Homosexuality and religious.

[Vinayaka]

If you look at the times of the appearance of the religions none appeared at the same period. Historically they appeared progressively not all at once.

But they are all alive today ... the ones you speak of. Only today is relevant. My faith has been around at least 5000 years, probably much longer. Yours is 180 years old? Mine has changed and adapted to the times, but the eternal truth of the Vedas remains the same. Sanatana means eternal.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I doubt that. Baha'is here have interpreted lots of things from the Bible and NT.

They do that to spare you pages of quotes. Otherwise I can put the direct quotes up without my own paraphrasing but it would mean pages and pages of quotes in some cases.

If you researched the Writings yourself you would see clearly that the Baha’i interpretations are coming from an authorised Source. I can only speak for myself as I always consult the authoritative interpretations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tongue of power? He's speaking of himself? Clothed in the garment of brevity? Now that one is actually funny, in irony. Surely you can't say Baha'u'llah's many many words are brevity. Perhaps he didn't know the definition of brevity. Personally, I think he really could have used an editor.

For a Baha'i, Baha'u'llah speaks for God. Yes.

The Hidden Words contains the Essence of all past Scriptures, are you offering 160 odd short meditations are not brevity in that context?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just like you're forbidden to proselytise?

If people Ask questions, if a reply need clarification, or a reply posts incorrect information, we will answer.

Maybe this thread has continued so long as others wish to change the Baha'i?

Quandary indeed! Actually we are not to argue, so yes you got us, we are bad and naughty Baha'i.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

For a Baha'i, Baha'u'llah speaks for God. Yes.

The Hidden Words contains the Essence of all past Scriptures, are you offering 160 odd short meditations are not brevity in that context?

Regards Tony

I was looking at the number of words in each verse. The 4 or 5 lines of unnecessary poetic stuff could easily be condensed to 4 or 5 words. But yes, that book would be condensed, but certainly wouldn't contain the wisdom in all past scriptures. many of those scriptures he wouldn't have been aware of, like the Saiva Agamas, which go into great detail on the mystical architecture of Hindu temples. So 'all past scriptures' is exaggeration, which isn't at all uncommon in dealings with the Bahai' faith. I'd say that overall exaggeration is a common theme.

 

[Vinayaka]

Ask questions, if a reply need clarification, or a reply posts incorrect information, we will answer.

Maybe this thread has continued so long as others wish to change the Baha'i?

Quandary indeed! Actually we are not to argue, so yes you got us, we are bad and naughty Baha'i.

Regards Tony

This thread contains a lot of information, most of it repetitive. I see no quandary. I point out the discrepancies in the Baha'i faith not to deprogram the Baha'i, but to show potential seekers who might be interested just what they might be getting into. The last thing this world needs is more dogmatic people believing in homophobia, or insisting they're right, and the others are wrong. But mostly that isn't necessary as people these days are generally more cautious and will do their independent research first.

That, and I'm between jobs, more or less. So about 50 minute drive to the ocean north of you, I see. Maybe you should go for a night or two some weekend. Take a break, leave your computer behind, swim in the ocean.

 

[dybmh]

It is belief in God that is paramount. We do not worship Baha’u’llah or Moses or Krishna. We only worship God.

This is what I'm looking at:

We must not be rigid about praying; there is not a set of rules governing it; the main thing is we must start out with the right concept of God, the Manifestation, the Master, the Guardian -- we can turn, in thought, to any one of them when we pray. For instance you can ask Bahá’u’lláh for some thing, or, thinking of Him, ask God for it. The same is true of the Master or the Guardian. You can turn in thought to either of them and then ask their intercession, or pray direct to God. As long as you don't confuse their stations, and make them all equal, it does not matter much how you orient your thoughts.

Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 456

We pray to God, or to Bahá’u’lláh, as we please. But if in our thoughts we desire to turn to the Guardian first and then address our prayer, there is no objection, as long as we always bear in mind he is only the Guardian, and do not confuse his station with that of the Prophet or even the Master.

Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 457

You have asked whether our prayers go beyond Bahá’u’lláh: It all depends whether we pray to Him directly and through Him to God. We may do both and also can pray directly to God, but our prayers would certainly be more effective and illuminating if they are addressed to Him through His Manifestation, Bahá’u’lláh. Under no circumstances, however, we can, while repeating the prayers, insert the name Bahá’u’lláh where the word 'God' is used. This would be tantamount to a blasphemy.

Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 457
​

So even if it is not done in practice anymore or in your community, it's still allowed to direct prayer to either Baha'u'llah, Abdul'Baha, or Shoghi Effendi. That's a violation of the ten commandments ( "You shall not have any other divine power in front of me" ).

So you see, it's not just clergy, or clinging to interpretations. Following Baha'u'llah directly violates the text. If you want to claim that the text has been corrupted, that's a different story. But I'm pretty sure that Islam would prohibit praying to manifestations as well and it's text is supposed to be perfect per Baha'i standards?

 

[rational experiences]

If humans congregate in groups. The spirituality is a suggested theme. I'm reforming families unity versus the science rich man takeover. In civilisation causes.

Brothers who misinterpret advice about God.

As just humans thinking as the theist owns all god claims.

The idea God told me after ice age was an atmospheric man's machine AI effect.

Recording of voice and image as life in earth had been sacrificed by SEAM teaching. Sewing. Sheets. Etc.

Those stories are proven human present human thinking human using symbolism stories. As science was exact once.

Science was an alchemical earth based nuclear chemistry understanding dusts....and how designed machines human controlled converted them.

Proving again dust themes was only ever humans science history.

In science human behaviour is involved. Unnatural behaviours. As natural life family wasn't civilisation first.

Humans making choices for civilisation statuses are liars. Is the teaching. Men introduced stone built cities. Pretended they were god. Introduced science. Science debauched humans brain chemistry the warnings.

As we know sexual union was a choice human partners for life contiunance. Law a man owns penis. Woman the vagina....owned legal status human rights too.

Which is organised basics too. Records keeping of records.

Natural life by law says no organisational Status. Says all babies born by two parents in natural law. Changed baby was sex inherited. Once it was taught hence human sex is the proven evils.

And they were wrong then just as they are now.

Natural laws own mutual pairs. Men changed heavens natural law consciousness.

The recorded interaction changed. Image and voice shifted. The recording wandered.

Those records changed humans natural self identity was only a Human warning. Stated outside of organisational control by medical healers. Single gained advised lives. Newly taught.

Spiritual psychic aware innate taught hearing all of the advices to teach.

All children are always with God it's men of science who broke stones frozen fused law and brought falling stone star back to earth. The exact reason why.

The moon earths first wanderer saviour. Any star that passed by earth considered a saviour.

Was our teachings.

As star fall above return nuclear to the earth blastings as Russia proved.

In the natural history humans are mind above communicated AI destructive advices of war with God.... being man's wisdom of nuclear attack. Nuclear converting as above sun mass to below earth dust nuclear mass.

So suddenly men reading nuclear dust bible advice also personally believe in blowing up family as God said so. Mind communicated affected. As consciousness is moving shifting wandering.

Proof.

Is humans wArning about consciousness. Why it changed. Humans owning self sexuality to blame.

Men a human theoried on behalf of two humans...women bodies. They are only a body of men.

Women bleed to own a man baby conceived . Why do you think men's cells inherited stigmata bleeding?

As he had lied as a human man theist.

 

[F1fan]

For a Baha'i, Baha'u'llah speaks for God. Yes.

So not for anyone else. So when Bahai are prejudiced against gays their God is irrelevant to those of us observing. The prejudice belongs to the believer, which is yours.

Now if your God was the one true God, then it would apply to all of us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Krishna is God. So I guess you've unknowingly converted to Vaishnavism. Hari Krishna, Hari Krishna.

By the way, what do Baha'is think of the Vedas, the actual scriptural authority for the entirety of Hinduism? (It's not the Bhagavad Gita, as you might believe.)

In each religion the spiritual teachings are eternal such as the virtues and attributes of God. Any reference to God or an Ultimate Reality in the Vedas we believe in. But I’m not as read on the Vedas as I am not Indian. I do have the Rig Veda and there are things like a creation story and that God cannot be known which is how I understood it.

