesus to David and Abraham, perhaps from an observed relationship between Heli's son (also named Joseph) and Joachim's daughter which was somewhat more than just platonic, and to also make the link through his adoptive father (Matt 1), since David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7), and Abraham even shared a non kosher meal with a god when they discussed the number of righteous children in Gomorrah (Gen 18).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Which is why the genealogy in Luke 3 tries to link Jesus to David and Abraham

It tries but it does not succeed, if they want to insist that Joseph is not Jesus' biological father.

 

[Monty]

It tries but it does not succeed, if they want to insist that Joseph is not Jesus' biological father.

But it does if Heli's son (also named Joseph) was Jesus' biological father and was a descendant of David and Abraham. The Joseph in Matt 1 is totally irrelevant since he was just the adoptive father and not the biological father. If Jesus' biological father was a Roman centurion then his ancestry is irrelevant too.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But it does if Heli's son (also named Joseph) was Jesus' biological father and was a descendant of David and Abraham. The Joseph in Matt 1 is totally irrelevant since he was just the adoptive father and not the biological father. If Jesus' biological father was a Roman centurion then his ancestry is irrelevant too.

But they claim that Joseph was NOT Jesus' father. They claim that he has NO biological father.

 

[Monty]

But they claim that Joseph was NOT Jesus' father. They claim that he has NO biological father.

But who did he inherit his Y chromosome from? And unlike David, Jesus only claimed to be the son of a man, and only claimed to be a prophet even though his own family didn't believe him. And Jesus didn't claim to be without sin either (Mark 10:18 Luke 18:19).

 

[Subduction Zone]

It doesn't matter. Mary's genealogy is irrelevant. So is Joseph's. For Jesus to make a claim that he is of the tribe of Judah, or of Davidic lineage, it has to go through the biological father.

IOW Chrsitians can claim the virgin birth, or they can claim Jesus is tribe of Judah, but they can't claim both.

Well according to the nativity myth in Matthew God knocked her up. But then the paternal line of descent would have been: God.

Hmm, Luke seems to have a rough version of the virgin birth story too, but it is not as clear.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well according to the nativity myth in Matthew God knocked her up. But then the paternal line of descent would have been: God.

Never talk about descents. Mary was knocked by the Ghost, but what about the other females down both the lines.
We can cannot be sure even about Adam and Eve, The Ghost, the angels, Satan, the nephilim (they came before Noah), were all there.
Who knows who knocked whom!

"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown."

 

[Kenny]

Mary's parents, however, were Joachim and Anne.

that's is a statement given by the Catholics however they will also say they have no historical evidence of the fact so I prefer to use what is written by Luke

And Jesus' biological father was supposedly Heli's son (Luke 3:23).

No. Matthew is more specific on the father of Jesus. Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

But while maternity is a matter of fact, paternity is just a matter of opinion without reliable paternity tests, and his biological father could have been a Roman centurion as some have suggested.

I would disagree. Biologically, the body was created by God since the Word was God and was made flesh. Joseph is the man who accepted Jesus as his son and adopted him his father.

 

[Monty]

that's is a statement given by the Catholics however they will also say they have no historical evidence of the fact so I prefer to use what is written by Luke

No. Matthew is more specific on the father of Jesus. Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.



I would disagree. Biologically, the body was created by God since the Word was God and was made flesh. Joseph is the man who accepted Jesus as his son and adopted him his father.

But who was Jesus' biological father from whom he inherited his Y chromosome and had sex with his mother. Was he Heli's son (Luke 3:23) or another bloke?

 

[Kenny]

But who was Jesus' biological father from whom he inherited his Y chromosome. Was he Heli's son (Luke 3:23) or another bloke?

The answer would be found in Genesis when Adam was created as Jesus is the last Adam.

 

[Monty]

The answer would be found in Genesis when Adam was created as Jesus is the last Adam.

Nonsense. Where does the bible say that "Adam" was Jesus, and which "Adam"? The bible says that his father was supposedly Heli's son named Joseph who had a sexual relationship with Jesus' mother (Luke 3:23).

 

[Kenny]

Nonsense. Where does the bible say that Adam was Jesus? The bible says that his father was supposedly Heli's son named Joseph who had a sexual relationship with Jesus' mother (Luke 3:23).

"Nonsense" can be translated as "I don't care what you say, I'm not going to believe nor want to understand".

But on the premise that I believe you just lack knowledge of what is written:

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Joseph did not have sexual relationship with Mary until after Jesus was born. He actually wanted to break his engagement with her because he found out she was pregnant without him.

Matthew 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

So the body of Jesus was actually created even as Adam's body was created by God.

Adoption was seen as binding as having birthed a child biologically. Thus Joseph is known as the father of Jesus though he was not part of the procreation.

EDITED:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[Monty]

"Nonsense" can be translated as "I don't care what you say, I'm not going to believe nor want to understand".

But on the premise that I believe you just lack knowledge of what is written:

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Joseph did not have sexual relationship with Mary until after Jesus was born. He actually wanted to break his engagement with her because he found out she was pregnant without him.

Matthew 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

So the body of Jesus was actually created even as Adam's body was created by God.

