By Faith. Why?

[Audie]

That suggests that 10 000 times you have chosen to ignore the teaching that you are a sinner!

According to scripture, you will go to the grave as a sinner and your sin with be judged. And, the outlook is not good because 'the wages of sin is death' (of the soul).

I acknowledge my sin, and have sought God as the only Saviour. In Jesus Christ l find that Saviour.

It suggests, that you don't get the idea
that you are preaching and being tiresome.

So here it is. Less Subtle: everybody
knows this idea. One glance and I
I know what the message is. I'm not going
to read it. I could write it myself if I
wanted.
I don't believe it now and I never will.

IF your religion were credible - like one
consistent version, AND, if things in it that are
readily fact- checked would, you know, check
out, then terrif, I might think it worth a
second look.
But, it's full of utter nonsense like 6 day
creation, flood, unicorns, tower of bable,, exodus, slaying with jawbone, talking
animals...
And you believe every word of it?

No thanks, I don't want to be like you,
I am actually incapable of believing the
false and absurd.

Waste your time chanting your chant, but
I did not and will not read it.

 

[Audie]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but CNN supports the socialist-Marxist-Progressive present administration. As for being fascist in the realm of subverting real news, creating lies (propaganda), and burning books (cancelation of real news), they are the top of the class. They lost the lawsuit against the young student, for making false allegations against him. I think he sued CNN for around 30 million, but the case was sealed, so no one knows how much he got. The more the better. Both Hitler, the leader of the national socialist party, and the fascist Mussolini were comrades in arms, along with Roosevelt's staffers, when they helped Hitler set up Democratic Jim Crow policies for his persecutions of the Jews.

That bad news ypu bear is just that
Americans are too insensible for
the responsibility of voting.

 

[Redemptionsong]

It suggests, that you don't get the idea
that you are preaching and being tiresome.

So here it is. Less Subtle: everybody
knows this idea. One glance and I
I know what the message is. I'm not going
to read it. I could write it myself if I
wanted.
I don't believe it now and I never will.

IF your religion were credible - like one
consistent version, AND, if things in it that are
readily fact- checked would, you know, check
out, then terrif, I might think it worth a
second look.
But, it's full of utter nonsense like 6 day
creation, flood, unicorns, tower of bable,, exodus, slaying with jawbone, talking
animals...
And you believe every word of it?

No thanks, I don't want to be like you,
I am actually incapable of believing the
false and absurd.

Waste your time chanting your chant, but
I did not and will not read it.

All scripture, to my understanding, points us to one person, Jesus Christ. If you cannot see Christ in the story of the flood, or in any of the other OT stories, then l suggest you start reading the Bible again as a parable. Every earthly story in the OT has a spiritual significance from which we can glean meaning.

What l believe you object to, because there was a time l felt the same way, is the nauseating way in which Jesus Christ is always right! His followers have an equally nauseating habit of claiming (often unintentionally) Christ's righteousness as their own righteousness.

 

[2ndpillar]

That bad news ypu bear is just that
Americans are too insensible for
the responsibility of voting.

Well, propaganda, as in the central control of information, is a problem around the world, with emphasis on such places as China and Russia. The U.S. is now having that control exposed by Elon Musk who bought twitter and is uncovering information about how the Progressive (fascist) government encouraged the media, such as twitter and google to suppress real information and spread fake information. In the case of Dr. Malone, who created the covid mRNA technology for creating the covid vaccine, he and 17,000 physicians, tried to inform the public about the adverse conditions induced by the vaccine, and that it should be stopped, yet the present administration has been able to subvert that information, as he reported on the "Epoch Times", per the Larry Elders interview. The voters still hold on to false information. Now whether the present administration can still hold on to its narrative or not is questionable. The covid disinformation, from the present administration, has killed millions of people around the world, yet the Africans and Haitians who didn't get vaccinated, came out better than the foolish western countries. In the case of South Africa, who supposedly had gotten vaccinated, the vaccination passport cards were mostly fake. The purpose of all this subtefuge is not clear, except that the elites, via WEF, their goal is a reduction in world population, which may be the result of the politically produced plagues, and coming famine due to stopping of fertilizer production, and oil production, and war. Fauci and the Progressive Bill Gates predicted a coming plague a couple of months before it arrived via the news media. Bill Gates monetarily supported WEF, and Dr. Fauci monetarily supported the Wuhan labs via his government position. They didn't just delude the voters of the U.S., but they deluded the whole world.

