Homosexuality and religious.

[CG Didymus]

Science is a toolbox, a collection of methods we use to examine and understand reality. The process can help us make informed decisions about what we (subjectively) deem to be moral and why.

Religions are just a collection of often errant and archaic doctrine and dogma. Telling someone they must follow a set of rules uncritically isn't morality, its indoctrination.



Quod errat demonstrandum.

Yet, they are taught to believe in science and use it...

For Baha’is, both science and religion together constitute one great truth. In clear and uncompromising terms, the Baha’i writings exalt the position of scientific endeavor and discovery: God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions.​

 

[We Never Know]

Sounds like you're the one instigating the confusion using words in ways nobody else here uses. Nobody says 'I disagree with homosexuality' when they really mean 'I'm straight.'

Dude!!! Do you agree with everyone on everything? If not do you hate those you disagree with?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Dude!!! Do you agree with everyone on everything? If not do you hate those you disagree with?

Repeating yourself doesn't make it better.

Nobody should be surprised if 'I disagree with eating chocolate' leads to confusion because normally people would say 'I don't like the taste of chocolate' or 'eating chocolate grosses me out' not 'I disagree with chocolate.'

One is a vague statement which implies a value judgement, the other is a statement of personal taste.

Anyway, I don't care if people aren't gay, I care if people think being gay is harmful when they have no reasonable argument for declaring it to be so.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I posted that gay people can and do have children through heterosexual sex, you then posted that straw man claim, and smiley faces implying you didn't understand.

We'll simplify this then, do you accept that @loverofhumanity's claim that gay people were a threat to the future of human existence was in fact laughable nonsense, since straight people have gay children and gay people can and do have children?

One assumes your confusion is now all cleared up, and you can give a candid answer.

Without a female egg and male sperm our race cannot continue. The most natural and efficient process is through the binding of a man and a woman. Nature already provided us with this means of procreation. Same sex couples can only adopt but cannot bear children through having sex unless a female is artificially inseminated. But two men cannot produce a female egg and a male sperm naturally unless one has a sec change. Then that person is not gay anymore.

 

[We Never Know]

Repeating yourself doesn't make it better.

Nobody should be surprised if 'I disagree with eating chocolate' leads to confusion because normally people would say 'I don't like the taste of chocolate' or 'eating chocolate grosses me out' not 'I disagree with chocolate.'

One is a vague statement which implies a value judgement, the other is a statement of personal taste.

Anyway, I don't care if people aren't gay, I care if people think being gay is harmful when they have no reasonable argument for declaring it to be so.

Good grief!!
If someone says I like chocolate because its good, it not ok to say I disagree because its gross?

 

[CG Didymus]

It all depends on peoples choice. People becoming Baha’is depends entirely on choice. We are not conquerors so Baha’i laws can only apply to those who willingly accept and believe in the Faith. That’s why we have millions of Jews who reject Jesus and billions of Christians who reject Muhammad and Muslims rejecting Baha’i because there is that freedom of choice there that always has and always will be there.

Do you have a comment on this part of my post?

Even the lessor peace is only a stepping stone on the way to the most great peace. Then what? The law says homosexuality is forbidden. How will that law be enforced?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well said. However you know others won't go their own way, they must constantly grill you because of your beliefs

Yes I know. It’s because they live in such a spiritually bankrupt world that they just cannot fathom how such a deep love for God can exist.

 

[CG Didymus]

To Baha’is who wish to change.

So, why exactly should they change? Do you believe there is something wrong with them? Do they have a screw loose to what to have sex with people of the same gender?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Good grief!!
If someone says I like chocolate because its good, it not ok to say I disagree because its gross?

We get it, you're straight. You think it's gross. But it's not gross just because you think it is, and certainly not harmful just because you think it's gross. Agreed?

And saying 'I disagree with homosexuality' is still a convoluted way to express that. Lol

 

[CG Didymus]

It’s up to Baha’is if they want to change to explore different methods. But it’s still remains a choice.

