Mathematical Proof of God?

[shunyadragon]

No anger or frustration on my part either....just a little humor, sprinkled with a LOT of God.



Ya know, for what its worth...you have my respect for admitting this.

Mad props to you. I would give this post a like, but I can't give it because I only like the quote, not the post.

This world can be a cruel place.

Heheehe.



I stand by what I said.

I understand that you QM fans view Quantum Mechanics as God...you guys give it supernatural powers and have it defying logical reasoning...and even rely on "QM of the Gaps".

When science becomes to hard or you can't explain it in a classical scientific sense...all of a sudden "Heyyy, Quantum Mechanics is here to save the day", as if QM is like Superman or something.

Hahaha.

It is a crying shame, but that is ok, though.

Judgement is coming, and all of these lies being passed off as facts, along with those people who are gullible enough to believe it...will all..

This rambling post is incoherent and cannot be responded to well.

Science and Quantum Mechanics (not remotely believed as God) simply describe our physical existence and is neutral as to the existence of God, because the belief in God is a Theistic belief without objectively verifiable evidence. Scientists that believe in God and those that do not agree that science and Quantum Mechanics simply describe the nature of our physical existence as nothing more and nothing less,

It remains you lack any fundamental knowledge of science and base your view of science on an ancient religious agenda.

It remains a fact that our universe and our physical existence is 'potentially' infinite based on very basic Aristotelian math and contemporary math and science..

 

[shunyadragon]

You're overusing the nu hu response. Even for an apologist.

Nothing here and in previous posts on your part but pure WU HU without any coherent responses concerning the references provided. A good example of the three stooges is Duck, Bob, and Weave.

I am not an apologist. A problem with the English language here.

 

[shunyadragon]

That's ok, you we don't need a heads up, your post is sufficient.





Oh that's brilliant.

Your meaningless redundant smiley faces and rhetoric continue unabated without addressing the references provided,

I see a speech impairment: Smiley Face Stutter.

 

[shunyadragon]

Too facile to be meaningful.



Except the unevidenced assumption that a deity of subjective choice is that "first cause" of course, or do you think the "nu uh" argument is compelling?



Yes it is.



So his biased subjective opinion is valid. why? Oh I see you have left the actual weak argument behind and are appealing to authority. Oh, and look at the authority, jeepers...



Awesome, I can cite people who believe the world is flat. Oh, did you just switch from an appeal to authority fallacy, to an argumentum ad populum fallacy?



Nope, it was and is a first cause argument that some theists tack theistic assumptions onto, did you think blind myopic repetition of your claim would be compelling?



Aw bless, a no true Scotsman fallacy. I just used it for something else, I even quoted the original that demonstrate it was a first cause argument, and again the clue is in the title..

FIRST CAUSE....ARGUMENT...


You see, that's the trouble with absolutes, they make your arguments look silly.

First Cause for the existence of God. No one else uses this argument for any other purpose.

 

[shunyadragon]

If you go by Hindu scriptures, extraverse is not timeless. From creation to final dissolution, it is 311.04 trillion years. Then a break, which they call 'Sandhya' (the intervening period) which is equally long before the next creation. Of course, I am an atheist Hindu and I do not believe in that.

Variable inconsistent religious beliefs aside based on the science of Quantum Mechanics our physical existence is potentially boundless and infinite beyond our universe and all possible time/space dimensional universes. There is absolutely no evidence for any dimensional or temporal limit to our physical existence.

 

[F1fan]

Hah! I have the same thought regarding the claims of a timeless intelligence. Thought is not instantaneous and requires time to operate. If there is no time, there is no thought.

The Abrahamic Gods are oddly modeled after humans and all the faults humans have. It's obvious theists are adjusting their God to fit the hard questions posed to them, and none of it is based on facts and data, but on what believers create in their minds. But their solutions tend to solve one problem and then create another. It's dodgeball.

Have you also considered arguments by which omniscience means having perfect knowledge of your own actions, therefore locking you into the necessity of performing those actions and removing free will? IE, God would lack free will.