Adoption was seen as binding as having birthed a child biologically. Thus Joseph is known as the father of Jesus though he was not part of the procreation.

EDITED:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

But Jesus' biological father had sex with his mother (Luke 3:23) from whom he inherited his Y chromosome.
The bible says that he was about 30 years old and does not say that he was about 2000 years old and was actually named Adam when he was executed by the Romans for sedition, and why he was sarcastically called "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26, Matt 27:37 Luke 23:38 John 19:19).

 

[Kenny]

But Jesus' father had sex with his mother (Luke 3:23) from whom he inherited his Y chromosome.
The bible says that he was about 30 years and does not say that he was about 2000 years and was actually named Adam.

But I just showed you he didn't to produce Jesus.... so I'm not sure what your question is.

And, yes, he wasn't actually named Adam. He holds the title as the "Last Adam" in that there are only two Adam's that were created in that fashion.

 

[Monty]

But I just showed you he didn't to produce Jesus.... so I'm not sure what your question is.

And, yes, he wasn't actually named Adam. He holds the title as the "Last Adam" in that there are only two Adam's that were created in that fashion.

But the bible clearly says that Jesus' biological father was supposedly Heli's son (coincidently also named Joseph like his adoptive father), presumably because of a sexual relationship with Jesus' mother, and from whom he inherited his Y chromosome (Luke 3:23).
And Adam's grandmother was born over 50,000 years after our aborigines arrived here, and Adam inherited his Y chromosome from his father, just like Jesus did from his father.

 

[Brian2]

Nonsense. Where does the bible say that "Adam" was Jesus, and which "Adam"? The bible says that his father was supposedly Heli's son named Joseph who had a sexual relationship with Jesus' mother (Luke 3:23).

Matthew 1:15........Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Luke 3:23 Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,

Matthew does not say that Joseph was the father of Jesus. It says he was the husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus. He also says that Joseph did not consumate the marriage with Mary until after the birth of Jesus. (Matt 1:25)
Luke says that it was supposed that Joseph was the father of Jesus.
Both Matthew and Luke have God as the Father of Jesus and Mary as the mother.
Matthew has Joseph called the son of David (Matthew 1:20)
Luke tells us that Jesus will rule on the throne of His father David, (Luke 1:32) so Jesus was descended from David and that had to be through Mary, since Joseph was the adoptive father only.
God is not a man that He would have sex with Mary but God did prepare a body for His Son who came from heaven. (see Hebrews 10:5)
We don't know whose DNA was used to combine with Mary's DNA, or even if it was anybody's DNA. Maybe it could have been David's, who knows.
But that is the body and descendancy in human terms.
The spiritual essence of Jesus, the Son of God, came through the Holy Spirit and from Jesus Father.

 

[Kenny]

But the bible clearly says that Jesus' biological father was supposedly Heli's son (coincidently also named Joseph like his adoptive father), presumably because of a sexual relationship with Jesus' mother, and from whom he inherited his Y chromosome (Luke 3:23).
And Adam's grandmother was born over 50,000 years after our aborigines arrived here, and Adam inherited his Y chromosome from his father, just like Jesus did from his father.

No... we very clearly read in the Bible that Joseph did not have sexual relationship,

So... I started with

But on the premise that I believe you just lack knowledge of what is written:

Now clearly my premise is wrong. Perhaps now the premise is "I just don't believe and nothing that is written will make me believe otherwise" would be a better foundation in our discussion.

 

[Monty]

Matthew 1:15........Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Luke 3:23 Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,

Matthew does not say that Joseph was the father of Jesus. It says he was the husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus. He also says that Joseph did not consumate the marriage with Mary until after the birth of Jesus. (Matt 1:25)

IOW the bible says that Heli's son (named Joseph) was probably Jesus' biological father (Luke 3:23), and that Jacob's son (also named Joseph) adopted him (Matt 1:16). And the bible says that David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7).

 

[Monty]

No... we very clearly read in the Bible that Joseph did not have sexual relationship,

So... I started with

But the bible says that Heli's son (who was named Joseph) obviously did have a sexual relationship with Joachim's daughter Mary, and that Jacob's son (who was also named Joseph) later adopted their son. But since paternity is just a matter of opinion without reliable paternity tests, Jesus' biological father could have been a Roman centurion as some have suggested, or even the milkman.
Either way, if Jesus actually existed, then he had a biological father as well as an adoptive father call Joe.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Perhaps those who wrote the New Testament did not put the genealogy of Mary because it was something tacit according to their customs that the wife of Joseph would be of the same lineage or descendant of King David.

I do not think so. I think that they never intended for his genealogy to be important. A lot of people put much stock into the NT writings as if they were given to us to help us understand everything, but I don't. They are fragmentary information, letters sent one way, books written with coined and cryptic terms, higher themes, figures of speech, imagery, parables and moral challenges. They are not connect-the-dots but written like choose your own adventure books. We're supposed to think and choose moral paths for our lives, not focus on these as if they were text books. They don't give instructions for living. They give us ideas, stirrings and discussions. They don't all agree in the details, either. For example when Jesus is resurrected what exactly happens at his tomb? How does Judas die? Does Jesus honor or dishonor his parents? Choose your own adventure.