So, the Faith doesn't want them to have homosexual sex. What are their choices? Get therapy? Become celibate? Go back into the closet? Marry someone of the opposite gender and ignore their homosexual feelings?

 

[We Never Know]

We get it, you're straight. You think it's gross. But it's not gross just because you think it is, and certainly not harmful just because you think it's gross. Agreed?

And saying 'I disagree with homosexuality' is still a convoluted way to express that. Lol

Dang!!!! I told you in my reply to you in post #3243 I can not agree because I think its gross. You couldnt have missed that post because you replied to it.

Its not for me, its gross but its their life!

 

[We Never Know]

We get it, you're straight. You think it's gross. But it's not gross just because you think it is, and certainly not harmful just because you think it's gross. Agreed?

And saying 'I disagree with homosexuality' is still a convoluted way to express that. Lol

Some people like eating snails because they are good.
I don't agree. I think its gross.
-do I hate snail eaters?
-am I snailophobic?

 

[CG Didymus]

It's been made illegal in many countries. So gay Baha'is who make that choice would have to break the law to do it.

Edited to add links ...Which countries have already banned conversion therapy?

Seven survivors of conversion therapy describe its lasting, damaging impact

So, what kind of "therapy" do Baha'is recommend?

 

[loverofhumanity]

These statements sound so bizzarre to me. This is a guy you have never met, as he's long dead. He could have been a total jerk for all you know. At best you love whatever personality the religion presents of him. But even at that this smacks of idol worship. I am very wary of humans who are absorbed emotionally in a guru.


There's not even video of the guy, so this is another odd statement of devotion. None of you Bahai know him. You have texts to read, that is all. You are swallowing it all hook, line and sinker.


We have. We can see many good teachings, but the fact it has a fatal moral flaw is a deal breaker. Those who want to ignore the serious moral failure in the teachings are the side with tainted morals, and that is because you value this dogma over the dignity of gay people and their freedoms.

Yes and every day I am so, so grateful that I discovered Who Baha’u’llah is. If you only knew.

 

[Vinayaka]

So, what kind of "therapy" do Baha'is recommend?

Conversion therapy. Hard to believe, eh? But then a lot is hard to believe on this topic.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, why exactly should they change? Do you believe there is something wrong with them? Do they have a screw loose to what to have sex with people of the same gender?

It is a matter between them and their beliefs. It is not for me to judge others. My job is to improve myself and make myself better.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's an interesting article. Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

 

[We Never Know]

We get it, you're straight. You think it's gross. But it's not gross just because you think it is, and certainly not harmful just because you think it's gross. Agreed?

And saying 'I disagree with homosexuality' is still a convoluted way to express that. Lol

Lets try this....

John Doe... WNK what do you think about me being gay.
WNK... Well John I disagree with living that life but its your life.

Now if I said "Well John I disagree with living that life, it makes you a bad person, you need to stop be gay and change it.

THAT'S HOMOPHOBIC! Because I not only disagree but also think they should change their life.

 

[We Never Know]

Here's an interesting article. Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

And acrophobes might be hidden skydivers

 

[CG Didymus]

Without a female egg and male sperm our race cannot continue. The most natural and efficient process is through the binding of a man and a woman. Nature already provided us with this means of procreation. Same sex couples can only adopt but cannot bear children through having sex unless a female is artificially inseminated. But two men cannot produce a female egg and a male sperm naturally unless one has a sec change. Then that person is not gay anymore.

So, is that why the Baha'i Faith, and God, say that homosexuality is "unnatural"? That what they do with their sexual parts is wrong and against what God intended them for? And God and the Baha'i Faith forbids people from doing it?

But men do have sex with men and women with women. If the behavior doesn't occur "naturally", why is it happening? But does it matter. God wants it to stop. How are his people, the Baha'is, going to stop it?