Right, and if the parents of a child dying from cancer (which was a natural part of what God created, and did so deliberately as God "has a plan for everyone") then if the parents pray to God for a miracle cure it is asking God to change what it decided to do. Now the God would know the parents would pray and to cure the child, but then why put the child and the family through all this trauma? So that could be God acting on its own script and not having to change. That also means that we humans don't have the ability to change our own minds, as God would have the script. God never gets caught off guard, right? God is never fooled by clever humans, like those who apply pascals wager. Your destiny is set at conception.

...If you can tell, this is probably one of the first times I've seen someone independently come up with an argument I also independently came to.

God set it up. It couldn't just be coincidence.

 

[F1fan]

I have a theory on this...still working out the kinks.

When you say "theory" that means you are guessing. It's not the science definition of theory.

As I noted the Abrahamic believers have tried to make their various versions of god fit certain parameters and characteristics, much of which are based on we humans, like intelligence, thought, intent, actions, decisions, justice, etc. This God is even referred to as male, which implies a penis.

I agree.

Then if your God exists outside of time how can it perform an act, and create energy and time?

And I still have never gotten an answer from a believer why this all powerful God allows children to develop cancer, and many die.

 

[F1fan]

I agree, and perhaps you should tell certain scientists to stop with the formulations of these pre-big bang models which are meant to restore an eternal existing universe.

Then you stop assuming infinite regress is impossible. Deal?

We know energy exists. we know energy can't be created or destroyed. No gods are known to exist, and no mechanism is known that could allow a god to create energy. So the most likely assumption is that energy has always existed.

There is no basis for additional assumptions, like assuming a god exists, and assuming it created/caused energy. These are unnecessary (except for theists who are desperately trying to find verification for their belief in a god).

I will say something even bolder than your suggestions.

I will say...God.

God is the agent.

And since you are a fallible mortal prone to errors of judgment, you could be wrong. There is no evidence of any gods existing, so your assumption is baseless.

Irrelevant to the fine-tuning argument.

I want to you to take all of the physical matter needed to configure a human brain.

And I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you may be able to shape and mold the perfect human brain.

Next step...

Give this brain consciousness.

Go ahead, have at it.

If you can accomplish this, not only will I be shocked, but I will be impressed..

So if you attribute all this to a god why do we see genetic defects in many children? If you are going to claim your god created brains and consciousness then it also has to be accountable for defects. This includes children with cancers. Do you accept this as part of your belief?

 

[Aupmanyav]

First Cause for the existence of God. No one else uses this argument for any other purpose.

An assertion with no evidence. A messenger is compounded assertion, still with no evidence.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Variable inconsistent religious beliefs aside based on the science of Quantum Mechanics our physical existence is potentially boundless and infinite beyond our universe and all possible time/space dimensional universes. There is absolutely no evidence for any dimensional or temporal limit to our physical existence.

I know of nothing that is boundless. Bounds are there in all things. The sun cannot be a supernova since it does not have enough mass for that. So, our physical existence (i.e., what we are constituted of, in layman's language, atoms or physical energy) according to what we know today cannot be destroyed. At the moment science does not agree to 'beyond our universe'. There is no evidence of any dimensional or temporal limit to non-existence of our physical existence. What if 'physical energy' has another phase as 'absolute nothing'? Not that we know of any such stage at the moment, but that may be another surprise in store for us.
Because without accepting possible non-existence, we cannot answer how God or energy came up. It has to be eternal with a non-existent phase.

 

[rational experiences]

What's a sink hole then?

If earth didnt have a heavens and you observe earth mass changed by sun mass. No energy....a sink hole.

Man of science says the sun is getting smaller as it consumes energy.

You do a reaction. You expect mass to not all be consumed seeing you stand upon a mass the planet.

Yet you expect it to go away so you can convert it. The human theist hence says I must cause a space myself. Begin at nothing. My applications.

To do a reaction.

If you didn't expect mass the planet to still exist after you perform a reaction to mass. Then what do you expect?

