Openly gay and Catholic

[Trailblazer]

Oh, so you do have opinions (beliefs) on queerfolk, then.

No, I don't have personal opinions about gay people. I only have personal opinions about gay sex.

Also get a dictionary yourself, before you then say that there is "demonstrable harm" to being queer.

Give it up for lost. The harm that comes to people who engage in gay sex has been amply demonstrated.

 

[Trailblazer]

From the Catholic Education Resource Center. Oh yeah, this won't be biased at all.

I expected this response but medical facts are medical facts, it does not matter if the source was Catholic.

 

[Trailblazer]

A bigoted assumption. And yet, prove why promiscuity is harmful.

Ever watch true crime shows on TV? I watch them almost exclusively.
The bulk of murders that are committed have something to do with promiscuous sex. It is not usually homosexual sex, it is heterosexual sex. Sex outside of its proper context, which is marriage, is the mother of all evils. The harm to individuals and society that comes from sex out of wedlock is extensive, whether it is promiscuous sex or a so-called loving relationship.

Last night I watched a true story about an Amish man who wanted oral sex from his wife and when she would not perform it he went online and put an advertisement to get what he wanted. Long story short, he and his new partner murdered his wife so they could be together and have sex. The wife was a beautiful woman and the couple had five children who were left without a mother or father, all because that man had to have sex. He could have has sex with his wife but that was not good enough, he had to have what he wanted.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And I suggest you get a dictionary. A Baha'i Law that precludes certain behaviors (and only applies to Baha'is) is not bigotry.
Are we also bigoted against murderers because there is a Baha'i Law that precludes murder?
Are we bigoted against thieves because there is a Baha'i Law that precludes stealing?

Comparing LGBTQ people to murderers and thieves is pretty bigoted all by itself.

 

[Trailblazer]

No Gods are known to exist

But what is "known" has no bearing upon whether God exists or not.

This is irrelevant since you have decided to follow Bahai as a religion and accept a rule that is immoral in modern society. The planet evolved morally beyond Bahai.

Quite the contrary. Society has not evolved morally, society has degenerated and fallen into a decadent state when it comes to what is acceptable sexual behavior, and this decadence is a primary contributing factor for many of the ills that affect modern society. If the Baha'i Laws regarding sexual behavior were followed those ills would no longer exist and society would be transformed into a paradise. I am not primarily referring to homosexual sex, as the primary problem rests with heterosexuals, since they are the majority.

 

[Trailblazer]

Comparing LGBTQ people to murderers and thieves is pretty bigoted all by itself.

Then it's a good thing I didn't do that.

 

[DNB]

Telling me they aren't true Christians takes away personal responsibility. They are Christians. No, Jesus did not do any of those things. So why do his followers?

...you don't know? Like I said, have you never heard of charlatans or wolves in sheep's clothing?
When the police commit crimes, are you going to denounce the whole institution, or simply declare that there are a few bad and corrupt seeds in all crowds?

The New Testament has never endorsed a single act that you charge the so-called 'christians' with.

 

[DNB]

He's not worthy of it. He's jealous, vengeful, vindictive, petty and hateful. He demands worship or death by eternal fire.

The big bang and evolution is why we are here. To get a little graphic, I am here because two people had sex. Not because of God.

..and how did those two people get here? Big bang theory does not explain morality - which you so vehemently claim to have.

 

[Ashoka]

When the police commit crimes, are you going to denounce the whole institution, or simply declare that there are a few bad and corrupt seeds in all crowds?

Actually, yes, lol. I'm anti-police force. Well, this is awkward.

..and how did those two people get here? Big bang theory does not explain morality - which you so vehemently claim to have.

Why do I need a god to be moral?

 

[DNB]

Actually, yes, lol. I'm anti-police force. Well, this is awkward.

Your views are radical - you're discrediting your self.

Why do I need a god to be moral?

Because that's why you moral - you were created in His image, otherwise humans would not be having these discussions and screaming for justice - have you ever seen a dog or fish protest a wrong doing?

 

[Ashoka]

Your views are radical - you're discrediting your self.

Radical isn't bad. The police force, in my view, is a terrorist organization that wields tyrannical power over people. But I digress.

Because that's why you moral - you were created in His image, otherwise humans would not be having these discussions and screaming for justice - have you ever seen a dog or fish protest a wrong doing?

I'm moral because I know right from wrong. I don't need a God to do that. And actually, animals have morality as well. I remember watching a nature documentary on wolves. A hungry wolf happened upon a pack and tried to beg for some of their food. One wolf bared its teeth and threatened the hungry wolf. The other one shared with the hungry wolf. Elephants have been shown to have concepts of right and wrong, yet they know no deity.

We scream for justice because we are hardwired to do so. Not just for our survival, but because we understand pain and pleasure, and we understand what harms and helps someone. We don't, and never did, need a deity to teach us that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then it's a good thing I didn't do that.

Someone logged into your account and posted pretending to be you?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why do I need a god to be moral?

Personally speaking, as a former Christian, I don't believe that people need the Christian God in their lives to behave morally and to know what is right or wrong. In my opinion, Penn Jillette was spot on when he implied that people don't need God in their lives to be moral people or to prevent them from committing unspeakable acts of violence (read his quote here). I know many unbelievers who are far more moral than the majority of Christians I know. I'm sure you've met unbelievers like that too. FWIW, my life (which includes my mental health and emotional well-being) has vastly improved since I renounced my Christian faith and belief in God. As I said in this thread (read here), I turned my life around for the better and began to heal emotionally only after I renounced my belief and faith in God. In fact, it was the best decision that I've ever made for myself, and my sole regret is that I should have done it years ago rather than continuing to hold onto the false hope I had in God. I could have spared myself years of emotional distress and depression.