 

[2ndpillar]

Why make arguments no one is arguing about or has ever said to you? I did not inflate anything. I just provided scripture that is in disagreement with you from Genesis 3:1-6 and asked you questions relating to the scriptures that you seem unwilling to respond to because they disagree with you. Your response is to deny what the scripture says and not answer the questions asked of you. Your post here also does not address anything in the post you are responding to and is not coherent and does not make sense. Let me ask you again are you seriously trying to argue that we can not believe Gods Word and not obey what Gods Word says and still receive everlasting life? Would it help you if I just post old testament scripture? If you believe you can have Gods salvation while practicing sin and unbelief you do not know God or His Word which teaches the opposite of what you are claiming.

I am claiming that your "scripture", the writings of Paul, is not "Scripture", and that Genesis 3:1-6 doesn't say what you say, as you say it interpreted through the lens of the writings of the false prophet Paul. As for what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3, he was actually writing about the holy writing he read from his youth, which would not include Hebrews or his own writings. What I am saying is that according to Hebrews and Paul, the "scriptures" the law and the prophets, have been made "obsolete" or nailed to a cross. Both being false foundations for the Gentile church of Paul.

 

[2ndpillar]

All scripture, to my understanding, points us to one person, Jesus Christ.

The "scripture", the law and the prophets, refer to the judgments directed toward Israel, and Adam and Eve, for not keeping God's commandments, and pointedly to the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), a judgment coming to all the nations which includes the Gentile church, a daughter of Babylon (Revelation 17).

 

[2ndpillar]

So wrong again. The Covid virus was far deadlier than the flu virus. It shows up quite easily when one looks at statistics.

You need to follow the science based sources when it comes to scientific claims. When it comes to medical claims one goes to medical experts.

If your car breaks down and you can't fix it do you take it to a mechanic or a doctor?

If you are ill do you go to a mechanic or a doctor?

It is not that doctors or better yet medical experts are smarter than everyone else. They are smarter when it comes to their areas of expertise. I would never take a car to a doctor. But I won't trust my mechanic when it comes to the Covid virus either.

Doctor Malone, who actually invented the mRNA technology for the covid vaccine, along with 17,000 physicians, says that the covid shots should be stopped, and that they produce adverse reactions, including clots and strokes among young people. I couldn't find a link to the original podcast, but here is one similar:
Headwind—Dr. Robert W. Malone (theepochtimes.com) And covid 19 is not larger than your standard flu virus. The mask will not handle one differently from the other.

And when I have a mechanical problem, an electrical problem, a plumbing problem, or a health problem, I see to myself. The last persons I would trust are the so called "experts",such as Fauci, who are paid by the pharmaceutical companies, whose power originated with J.D. Rockefeller and his patten medicine business after becoming rich with Standard Oil monopolies.

 

[2ndpillar]

I have bad news, there is no socialist-Marxist-Progressive present administration. The current administration is just a hair left of center. It is very capitalist. Please try to get your facts straight. Right win wacko sources will drain your brain.

That might be true in your vivid imagination, but then again, you probably depend on CNN and MSNBC for your input. The Nazis were capitalist in the realm of the government controlling all of the corporations, as they were national socialist. The present Progressive Marxist administration is all in for regulating control of industry, while bank rolling it through the Federal Reserve through monetary easing. Most of zombie corporations would have already gone bankrupt through normal free market capitalism.

 

[Audie]

All scripture, to my understanding, points us to one person, Jesus Christ. If you cannot see Christ in the story of the flood, or in any of the other OT stories, then l suggest you start reading the Bible again as a parable. Every earthly story in the OT has a spiritual significance from which we can glean meaning.

What l believe you object to, because there was a time l felt the same way, is the nauseating way in which Jesus Christ is always right! His followers have an equally nauseating habit of claiming (often unintentionally) Christ's righteousness as their own righteousness.

Your underdtsnding- more properly,
a chosen belief- is just that, it's what you
choose to belief.
" Understand" has an entirely different
meaning.
If you choose to think that Genesis and
other nonsense is really ' spiritual" or
"parable", wel, go for it. Most Christians
dont see it that way.
" Word of God" is worthless if nobody
actually knows what any of it means.

See why your religion has no credibility?

And no, you in no way feel the same as I
this "objection" you mention never occurred to me.

i have though noticed that Christians
are solidly behind their personal inerrancy
in certain matters of what they believe.

Most likely you are another such.

Nauseating? Not at all. It's laughable
in its absurdity, and in how opposite
inerrant truths just make the whole
thing look that much less credible.