The expectation first says you know you can do a reaction to a mass...remove it's content and mass will still be stood upon after. Until sink holes form.

Seeing you are conscious where you live.

As we are all babies. The creator self in a man's conscious memory his story is our human father....never you personally. Isn't a God. You have to really have a big think about how big your human ego is.

Seeing everyday men in groups as different brothers and different DNA all want world control and one order. By their group only. Not family or mutual unity....control.

Human behaviour is always involved and it's not science. Thinking cosmic ownership surely equals that ego condition.

If civilisation didn't exist the basis for science invention...you'd just be existing only. Which is a true review science is a choice only.

 

[Kharisym]

No, sorry.
I'm honest though, about the fact that I don't comprehend it either, lol

Ah bummer. I also think I conflated you and shunyadragon This is the specific statement I wanted to learn more about:

In Quantum Mechanics at the 'Quanta level' scale, it has been objectively observed that the Quantum world that underlies our three-dimensional time/space universe does not have three dimensions and continuous time like our maco scale universe, Time only exists as a momentary time of discontinuous events of the basic particles of matter. as observed in cyclotrons.

So, shunyadragon, I'm really interested in your sources, specifically regarding the flow of time in quantum interactions at planck scales. Mind enlightening me?

 

[shunyadragon]

Ah bummer. I also think I conflated you and shunyadragon This is the specific statement I wanted to learn more about:



So, shunyadragon, I'm really interested in your sources, specifically regarding the flow of time in quantum interactions at planck scales. Mind enlightening me?

I will follow up on this, but it is late tonight,

 

[shunyadragon]

I know of nothing that is boundless. Bounds are there in all things. The sun cannot be a supernova since it does not have enough mass for that. So, our physical existence (i.e., what we are constituted of, in layman's language, atoms or physical energy) according to what we know today cannot be destroyed. At the moment science does not agree to 'beyond our universe'. There is no evidence of any dimensional or temporal limit to non-existence of our physical existence. What if 'physical energy' has another phase as 'absolute nothing'? Not that we know of any such stage at the moment, but that may be another surprise in store for us.
Because without accepting possible non-existence, we cannot answer how God or energy came up. It has to be eternal with a non-existent phase.

Nobody 'knows' of anything that IS boundless, but based on the concept of potential infinities our physical existence containing all possible universes is potentially boundless,
The concept of potential infinities has been around at least since the Greek philosophers like Aristotle. In simple terms as far as one can contemplate, count or imagine there is always potentially more beyond that

What you describe above are indeed temporal 'things in our dimensional time/space, which of course have a beginning, but from preexisting 'things.'

Our universe itself is potentially infinite if the cyclic models are found to be the best accepted, The other Big Bang models are considered to have some kind of beginning from a preexisting Quantum existence on Quantum Mechanics which is potentially boundless and timeless, All possible beginnings are than speculative with something potentially existing before,

 

[rational experiences]

A human man in memory once taught space is one flat plane. Empty. Zero nothing as zero absolute.

And bodies of mass variables separated that one plane.

Stating 0000000are in between each mass. To travel across a zero could be longer in one journey as compared to another journey I think to project inference.

Taught as space is stretched by hot mass or cold mass changing bodies as the causing.

So dimensional shifting of space is constant.

Each body mass he said is one Of yet not 1 by energy type but by inferred a god type.

As a sun god body is not comparable to a planet God body not comparable to a star god body.

As a thought is instant. I see instantly. So everything is termed instant as only presence and not past exists.

 

[Truthseeker]

This is a Baha’i article I came across. Please kindly share your views. I had it sent to me by email so there is no link to it so I had to screenshot it if that’s ok.

View attachment 65231 View attachment 65232

The whole article is here. Unfortunately it is way too long for our audience.

A Logical Proof of the Existence of God

 

[Aupmanyav]

The whole article is here. Unfortunately it is way too long for our audience.

Yeah, if it is too long, people will not like to waste time on it (just like a long video), unless they have some recommendation that it has any value. There should be an extract taking no more than 10 seconds to read or see. You could give us a gist of what it says.

