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The bible and slavery - please post direct passages from the bible that you believe support slavery.
- Thread starter Kathryn
- Start date
Depends what you call slavery
Deuteronomy 21:10-13
Say you can take beautiful war captive women and force them to be your sex slave. Of course it pretties up the words but the sentiment is there.
Exodus 21:20-21
Say an owner may beat a slave to death and not he punished. Again wording is prettied up saying servant. However a servant is employed, the servants is not the owners money
Deuteronomy 21:10-13
Say you can take beautiful war captive women and force them to be your sex slave. Of course it pretties up the words but the sentiment is there.
Exodus 21:20-21
Say an owner may beat a slave to death and not he punished. Again wording is prettied up saying servant. However a servant is employed, the servants is not the owners money
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
The following was from skepticsannotatedbible.com
Bible stories that show God's approval of slavery:After the flood, the "just and righteous" Noah (Genesis 6:9, 7:1) got drunk, and lay around naked in his tent. When his son, Ham, saw his father in this condition, Noah cursed not Ham, but Ham's son, Canaan, and all of Canaan's descendants, saying, "A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." This is one of many Bible passages that have been used to justify slavery.
And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Genesis 9:25-27
God blessed Abraham by giving him lots of slaves ("servants" in the KJV), insisting that all the male slaves be circumscised.And the LORD hath blessed my master [Abraham] greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses. Genesis 24:35
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised. Genesis 17:12-13
When Sarah's slave Hagar flees from Sarah who is mistreating her (with Abraham's blessing), God sends an angel to tell her to go back to her abusive owner.Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face. ... And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her. hands. Genesis 16:8-9Abraham's favorite son Isaac was also a proud slave owner. You can tell how great he was by how many slaves he owned.Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him. And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great: For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants. Genesis 26:12-14God cursed the Gibeonites to be slaves of the Jews forever.Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God. ... And Joshua made them that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the congregation, and for the altar of the LORD, even unto this day. Joshua 9:23-27Rules for slave owners from the Hebrew Scriptures
on't let any of your uncircumcised slaves eat the Passover meal.But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. Exodus 12:44Don't covet your neighbor's slaves. (It's one of the the Ten Commandments.)Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. Exodus 20:17
Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ***, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. Deuteronomy 5:21
When buying slaves, be sure to follow God's instructions. Espeically if you are a priest, buying a poor brother, or selling your daughter. Although special rules apply for Hebrew slaves, it's always OK to buy foreigners, who can be inherited from one generation to another forever.If thou buy a Hebrew servant.... Exodus 21:2
And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman be sold unto thee.... Deuteronomy 15:12
If the priest buy any soul with his money.... Leviticus 22:11
And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee.... Leviticus 25:39
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant.... Exodus 21:7
Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever. Leviticus 25:44-46
But don't get caught stealing a slave, or you'll be put to death.He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:16
If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die. Deuteronomy 24:7
It's OK with God if you slowly beat your slaves to death. After all, they are your money. Just make sure that they survive at least a day or two after the beating. But try not to knock out their teeth or eyes. Otherwise you may have to set them free.If a man smite his servant or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished; notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money. Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake. Exodus 21:26-27
If your ox gores ("pushes" in the KJV) someone's slave, pay the slave owner thirty shekels of silver.If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver. Exodus 21:32Sell poor thiefs as slaves to pay for their theft.If a thief ... have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. Exodus 22:2-3If a man has sex with an engaged slave woman, scourge the woman, but don't punish the man, because she was a slave.And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. Leviticus 19:20Rules for obtaining slaves during wartime.When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. Deuteronomy 20:10-11
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself. Deuteronomy 20:14
Some of Jesus's parables seem to approve of slavery and beating slaves.The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:46-47
But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. Luke 17:7-9
The New Testament's epistles approve of slavery and command slaves to obey their masters.Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 1 Corinthians 7:21-22
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ. Ephesians 6:5
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Colossians 3:22
Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Colossians 4:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise ... he is proud, knowing nothing.... From such withdraw thyself. 1 Timothy 6:1-5
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Titus 2:9-10
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 1 Peter 2:18
And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Genesis 9:25-27
God blessed Abraham by giving him lots of slaves ("servants" in the KJV), insisting that all the male slaves be circumscised.And the LORD hath blessed my master [Abraham] greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses. Genesis 24:35
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised. Genesis 17:12-13