 

[Audie]

Well, propaganda, as in the central control of information, is a problem around the world, with emphasis on such places as China and Russia. The U.S. is now having that control exposed by Elon Musk who bought twitter and is uncovering information about how the Progressive (fascist) government encouraged the media, such as twitter and google to suppress real information and spread fake information. In the case of Dr. Malone, who created the covid mRNA technology for creating the covid vaccine, he and 17,000 physicians, tried to inform the public about the adverse conditions induced by the vaccine, and that it should be stopped, yet the present administration has been able to subvert that information, as he reported on the "Epoch Times", per the Larry Elders interview. The voters still hold on to false information. Now whether the present administration can still hold on to its narrative or not is questionable. The covid disinformation, from the present administration, has killed millions of people around the world, yet the Africans and Haitians who didn't get vaccinated, came out better than the foolish western countries. In the case of South Africa, who supposedly had gotten vaccinated, the vaccination passport cards were mostly fake. The purpose of all this subtefuge is not clear, except that the elites, via WEF, their goal is a reduction in world population, which may be the result of the politically produced plagues, and coming famine due to stopping of fertilizer production, and oil production, and war. Fauci and the Progressive Bill Gates predicted a coming plague a couple of months before it arrived via the news media. Bill Gates monetarily supported WEF, and Dr. Fauci monetarily supported the Wuhan labs via his government position. They didn't just delude the voters of the U.S., but they deluded the whole world.

Take it to a conspiracy thread.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The "scripture", the law and the prophets, refer to the judgments directed toward Israel, and Adam and Eve, for not keeping God's commandments, and pointedly to the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), a judgment coming to all the nations which includes the Gentile church, a daughter of Babylon (Revelation 17).

The Gentile nations are not the Church. It's made quite clear by Jesus that those 'born again' enter into his kingdom, which is not of this world.

If you read the passage from Joel that you have chosen to quote, then you should see that judgement is coming to all who don't know the deliverer, the Messiah.

And who do you think the 'remnant' refers to?

 

[Audie]

The Gentile nations are not the Church. It's made quite clear by Jesus that those 'born again' enter into his kingdom, which is not of this world.

If you read the passage from Joel that you have chosen to quote, then you should see that judgement is coming to all who don't know the deliverer, the Messiah.

And who do you think the 'remnant' refers to?

See what I mean?
You guys can't remotely get your story
straight.
The impartial jury rejects both of your testimonies.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Your underdtsnding- more properly,
a chosen belief- is just that, it's what you
choose to belief.
" Understand" has an entirely different
meaning.
If you choose to think that Genesis and
other nonsense is really ' spiritual" or
"parable", wel, go for it. Most Christians
dont see it that way.
" Word of God" is worthless if nobody
actually knows what any of it means.

See why your religion has no credibility?

And no, you in no way feel the same as I
this "objection" you mention never occurred to me.

i have though noticed that Christians
are solidly behind their personal inerrancy
in certain matters of what they believe.

Most likely you are another such.

Nauseating? Not at all. It's laughable
in its absurdity, and in how opposite
inerrant truths just make the whole
thing look that much less credible.

Truth would not be truth if it wasn't inerrant.

The surprise to me is that you feel the need to enter a discussion forum on the scriptures when scripture holds no truth for you.

 

[Redemptionsong]

See what I mean?
You guys can't remotely get your story
straight.
The impartial jury rejects both of your testimonies.

My disagreement with 2ndpillar is that he rejects large portions of scripture.

My disagreement with you is that you reject it all!

 

[shunyadragon]

I do not reject good science, and l am careful not to impose an interpretation on Genesis that goes beyond the wording of scripture.

There is a roblem with what you claim as 'good science' in the history of your posts. So far you have indicated what you falsely call objective evidence and documentary evidence of scripture that does not meet the criteria nor definition over 'good science.' Pretty much everyone including the most conservative believers in a literal Bible say they believe in 'good science.'

Yes, you indeed have imposed an interpretation of scripture based on what you believe is the 'wording pf scripture.'

The days of Genesis are not said to be days of 24 hours, and it may also be that a gap of time exists between verses 1 and 2 of chapter 1.

OK, but does not address the problems with Genesis Creation, Adam and Eve and Exodus as well as your claims concerning the NT, and your false claims of objective and documentary evidence.

[quote\ The important thing to recognize from prophecy is that it has a deeper level of meaning that the one on the surface. This is why Genesis should be seen as a prologue to the whole of scripture, because it lays out the structure of God's plan from the time of Adam. [/quote]

Your clearly overstating the credibility and meaningful reference of the evidence that demonstrates the mythology of Genesis.