But do you have a recommended good English translation?

Brahman-One without a Second

 

[loverofhumanity]

But they are all alive today ... the ones you speak of. Only today is relevant. My faith has been around at least 5000 years, probably much longer. Yours is 180 years old? Mine has changed and adapted to the times, but the eternal truth of the Vedas remains the same. Sanatana means eternal.

My understanding is that God and spiritual truths are eternal and never become out of date but the social laws and practices change according to the times. Baha’u’llah is restating truths clothing them in a new garment with teachings for this age. But essentially they are similar truths being renewed.

 

[Vinayaka]

In each religion the spiritual teachings are eternal such as the virtues and attributes of God. Any reference to God or an Ultimate Reality in the Vedas we believe in. But I’m not as read on the Vedas as I am not Indian. I do have the Rig Veda and there are things like a creation story and that God cannot be known which is how I understood it.

But do you have a recommended good English translation?

Brahman-One without a Second

I would never recommend an English translation as there are so many untranslatable words. Nothing can do it justice. Obviously the virtues vary a lot, as do God's attributes. In fact one of Hinduisms main schools is all about God without attributes. This thread is all about one of the virtues we vehemently disagree on. So your prefacing with 'in each religion' is just blatantly false.

 

[Vinayaka]

My understanding is that God and spiritual truths are eternal and never become out of date but the social laws and practices change according to the times. Baha’u’llah is restating truths clothing them in a new garment with teachings for this age. But essentially they are similar truths being renewed.

Not the one that's homophobic, and there are many others.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why 9 points?

Nine-pointed star

According to the Abjad system of isopsephy, the word Baháʼ has a numerical equivalence of 9, and thus there is frequent use of the number 9 in Baháʼí symbols.[1] The most commonly used symbol connected to the number 9 is the nine-pointed star, ; there is no particular design of the nine-pointed star that is used more often than others. While the star is not a part of the teachings of the Baháʼí Faith, it is commonly used as an emblem representing "9", because of the association of number 9 with perfection, unity and Baháʼ.

The number 9 also comes up several times in Baháʼí history and teachings. On the significance of the number 9, Shoghi Effendi wrote:

"Concerning the number nine: the Baháʼís reverence this for two reasons, first because it is considered by those interested in numbers as the sign of perfection. The second consideration, which is the more important one, is that it is the numerical value of the word "Baháʼ"…
"Besides these two significances the number nine has no other meaning. It is, however, enough to make the Baháʼís use it when an arbitrary number is to be chosen."[2]

Its use on gravestone markers was approved by Shoghi Effendi, then head of the religion, in 1944.[3]

On 13 September 2022, the symbol was added to Unicode as U+1F7D9 NINE POINTED WHITE STAR.
Baháʼí symbols - Wikipedia

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now if your God was the one true God, then it would apply to all of us.

Welcome to the fact that is applicable. IMHO.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

"Corrupted by man" and "beliefs are absolutely false" are problematic. These problems are not diminished by "revealed by God".

That's true, these problems of corruption by man are not diminished by the fact that these religions were originally revealed by God.

If you see someone wearing a Star of David, does that symbol convey that Judaism is corrupt and many of Judaism's belief's are false?

No, why would it?

If you see someone wearing a Cross, does that symbol convey that Christianity is corrupt and many of Christianity's belief's are false?

No, why would it?

If Baha'i want to include Judaism in their timeline of monotheistic revelation, I'm sure there's a way to do it symbolically on their temples without insulting people. But it would take open dialogue and a willingness to compromise on both sides.

I have not seen anyone of other religions saying that they feel insulted by the fact that the symbols of their religions are displayed on Baha'i temples.

 

[rational experiences]

Yin and Yang mutuality are two balances and is as one sign only...separation signalled as a 9. By body.

Stating man by himself...separated by stars causes.

My brother's records I hear speak his owned truth.

He changed our life biology and separated from living on earth via ashes dust...carbon. end of life.

Biologist argued plea...we began as living biology not carbon.