"Studies reveal that marketers have just 10 seconds to grab an audience and call them to action. After these 10 seconds, the engagement drops off significantly. The axe falls. And the audience will continue to scroll down or click away." - Google Search

 

[rational experiences]

The term I am allowed to use says a man I am a God.

By type. Term history about pre God type.

A human god.

God O planet a rock god.
O sun a sun god.

Two variables both named God... came from the same natural history ....eternal body.

Human says I'm a God too. A human god. I came out of the natural eternal. But unlike the large mass bodies I didn't convert in space by burning.

Only a scientist makes comparisons by using term God as a theist.

Using that term was hence outlawed due to a theist as scientists humans who tried to compare humans natural history to mass in space. Legal terminology no man is God.

Isn't the same quote as where a human came from.

Water mass pre existed no human.
Nature gardens oxygenation of water mass pre existed.

Humans eternal body converted instantly into nearly just water with mineral dusts floating in water and other microbiology pre living.

It's why we die. We never belonged...we changed form into a lowered state.

 

[shunyadragon]

Ah bummer. I also think I conflated you and shunyadragon This is the specific statement I wanted to learn more about:



So, shunyadragon, I'm really interested in your sources, specifically regarding the flow of time in quantum interactions at planck scales. Mind enlightening me?

I found it a little difficult to find a simple layman's reference, but here goes. At the Quantum scale, measured in Chronon or Quanta time is a discontinuous discrete time is observed concerning the behavior of Quantum particles. Continuous time arrow as in our three-dimensional time/space world is not observed.



A Chronon is a proposed quantum of time, that is, a discrete and indivisible "unit" of time as part of a hypothesis that proposes that time is not continuous.

Discrete time and continuous time - Wikipedia

In simple language, A Chronon is the smallest, discrete, non-decomposable unit of time in a temporal data model. In a one-dimensional model, a chronon is a time interval or period, while in an n -dimensional model it is a non-decomposable region in n - dimensional time. Important special types of chronons include valid - time, transaction - time, and bitemporal chronons. It is not easy to see how it could possibly be recast so as to postulate only a discrete space-time (or even a merely dense one). For a set of instants to be dense, there must be an instant between any two instants. For it to be a continuum, however, something more is required—viz., that every set of instants earlier (later) than any given one should have an upper (lower) bound. It is continuity that enables modern mathematics to surmount the paradox of extension framed by the Pre-Socratic Eleatic Zeno—a paradox comprising the question of how a finite interval can be made up of dimensionless points or instants.

https://www.exactlywhatistime.com/physics-of-time/quantum-

time/#:~:text=Quanta.%20One%20of%20the%20implications%20of%20quantum%20mechanics,jump%20from%20one%20discrete%20quantum%20state%20to%20another.
An obvious question, then, would be: is time divided up into discrete quanta? According to quantum mechanics, the answer appears to be “no”, and time appears to be in fact smooth and continuous (contrary to common belief, not everything in quantum theory is quantized). Tests have been carried out using sophisticated timing equipment and pulsating laser beams to observe chemical changes taking place at very small fractions of a second (down to a femtosecond, or 10−15 seconds) and at that level time certainly appears to be smooth and continuous. However, if time actually is quantized, it is likely to be at the level of Planck time (about 10-43 seconds), the smallest possible length of time according to theoretical physics, and probably forever beyond our practical measurement abilities.

The conclusion that Quantum existence is potentially boundless (forever) in any conceptional beginning nor end as in our space/time dimensional universe.

 

[rational experiences]

Time a second owns it's origin human theist mental capacity to infer a word to a humans description. I think about time myself. Bio conscious only.

Trying to use it out of context is incorrect as it is human placed as a status I use to count time as a whole day. Yet 24 hours is 12 alight gas and 12 clear gas.

Light is supported existing already using clear gas to be light so earth time is fixed. So said the theist.

Who claims my witnessed themes are first about holiness and do not exist anywhere else. What holy human status meant