I accept Adam and Eve as the first of a new subspecies of homo sapiens. I believe that there are sometimes small but important variations between the various subspecies that actually make a big difference to the 'image of God'. What is very clear from the literature is that this is not an area of science where certainty prevails. [/qipy/te]

The claims of the Original Sin and the Fall related to the story of Adam and Eve specifically represent a mythology that has no reference in reality of what we know of the history of humanity,

The teaching with regard to the nature of Adamic man is, to my understanding, without error. It speaks about the inclination of man to follow the lust of the flesh, seen initially in the temptation of Eve. The flesh becomes prominent only when the Spirit is ignored, and this leads a man into sinful practices. This is the story of the original sin, and highlights the need to know and follow the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me, that we often encounter members from the scientific community thinking that their methodology can be used to analyse the Bible. But the exegesis of scripture is not comparable to a scientific experiment. It is governed by a different set of principles, some of which are beyond the measures of science.

Our knowledge of science and archaeology can test the factual physical history claimed in the Bible.

I know that it is hard for some people to recognize that there are forms of evidence which do not fit the scientific model. But, the Bible [Hebrews 11:1] makes it clear that faith is a form of evidence. This is because God only reveals things to people who hold the truth by faith. Faith, in other words, pleases God.

The Bible cannot testify itself concerning what is 'objective or documentary evidence. You need outside sources of document the objectivity of the Bible by how objective is defined concerning what is evidence.

To hold faith in such high regard goes against scientific practice, but at the root of faith is a conviction that God lies behind creation and is, ultimately, in control of the destiny of this world and each individual soul within it.

One, such as I, can easily accept that God lies behind Creation and in control of this world and each individual within it without creating conflicts between faith and science. Science remains the objective standard concerning the physical facts and NOT in conflict with the witness of God's Creation.

Richard Dawkins, and similar thinkers, have a great dislike of faith because they understand it to be a rejection of reason. This is a childish misunderstanding of the Bible, and a broader review of Jewish and Christian literature will quickly make apparent that some of humanity's greatest minds have been preoccupied with understanding the nuances of the text.

Calling to question Richard Dawkins beliefs does not remotely help your case. Richard Dawkins' science is sound and good and I have no reason to have an issue with his science. He has a legitimate claim the believers claim their belief by faith is objective evidence and documentary evidence in opposition to science. I share this belief with Dawkins and I am a theist. Virtually all scientists are in agreement with Dawkins concerning science, but scientists have many diverse religious beliefs.

[quote[ The bottom line is that science deals with creation,

The bottom line is that science deals with [the physical nature of] creation

not the Creator. To find and understand the Creator requires heart, faith and the leading of the Holy Spirit. It also requires a recognition that sin stands in the way of the righteous life.

OK, but you have to deal with the numerous diverse and conflicting beliefs that that follow the above, and reach different conclusions as you.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Okay, but you know that that never happened either, right? You are hopefully aware that there never were just two people. That story is just badly told tale of how humans got their moral behavior.

Not only that but Jesus is nowhere in Genesis. Jesus could forgive sins before he died, making the crucifixion unnecessary and God forgave sins prior to Jesus, making him unnecessary.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If you could persuade me that you were not dying then l would have reason to believe that you were without sin, but the truth is you are dying!

So are countless life forms that aren’t seen to be moral agents, like amoebas.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Why would they all choose to lie about something from which they gained nothing materially?

Lol, they were literally living off of other people.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

To claim that these testimonies are unreliable

The instant they claim to be witnesses and describe things that they weren’t there for makes them unreliable.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Gentile nations are not the Church. It's made quite clear by Jesus that those 'born again' enter into his kingdom, which is not of this world.

If you read the passage from Joel that you have chosen to quote, then you should see that judgement is coming to all who don't know the deliverer, the Messiah.

And who do you think the 'remnant' refers to?

Your question is a bit vague. I would think that the "remnant" (Isaiah 10:22), would refer to Israel as numerous as the sands of the seas, ending up not so large. As for who the "day of judgment" is coming for, that is explained in Joel 3, and would include all the nations who sold Israel into slavery, which would include all the nations pointed out in Daniel 2:44-45. As for the "Gentile church", such as the church of Ephesus, that would be the church of the false apostle Paul (Revelation 2:2), as he claimed to be sent to the "Gentiles". The "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 13:11), that Yeshua taught in "parables", was with respect to the coming "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30), where the "tares", the lawless (Matthew 13:41), will be "gathered" "first" and thrown into the "furnace of fire", the great tribulation, as in the "day of the LORD", whereupon, nations/Gentiles, will be sold in slavery by the Jews (Joel 3:8). Yeshua made quite clear in Revelation 18:4, that his people, who are among the nations (Ezekiel 36:19), must "come out of her". Joel 2:31-32 is directed to those who call on the name YHWY, which would be those "in Jerusalem", and on "Mount Zion", the mountain of the LORD, those which keep his Commandments.

King James Bible (Isaiah 10:22)
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.