 

[Trailblazer]

Someone logged into your account and posted pretending to be you?

No, you completely misinterpreted and misunderstood what I said.
In short, you turned what I said into something it wasn't.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, you completely misinterpreted and misunderstood what I said.
In short, you turned what I said into something it wasn't.

I'm not sure which I should find more offensive: that you would try to gaslight me, or that you would have such a low opinion of my intelligence that you would think that this low-effort, incompetent gaslighting would convince me.

 

[F1fan]

But what is "known" has no bearing upon whether God exists or not.

It does when you base your actions in life on what you believe is dictated by a God. Gods aren't known to exist, so why would a person live via any dictates that can't be confirmed to be divine, especially immoral dictates like the anti-gay rule/law you accept?

To my mind no moral and rational person would ever accept a dictate as divine without being able to confirm it. And thus far no theists I've encountered have ever done this. You haven't.

Quite the contrary. Society has not evolved morally, society has degenerated and fallen into a decadent state when it comes to what is acceptable sexual behavior, and this decadence is a primary contributing factor for many of the ills that affect modern society.

Nonsense. Whites in the South used to be able to lynch black people for small infractions and get away with it. Today there are civil rights. Gays used to be prohibited from getting married, but today it is legal. Women have long been denied equal pay as men and there is new laws that help women in this respect. See, society is getting more moral. Maybe you are confused about immorality in society due to your religious beliefs which happen to include immoral views.

If the Baha'i Laws regarding sexual behavior were followed those ills would no longer exist and society would be transformed into a paradise. I am not primarily referring to homosexual sex, as the primary problem rests with heterosexuals, since they are the majority.

Your religion's rules for sexuality are not realistic or necessary for safety. From what I've read they are not going to work for the vast majority of people. Just another thing your Messenger got wrong.

 

[DNB]

Radical isn't bad. The police force, in my view, is a terrorist organization that wields tyrannical power over people. But I digress.



I'm moral because I know right from wrong. I don't need a God to do that. And actually, animals have morality as well. I remember watching a nature documentary on wolves. A hungry wolf happened upon a pack and tried to beg for some of their food. One wolf bared its teeth and threatened the hungry wolf. The other one shared with the hungry wolf. Elephants have been shown to have concepts of right and wrong, yet they know no deity.

We scream for justice because we are hardwired to do so. Not just for our survival, but because we understand pain and pleasure, and we understand what harms and helps someone. We don't, and never did, need a deity to teach us that.

Animals are not moral - don't confuse integrity or justice with survival and matriarchal instincts.
You are hard-wired with a conscience because God made you so - animals kill indiscriminately and lose absolutely no sleep over it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm not sure which I should find more offensive: that you would try to gaslight me, or that you would have such a low opinion of my intelligence that you would think that this low-effort, incompetent gaslighting would convince me.

And I suggest you get a dictionary. A Baha’i Law that precludes certain behaviors (and only applies to Baha’is) is not bigotry.
Are we also bigoted against murderers because there is a Baha’i Law that precludes murder?
Are we bigoted against thieves because there is a Baha’i Law that precludes stealing?

Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
bigotry means - Google Search
#204 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 6:43 PM

Comparing LGBTQ people to murderers and thieves is pretty bigoted all by itself.
#264 9-10ths_Penguin, Today at 2:46 PM

I was not comparing LGBTQ people to murderers and thieves. I was pointing out that having certain Baha’i Laws on the books is not bigotry. By definition it’s not bigotry. It is a Law that prohibits certain behaviors. You are trying to make a Law into bigotry but it won’t work. It s a Law just like any other Law that prohibits certain behaviors.

Just because there is a certain Baha'i Law on the books that in no way means that Baha'is have a obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
bigotry means - Google Search

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And I suggest you get a dictionary. A Baha’i Law that precludes certain behaviors (and only applies to Baha’is) is not bigotry.
Are we also bigoted against murderers because there is a Baha’i Law that precludes murder?
Are we bigoted against thieves because there is a Baha’i Law that precludes stealing?

Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
bigotry means - Google Search
#204 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 6:43 PM

Comparing LGBTQ people to murderers and thieves is pretty bigoted all by itself.
#264 9-10ths_Penguin, Today at 2:46 PM

I was not comparing LGBTQ people to murderers and thieves. I was pointing out that having certain Baha’i Laws on the books is not bigotry. By definition it’s not bigotry. It is a Law that prohibits certain behaviors. You are trying to make a Law into bigotry but it won’t work. It s a Law just like any other Law that prohibits certain behaviors.

Just because there is a certain Baha'i Law on the books that in no way means that Baha'is have a obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
bigotry means - Google Search

The ship has sailed on convincing me that you weren't being bigoted... especially when you just double down on your bigotry.

At this point, the question is whether or not you can be honest about the bigoted nature of what you've been saying... though the ship is rapidly sailing on that issue, too.

 

[Trailblazer]

The ship has sailed on convincing me that you weren't being bigoted...

I could not care even less what you think of me. I know myself so what others think does not matter.