When Sarah's slave Hagar flees from Sarah who is mistreating her (with Abraham's blessing), God sends an angel to tell her to go back to her abusive owner.Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face. ... And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her. hands. Genesis 16:8-9Abraham's favorite son Isaac was also a proud slave owner. You can tell how great he was by how many slaves he owned.Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him. And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great: For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants. Genesis 26:12-14God cursed the Gibeonites to be slaves of the Jews forever.Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God. ... And Joshua made them that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the congregation, and for the altar of the LORD, even unto this day. Joshua 9:23-27Rules for slave owners from the Hebrew Scriptures
on't let any of your uncircumcised slaves eat the Passover meal.But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. Exodus 12:44Don't covet your neighbor's slaves. (It's one of the the Ten Commandments.)Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. Exodus 20:17Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ***, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. Deuteronomy 5:21
When buying slaves, be sure to follow God's instructions. Espeically if you are a priest, buying a poor brother, or selling your daughter. Although special rules apply for Hebrew slaves, it's always OK to buy foreigners, who can be inherited from one generation to another forever.If thou buy a Hebrew servant.... Exodus 21:2
And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman be sold unto thee.... Deuteronomy 15:12
If the priest buy any soul with his money.... Leviticus 22:11
And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee.... Leviticus 25:39
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant.... Exodus 21:7
Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever. Leviticus 25:44-46
But don't get caught stealing a slave, or you'll be put to death.He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:16
If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die. Deuteronomy 24:7
It's OK with God if you slowly beat your slaves to death. After all, they are your money. Just make sure that they survive at least a day or two after the beating. But try not to knock out their teeth or eyes. Otherwise you may have to set them free.If a man smite his servant or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished; notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money. Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake. Exodus 21:26-27
If your ox gores ("pushes" in the KJV) someone's slave, pay the slave owner thirty shekels of silver.If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver. Exodus 21:32Sell poor thiefs as slaves to pay for their theft.If a thief ... have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. Exodus 22:2-3If a man has sex with an engaged slave woman, scourge the woman, but don't punish the man, because she was a slave.And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. Leviticus 19:20Rules for obtaining slaves during wartime.When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. Deuteronomy 20:10-11
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself. Deuteronomy 20:14
Some of Jesus's parables seem to approve of slavery and beating slaves.The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:46-47
But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. Luke 17:7-9
The New Testament's epistles approve of slavery and command slaves to obey their masters.Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 1 Corinthians 7:21-22
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ. Ephesians 6:5
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Colossians 3:22
Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Colossians 4:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise ... he is proud, knowing nothing.... From such withdraw thyself. 1 Timothy 6:1-5
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Titus 2:9-10
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 1 Peter 2:18
The Southern Baptists of the Confederation of States relied on the Bible to morally justify their right to slavery. There are certain Christians today that still believe slavery can be justified because they are interpreting the Bible in a certain way. This illustrates how using the Bible as a basis for morality is highly reliant on the assumptions any Christian makes when they sit down to interpret the Bible. The dilemma here is that the interpretation has no moral guidance because the assumptions are at the whim of what the believer wants from the Bible. This is why we see Christianity range from highly liberal and accepting, like Universalists, through moderate sects like Methodists and Catholics, all the way to far right believers like Evangelicals, and even extremists like the KKK. All are saved via the sacrifice of Jesus to God. Christianity is anything goes. Whatever your moral requirements, there is something in the Bible that fit your needs.
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Viker
Häxan
Never once does it condemn owning another human being or trafficking in humans. I know it was speaking to it's time. My issue is that, concerning slavery not being in high regard today, what else is relevant/irrelevant for our time. Of course, that should be for another thread... I suppose.
Cue, "it wasn't like modern slavery, it was like having a boss" in 3, 2,....
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Ephesians 6:5-9
Colossians 3:22-24
Colossians 3:22-24
Altfish
Veteran Member
Instead of one of The 10 Commandments being something like "You should have no other gods than me"
Why not scrap that and insert, "You should not own another human being and all humans should be treated equal."
The first bit about it not being what we think about as American and European chattel slavery is true, because race as a concept wasn't involved. Instead it was a strata of what would be modern interracial xenophobia and misogyny and classism frameworks for slavery. And an Israelite man from a family in good standinf would have a much different experience than say a Canaanite woman, or a Hittite child (on the few occasions children weren't purged in the genocides.)
But none of them would be like 'having a boss' in the same way debtors prison was not like 'having a job.' Because both those two concepts imply having a degree of agency that wasn't there.
I don't necessarily care what the motivation is for enslaving others. I don't think it's morally better to enslave someone because they're from another country or village than because they're from another race ("black" and "white" didnt even exist as racial categories in ancient Israel, anyway). So yes, the particular circumstances and rationalizations were different. But they're all morally indefensible, as far as I'm concerned.
