Heaven

[Trailblazer]

@cataway said: the vast majority of those that consider them selves to be christion do not understand The book Revelation

Why do you think that some Christians understand it and others don't?

 

[cataway]

@cataway said: the vast majority of those that consider them selves to be christion do not understand The book Revelation

Why do you think that some Christians understand it and others don't?

some of it begins at the first verse in the first chapter '' A revelation* by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel 'and presented it in signs' through him to his slave John,+"
it's a fact that many don't see or ignore.

 

[Trailblazer]

some of it begins at the first verse in the first chapter '' A revelation* by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel 'and presented it in signs' through him to his slave John,+"
it's a fact that many don't see or ignore.

But why do you think that some Christians understand what the Book of Revelation means whereas other Christians don't understand what it means? Isn't that what you were claiming?

 

[cataway]

But why do you think that some Christians understand what the Book of Revelation means whereas other Christians don't understand what it means? Isn't that what you were claiming?

perhaps the best answer is to let you prove it to yourself. what are the JW's saying,find out for your self .everything is free and in print

 

[Trailblazer]

perhaps the best answer is to let you prove it to yourself. what are the JW's saying,find out for your self .everything is free and in print

You still did not answer what I asked. Why do you think that some Christians understand what the Book of Revelation means whereas other Christians don't understand what it means? In other words, why do you think that the JWs understand whereas the other Christians do not understand?

 

[cataway]

You still did not answer what I asked. Why do you think that some Christians understand what the Book of Revelation means whereas other Christians don't understand what it means? In other words, why do you think that the JWs understand whereas the other Christians do not understand?

it's been my observation that people try to read it as literal .very little of it is to be understood as literal and even then done with the eyes of discernment. i find amusement when someone tries to give names to the two witnesses (Rev,11). if you want to know find a JW and ask them to study the book with you. they're not going to charge you anything it's just a fun thing to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

it's been my observation that people try to read it as literal .very little of it is to be understood as literal and even then done with the eyes of discernment.

I agree. Very little of the Book of Revelation is intended to be understood as literal.

 

[ajay0]

So, based on maturity the taste for pleasure changes from one age to another? From child to child, to young adult to young adult, then on to the well aged - 70's to end of life stages of human development. This appears to be the process you are alluding to.

Yes. And as per Hindu scriptures there are different heavenly planes which caters to one's desires with respect to lower and higher pleasures.

The state of enlightenment however is considered to be the supreme pleasure or perpetually blissful state, superior to the heavenly pleasures which are of a temporary nature and proportional to one's spiritual merit acquired .

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes. And as per Hindu scriptures there are different heavenly planes which caters to one's desires with respect to lower and higher pleasures.

Are you saying that Hindu scriptures teach that heaven is a physical world?
If it is not physical how could it cater to the lower pleasures, which involve the physical body?

 

[ajay0]

Are you saying that Hindu scriptures teach that heaven is a physical world?
If it is not physical how could it cater to the lower pleasures, which involve the physical body?

The mention in the Hindu scriptures is with respect to the astral worlds where emotional pleasure is predominant. The pleasures of the causal world, considered to be more intellectual, are considered superior.

This is the impression I got from reading the 'Autobiography of a Yogi' where this topic is subject to scrutiny by Yogananda's teacher Yukteshwar.

 

[Truthseeker]

@cataway, I don't know with any certainty what the book of Revelation means in detail. Does anybody? It is rather hard to decipher. It's not worth the effort, either, in my opinion. I used to be interested, but not anymore.

 

[Truthseeker]

The mention in the Hindu scriptures is with respect to the astral worlds where emotional pleasure is predominant. The pleasures of the causal world, considered to be more intellectual, are considered superior.

This is the impression I got from reading the 'Autobiography of a Yogi' where this topic is subject to scrutiny by Yogananda's teacher Yukteshwar.

You get this understanding from one person? He doesn't represent all of Hindu thought I wouldn't think. Hindus are quite varied in their views.

 

[ajay0]

You get this understanding from one person? He doesn't represent all of Hindu thought I wouldn't think. Hindus are quite varied in their views.

I have knowledge of Hindu rituals related to heaven and stuff of that sort, and Yukteshwar's sayings kind of complement them and makes better sense of them. Yogananda in the book have also observed Yukteshwar's discourse on the subject as superior to known traditional sources of knowledge on the subject.

Personally speaking, I am not much into heaven and hell, and believe that they could be states of mind. You create your own heaven or hell on earth as per the quality of your mind and actions.

