Gender Neutral Bathrooms converted back

[Little Dragon]

I know that so, again, I ask what number do you think makes it ok for SA to happen, what number do you think makes it not ok?

Well. It depends doesn't it? If it's a significant percentage, than you people (you less supportive people) might have a point about same sex only bathrooms. Right? If we're to go to the length of restricting the freedoms and liberties of others. It makes sense that we weigh the risks and problems involved?

 

[Callisto]

Well. It depends doesn't it? If it's a significant percentage, than you people (you less supportive people) might have a point about same sex only bathrooms. Right?

Again, what do you consider a significant percentage?

To give perspective, should we do away with airline safety regulations because the accident rate of flights is "only" 0.000414%? Or is the rate low because of safety regulations?

According to RAINN, 15% of reported SA occur in public spaces, 10% in enclosed public area like a parking garage and 8% on school property. Since assault typically entails cutting off the victim from escape, it's unlikely bathrooms are somehow not being trespassed. And, this is with same-sex restrictions in place, it's not unreasonable to recognize those numbers would increase with license to enter without the current expectations and women admonished not to be wary.

Is your argument that some "low percentage" = an acceptable number to disregard the issue of women's safety and concerns.

Perhaps the solution is to make mens bathrooms unisex rather than women's rooms.

If we're to go to the length of restricting the freedoms and liberties of others. It makes sense that we weigh the risks and problems involved?

What restrictions? Trans persons have used public toilets all along and commonly without incident.

 

[icehorse]

Trans persons have used public toilets all along and commonly without incident.

To generalize a bit: traditionally trans people try to look like the gender they identify with. But recently some trans people don't worry about that.

So the result is that a trans woman - WHO LOOKS LIKE A MAN - can now enter women's safe spaces without being questioned. The issue is NOT whether the trans person is more violent than average. The issue is the NORMALIZATION of people who look like men entering women's safe spaces.

The other aspect of this that bears remembering is that fear and dread impact overall well being. If we make women feel less safe - even if just a little - that has a huge overall negative impact on the well being of the society.

So I would say that a trans woman who looks like a man is being extremely selfish and self-centered.

 

[Little Dragon]

Is your argument that some "low percentage" = an acceptable number to disregard the issue of women's safety and concerns.

If you wish to spin it that way yes. Of course anyone not patently trying to misrepresent my statements, would know that I think all competing considerations must be taken into the equation, before we start restricting rights and other things. It's common practice you know. To weigh in all the pros and cons of the direction to take. So, you don't actually know nor can you guess how frequently restrooms are the scene of a sexual assault rape?
So therefore, I can't determine the risk properly. There is no quantitive evidence to assess.

 

[Little Dragon]

What restrictions? Trans persons have used public toilets all along and commonly without incident.

Disingenious, you know very well that the choice of toilet, male or female, is the issue here.

 

[Little Dragon]

So I would say that a trans woman who looks like a man is being extremely selfish and self-centered.

I would not say that. Ever. That is exceptionally insulting.

 

[Little Dragon]

So the result is that a trans woman - WHO LOOKS LIKE A MAN - can now enter women's safe spaces without being questioned.

So you're ok with trans women, as long as you find them sexually appealing?

 

[Little Dragon]

What number do you think makes it ok for SA to happen?

If the number of attacks in female restrooms, committed by trans women (since they are the ones labelled a threat here), was significant, then I would suggest tighter security measures, if that doesn't alleviate the situation. Then I might consider taking away civil liberties.

 

[Little Dragon]

I've never trusted people with hang ups about gender or sexuality. There's always reasons, never logical or benevolent ones.

 

[icehorse]

So you're ok with trans women, as long as you find them sexually appealing?

now THAT'S insulting

Do you think that human male predators will not take advantage of anything that makes their pursuits easier?

 

[icehorse]

If the number of attacks in female restrooms, committed by trans women (since they are the ones labelled a threat here), was significant, then I would suggest tighter security measures, if that doesn't alleviate the situation. Then I might consider taking away civil liberties.

nope - they're not the ones being seen as a threat - at least not by me.

 

[Little Dragon]

now THAT'S insulting

Do you think that human male predators will not take advantage of anything that makes their pursuits easier?

"Dragging" it up, doesn't spring immediately to mind though, and hanging around the ladies...

 

[Little Dragon]

nope - they're not the ones being seen as a threat - at least not by me.

Sooo, you're saying.
Heterosexual male would be sex offenders, might, dress up in drag, to blend in? To gain access to the ladies via the art of camouflage? To carry out their criminal intent?
Not convinced, that most sane rapists, consider this a viable strategy.

 

[icehorse]

"Dragging" it up, doesn't spring immediately to mind though, and hanging around the ladies...

also not what i'm saying. see post #143

 

[icehorse]

Sooo, you're saying.
Heterosexual male would be sex offenders, might, dress up in drag, to blend in? To gain access to the ladies via the art of camouflage? To carry out their criminal intent?
Not convinced, that most sane rapists, consider this a viable strategy.

see post #143 concerning NORMALIZATION - no dressing up required !

 

[Little Dragon]

now THAT'S insulting

My mistake.
Some men I come across, resent the beard and dress combo, but the femboy in a miniskirt, and fishnets of course, is acceptable, just, after 3 pints of beer.

 

[Little Dragon]

see post #143 concerning NORMALIZATION - no dressing up required !

Ok. So. Some women wear guy clothes, notably my butch shaven headed and wonderful lesbian neighbour, whom I am considerably prettier than, bless her. What then?

 

[icehorse]

Ok. So. Some women wear guy clothes, notably my butch shaven headed and wonderful lesbian neighbour, whom I am considerably prettier than, bless her. What then?

seems like a pretty clear false equivalency to me, no? In general we don't worry about people "punching up" and we worry quite a bit about people "punching down". In other words, in general women are far more vulnerable than men, correct?

As for your neighbor, two points:

1 - would she be mistaken for a man?
2 - I agree our current solutions are imperfect, but that's not reason to make them worse, correct?

 

[JustGeorge]

To generalize a bit: traditionally trans people try to look like the gender they identify with. But recently some trans people don't worry about that.

So the result is that a trans woman - WHO LOOKS LIKE A MAN - can now enter women's safe spaces without being questioned. The issue is NOT whether the trans person is more violent than average. The issue is the NORMALIZATION of people who look like men entering women's safe spaces.

The other aspect of this that bears remembering is that fear and dread impact overall well being. If we make women feel less safe - even if just a little - that has a huge overall negative impact on the well being of the society.

So I would say that a trans woman who looks like a man is being extremely selfish and self-centered.

I've seen plenty of women who look like men. Its not even a trans or sexuality thing, they just look rather masculine. Or what about transwomen who very much dress the part, but perhaps still have some masculine facial features? What do you mean by "looks like a man" in this context?

Though the thought gave me a good chuckle for all the strange looks my skinny husband, with his thigh length luxurious blonde hair might get at the urinal... He does sometimes get mistaken for a woman from behind(easy to tell from the front; most women don't have goatees).

 

[icehorse]

I've seen plenty of women who look like men. Its not even a trans or sexuality thing, they just look rather masculine. Or what about transwomen who very much dress the part, but perhaps still have some masculine facial features? What do you mean by "looks like a man" in this context?

Though the thought gave me a good chuckle for all the strange looks my skinny husband, with his thigh length luxurious blonde hair might get at the urinal... He does sometimes get mistaken for a woman from behind(easy to tell from the front; most women don't have goatees).

does my post #158 answer these questions? If not, what do you need me to clarify more? thanks