100% agree. The nuance is there for people who want to talk about history, but not from bad faith positions that just want to play apologetics for slavery.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I reference some in my thread on the Didache, that seem relevant. But I guess my question is, did the ancient people back then think of a slave like we think of it? In some cases certainly, but did they all have a lack of rights, and no ability to work their way from out? Granted that is bad as well
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Let's not forget Exodus 21 2-6 where it tells you how to trick a person that has signed up for a seven year stint as an indentured servant into being a slave for life:
2If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free without paying anything. 3If he arrived alone, he is to leave alone; if he arrived with a wife, she is to leave with him. 4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.5But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children; I do not want to go free,’ 6then his master is to bring him before the judges.a And he shall take him to the door or doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he shall serve his master for life.
2If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free without paying anything. 3If he arrived alone, he is to leave alone; if he arrived with a wife, she is to leave with him. 4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.5But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children; I do not want to go free,’ 6then his master is to bring him before the judges.a And he shall take him to the door or doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he shall serve his master for life.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Is someone saying this? Because I'm not.
That being said, the bible in Exodus 21:16 DOES forbid kidnapping. No one was supposed to be kidnapped, and this was punishable by death.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I did a word study on the word translated to "slave" by the King James Version bible. It encompassed at least ten words, which meant everything from "beloved house servant" to "field hand" and everything in between (yes, including indentured servant). As everyone knows, the bible has been translated from several languages over the centuries into various translations in today's languages, so this isn't necessarily surprising but it's problematic. I honestly don't know why this version stuck to one word to describe such a wide range of circumstances, but I also know that the term "slave" didn't carry the baggage of "chattel" that it does in the 21st century. Oh well, I don't typically use any King James version so there's that.
Also, the verses presented from the Old Testament are from a vastly different culture and time, and they seem to be regulatory rather than obligatory. Abraham regulated divorce though he didn't condone it, let alone support it or demand it.
The verses from the New Testament merely accept a prevailing practice. They don't condone the practice, they simply state that it existed. Jesus, for example, used many types of people in His parables - that doesn't mean that He condoned their roles, just that He accepted their existence. Same with other New Testament examples - Jesus' words (and Peter's and Paul's words in this case) simply accept what is present throughout the culture, and the New Testament appears to teach acceptance of one's place in society. Jesus also taught us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Around 40 percent of the Roman population was made up of servants and/or slaves - overall. Some areas were higher, some lower percentage wise. Manumission was so common that Augustus even banned this practice for any slave under the age of thirty in order to keep the slave population in check.
Different time, different place, different audience. We always, always have to look at context.
Also, the verses presented from the Old Testament are from a vastly different culture and time, and they seem to be regulatory rather than obligatory. Abraham regulated divorce though he didn't condone it, let alone support it or demand it.
The verses from the New Testament merely accept a prevailing practice. They don't condone the practice, they simply state that it existed. Jesus, for example, used many types of people in His parables - that doesn't mean that He condoned their roles, just that He accepted their existence. Same with other New Testament examples - Jesus' words (and Peter's and Paul's words in this case) simply accept what is present throughout the culture, and the New Testament appears to teach acceptance of one's place in society. Jesus also taught us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Around 40 percent of the Roman population was made up of servants and/or slaves - overall. Some areas were higher, some lower percentage wise. Manumission was so common that Augustus even banned this practice for any slave under the age of thirty in order to keep the slave population in check.
Different time, different place, different audience. We always, always have to look at context.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Sorry, don't see the trickery there. And it's a six year indentured servitude, not seven years.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
See above post - for some reason, the KJV translates at least ten words or phrases describing various forms of servitude into the term "slave" or "slavery" which in today's culture implies chattel. Actually these phrases or words mean everything from "beloved house servant" to "field hand."
This isn't my first rodeo.
You literally say a version of this in the very next post. Is it moral to own another human being as property?
Kidnapping only applies to those with rights and privilege. For example subhumans can't be kidnapped because they are lesser than God's chosen people.
This is how Christians can kidnap, abuse, or kill Native Americans, brown skinned people, Chinese people, etc. The authority of God can be used to justify anything. The middlemen to God can get away with immoral decisions and acts when their God is absent.
I think a big part of this problem is Christians interpreting the Jewish text for the sake of Christian ideas. Many of the ideas are too baked in to be adjusted, and the ambiguous meanings assigned to Jewish texts. For example salvation and Genesis being interpreted literally, which only causes more confusion among the many sects of Christianity and incompatible with Judaism. It's a catastrophe of incoherency. Anything goes.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
As the saying goes, none are so blind as those that do not see.
And the wording is a bit vague. How are they counting years? If they do not count a year until it is completely over then the person must only be released sometime in his seventh year. Might as well be the 364th day of that year.
But as to the obvious trickery. An experienced slave owner gets a temporary worker that is top notch. He recognizes talent. The person is also a decent human being. He "gives" the worker a wife. They have kids. Now it is the end of his stint. He is about take his wife and kids and go. But he can't. That may be "his wife". But she is the slave owner's properly. So are the kids. A decent human being will not abandon his wife and kids. He will opt for life long slavery.