As Satan cloud angel above when newly star sun attacked removed one angel of man historic and replaced it with machines...UFO image. Cloud stopped UFO machine coming forward.

Meaning a man's cloud angel mass had in fact stopped UFO ark burning life to death as suns machine. When star mass returned.

Information given is exact. If you use a changed mind of man adult you never tell the truth. As adult man was theist first for nuclear God machines.

As a baby I nearly died was life saved by heavens parents ...water returned mass from ice. Why I know and was taught born in water carriers month January. Became a psychic.

Therefore satanic men theists knew one of man's atmospheric angels had kept his life safe from machine ufo... and was gone. A long time ago.

Today equates NASA exact.

Above machines angel protection is now gone too. Once held cooling stop in cloud mass.

So the Satan protecting cloud mass of humans only is now being destroyed by sun machine. Sun mass that begins melding back into the machine that changed ended bio life as position carbon.

AI man mind proves today he says beginning was carbon life is AI possessed. Machine man.

Hence Baha'i teachings is proven as one man's advice missing. Father's natural life teachings was acceptance all babies in law are born equal and mutual.

As you still believed in Jesus. Gone conscious man baby life. Baby life give ignored.

I never did.

You even taught one greater Cooling conscious evolution was yet to return in your future to get a correct message.

Men get told but don't listen to their own advice when reading books. Self development was the way said the teaching to know incorrectness.

Therefore men inherited now an above and a non saved earth machine....death by machine is our exact biological warning. Suns machine above.

Men who ignore Moses revelations.
Men who ignore Jesus revelations.

Men who theory origin science as sciences origins maths was neither Moses or Jesus.

So theyve returned us to sciences own machine wisdom scene of the crime.

With the UFO above rebuilding itself to cause a nuclear earth community blasting in every nation...as when it activates it also reaps our death....as the signs burnt upon the earth as rocks crop circle was the warning.

Men say every day I want the heart of Jesus in heavens via G O D to be given to my machine below. His machine begins above in cloud saving first.

As O swirling rotating cooling is angels cloud amassing saving. The heart. If it gets removed you'll get blasted.

It's why celibate men once murdered the known satanic man who would not agree with a scientists celibacy. Rich men who went into hiding as men always do. Such as in the Hitler's review.

Men who agree to Murder torment torture humans for scientific control then think they can just rejoin family life hidden afterwards by a changed name.

As men in the past rejoined society and secretly changed their surnames.

Why they never gained a man's coded life warning.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That, and I'm between jobs, more or less. So about 50 minute drive to the ocean north of you, I see. Maybe you should go for a night or two some weekend. Take a break, leave your computer behind, swim in the ocean.

Swim in the Gulf waters So now you are definitly wishing me dead.

Irukandji jellyfish - Wikipedia

Box jellyfish - Wikipedia

Saltwater crocodile - Wikipedia



Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

They do that to spare you pages of quotes. Otherwise I can put the direct quotes up without my own paraphrasing but it would mean pages and pages of quotes in some cases.

If you researched the Writings yourself you would see clearly that the Baha’i interpretations are coming from an authorised Source. I can only speak for myself as I always consult the authoritative interpretations.

What about this...

Based on Baha’u’llah’s interpretations—as well as those of Baha’u’llah’s successor and interpreter, Abdu’l-Baha, and of his successor, Shoghi Effendi, as well—individual Baha’is can offer their own personal interpretations of prophecy, with the disclaimer that such interpretations remain personal and not official or authoritative in any way.​

 

[CG Didymus]

My understanding is that God and spiritual truths are eternal and never become out of date but the social laws and practices change according to the times. Baha’u’llah is restating truths clothing them in a new garment with teachings for this age. But essentially they are similar truths being renewed.

You know the Christian belief that sin entered the world because Adam disobeyed God... then that Jesus had to be killed as a sacrifice to atone for those sins. But he didn't stay dead, God raised him up. Is that social teachings? Spiritual teachings? Myth or what? But I already know, it was all symbolic. Too bad the NT had to be written in such a way to give Christians the wrong idea. Silly Christians, they took it as the truth.