Yes, there could be heavenly and hellish dimensions after death, and if so, one will obviously attract the one that corresponds to the mind's quality and karma. But I don't believe that they are of an eternal nature due to the finite nature of karma.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The fulfilment of desire leads only to more desire, and therefore to more suffering.

Not really. My desire to leave Indiana was fulfilled. Goal accomplished. That hasn't created any further suffering for me, and hasn't created any further desires to replace it or created suffering. I have desired to get a phlebotomy job, but I got covid during mh externship and that lead to one thing lead to another and now I'm disabled. This suffering isn't the fault of going to fulfill a desire. It was just that "**** happens" thing of life and just as easily could've happened different. And then fulfilling a desire to transition, that hasn't lead to increasing desires or more suffering either.
Seems more to me some people are afraid of living and would rather just not try. Greed is insatiable and destructive, but setting some goals and having some ambition doesn't have to be.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not really. My desire to leave Indiana was fulfilled. Goal accomplished.

I don't think @RestlessSoul was referring to 'that kind' of desire.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think it's unfortunate that so many people believe the Bible's teachings about the afterlife, which are erroneous and misleading. You know why I believe this to be true. Sadly, not many of these poor souls realize that the Bible's claims about the afterlife are wrong until it's too late, and they now need help.

I find it odd just how much Christians have changed the Christian view of afterlife. Traditionally there is no soul that gets transportesld to another realm for judgment to go to Heaven or Hell. Rather we stay dead and remain dead until the Day of Judgement where everyone will be resurrected to face judgement.
This "beam me up, Goddy" just seems so strange, even foriegn to the Bible just silly. The Bible says we will all be resurrected and then be admitted into the kingdom or killed again and remain eternally dead. Afterall, it's says "will not perish but have everlasting life." Wouldn't it just be silly if we are judged after we die and then get resurrected to be judged again?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think @RestlessSoul was referring to 'that kind' of desire.

Doesn't matter. Desiring things isn't a bad thing and doesn't automatically and necessarily lead to more desires and suffering later on. Nothing would be worth fighting or struggling for if that were true.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Doesn't matter. Desiring things isn't a bad thing and doesn't automatically and necessarily lead to more desires and suffering later on. Nothing would be worth fighting or struggling for if that were true.

I think you are confusing aspiration with desire. By desire, I mean the visceral yearning that consumes the consumer. Wanting things, and working for them, is not the same as craving something regardless of the cost involved in acquiring that thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

I find it odd just how much Christians have changed the Christian view of afterlife. Traditionally there is no soul that gets transportesld to another realm for judgment to go to Heaven or Hell. Rather we stay dead and remain dead until the Day of Judgement where everyone will be resurrected to face judgement.

This is what most Christians still believe but I consider it completely absurd. It has no basis in the Bible but rather it is based upon a misinterpretation of Bible verses. Dead and decomposed bodies don't come back to life again and rise from their graves. That is patently absurd. Christians say "God can do anything because God is omnipotent" but why would God do that?

No, the physical body once dead remains dead and the soul (spirit) leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world (Heaven or Hell).
After the physical body dies the soul is raised as a spiritual body and goes to heaven where it continues to live forever.
The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why it needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.
That is what the Bible actually says.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

This "beam me up, Goddy" just seems so strange, even foriegn to the Bible just silly. The Bible says we will all be resurrected and then be admitted into the kingdom or killed again and remain eternally dead. Afterall, it's says "will not perish but have everlasting life." Wouldn't it just be silly if we are judged after we die and then get resurrected to be judged again?

Physical bodies will not be resurrected and then go to heaven since physical bodies cannot exist in heaven, since heaven is a spiritual world, not a physical world.

"will not perish but have everlasting life." Everlasting life (eternal life) refers to the state of the soul that is near to God, it has nothing to do with the physical body living forever. All souls will continue to exist forever since the soul is immortal, but the souls who are near to God will have everlasting life. The souls who are far from God will continue to exist, but they will be "as dead souls" since they will be spiritually dead (not near God). That is what Hell is.

Of course, this is all according to my Bahai beliefs, but I think it is supported by the Bible, when the Bible is interpreted correctly.

 

[Trailblazer]

Doesn't matter. Desiring things isn't a bad thing and doesn't automatically and necessarily lead to more desires and suffering later on. Nothing would be worth fighting or struggling for if that were true.

It all depends upon what one desires. If one desires the 'things of the flesh' I believe that will lead to suffering in the next life, since those desires will no longer be able to be fulfilled, but if one desires love that won't lead to suffering in this life or in the next life, it will only lead to joy.