QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
This would be proof of an uncaused cause, nothing more. This uncaused cause could simply be a natural phenomenon. No god-being required whatsoever.
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Mathematical Proof of God?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
This would be proof of an uncaused cause, nothing more. This uncaused cause could simply be a natural phenomenon. No god-being required whatsoever.
Unless you and reality exists within the Gods. Because then their power is also spread to us.
I know you aren't directing that to me, but it is fun to answer. Personally I don't think that most westerners equate God and soul. Where does that idea come from? Instead of a common language about 'Soul' we have creoles mostly spun off from various points of view of Christian scripture.
Divine light is based on the assumption that we are each divine or in someway overlap with the divine. This overlap is described differently by different groups who may not use the phrase divine light. Some like to use other layered or mysterious language and will say that we are imbued with a divine spark or that we have partaken of the divine or in some other way have touched divinity. Some say we are inspired by the divine. The divine light, then, is a figure of speech about a direction from the divine to the creature by invisible means, not actually by a light source. Some do consider the mind to be that which overlaps with the divine, but some consider the mind not to do that and some other invisible part to do it. They may call this the soul or may call it the spirit or the heart or some other term if they do not think that minds are related to divinity. The terminology is chaotic in my experience, and people don't similarly use 'soul', 'heart', 'mind', 'feelings', 'thought' and 'soul'. There is not a commonly used philosophical language.
Where indeed is the garden of the soul? It depends upon whom you ask, and many people would ask you to be more clear. In clarifying your question you would answer it.
Cannot happen if a god utilises infinite energy
Suave
Simulated character
I find the Wow! signal of the terrestrial genetic code to be a pretty compelling indication of our genetic code having been created by extraterrestrial intelligence.
"The term “Wow! signal” represents a decade-long mystery in astronomy: In 1977, the astrophysicist Jerry Ehman received a strong narrowband radio signal on the frequency of the 21 cm line of hydrogen with the gigantic big-ear radio telescope in Delaware in the US state of Ohio. There seemed to be no natural explanation for the persisting 72 s signal from the Sagittarius constellation, which was 30 standard deviations above the background noise. The profile of the strong, narrow-band signal corresponds to that of a communication antenna. Its discoverer highlighted the signal on the printout with a red circle and added an expression of astonishment by noting “Wow!” In the period that followed, there was a lively debate among experts as to whether it was an artificially generated or a natural signal. Although objects like pul-sars seem to be a possible source, the controversy continues to this day.
A few years ago, a team of Kazakh scientists published a paper claiming to have discovered a Wow! signal in the genetic code of living beings. The code structure, so they claimed, is statistically so striking that its origin could be explained only by the presumption of an intelligent actor. The paper, published in Icarus, was somewhat off-topic since Icarus is a journal for planetary science rather than molecular biology or evolution. Since then, the paper has been celebrated as evidence for the extraterrestrial origin of the genetic code by support-ers of ancient astronauts and by the intelligent design movement; see, for example, here, here, and here, as well as this arti-cle in a German creationist journal. What’s it all about?
Ominous divisor 37 as a design signal
The authors of the paper are the mathematician Vladimir shCherbak from Al-Farabi University in Kazakhstan and the physicist Maxim Makukov from the Fessenkow Astrophysical Institute. The publisher of Icarus, a refereed journal, is the American Astronomical Society (AAS), an association of professional astronomers. The journal is mainly de-voted to initial publications in planetary scienceand is neither esoteric nor religious.
In order to track down the alleged Wow! signal, shCherbak and Makukov first divided the 20 genetically encoded amino acids into two groups: In the first group, they listed all amino acids that are sufficiently defined by the first two bases of a base triplet (meaning that any change of the third base would not change the amino acid) (Fig. 1). A base triplet or codon is a sequence of three bases (“letters”) on the genetic molecule DNA (or on the RNA) coding for a specific amino acid. The authors placed the remaining amino acids into a second group. Then they calculated the nucleon number (molecular weight) of every amino acid in both groups, as well as the nucleon number of every amino acid basic structure (“block nucleons”) and side chain. Finally, they sorted the numbers and added them up.
After this operation, shCherbak and Makukov came across numerical ratios in which the divisor 37 appears again and again: In the first group, the nucleon sum of all side chains is 333 (= 37 x 3²), that of all “block nucleons” 592 (= 37 x 4²), and the total 925 = (37 x 5²). Moreover: “With 037 cancelled out, this leads to 3² + 4² = 5² – representation of the Egyptian triangle…” (p. 6). The number 37 also appears in the second group; the total number of nucleons in the amino acids is 1110 (= 30 x 37).
Fig. 1. Structure of the side chains of those eight amino acids which are clearly defined by their first two codon bases. Side chains and their nucleon numbers (molecular weights) are shown in ascending order. The total is 333. However, this requires targeted manipulation (here: with proline). Further explanation in the text.
shCherbak and Makukov discuss various other examples using different sorting and exchange operations. Another one is discussed in Fig. 2. In all those cases, the divisor 37 appears prominently.
Fig. 2 There are 24 codons, each with three very different bases (A, T, G, and C). shCherbak and Makukov arranged those codons in such a way that their nucleic bases are interchanged according to certain rules: Within each “block” of 3 codons, the first nucleic base is shifted from one row to the next one onto the third position. From block to block, A is exchanged for G, and T for C (and vice versa). On the left and right column, the codons are arranged mirror-imaged. Next to each codon, it is noted which amino acid it codes for, and the molecular weight of the side chains and whole molecules is noted. In total, there are numbers that are completely divisible by 37. Source: shCherbak and Makukov, p. 5.
According to the authors, the frequent appearance of “37”, the emergence of “Egyptian triangles”, etc. are far beyond the statistical significance of randomly generated patterns. Thus, these appearances cannot be explained by natural processes since they are not relevant for biological function. The number “0” is also represented, as a corresponding symbol for start/stop codons. The authors claim: “Nature is indifferent to numerical languages contrived by intelligence to represent quantities, including zero”. Such a “privileged numerical system is therefore a reliable sign of artificiality” (p. 4). Ergo: “Whatever the actual reason behind the decimal system in the code, it appears that it was invented outside the solar system already several billions [of] years ago” (p. 8)."
Does the genetic code reveal a Wow! signal?<br/> A team of scientists claim evidence for "intelligent design" (pandasthumb.org)
Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code
Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak, Maxim A. Makukov
Publish Year: 2013
Cite as: arXiv:1303.6739 [q-bi
T]DOI: 10.1016/j.icarus.2013.02.017
Journal reference: Icarus, 2013, 224 (1), 228-242
The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code (earth-chronicles.ru)
I would think an infinite being (to us), is actually finite to itself.
Just as I am all powerful to my dog, or the ant I stepped on. But not to the Gods I worship..
I find the Wow! signal of the terrestrial genetic code to be a pretty compelling indication of our genetic code having been created by extraterrestrial intelligence.
"The term “Wow! signal” represents a decade-long mystery in astronomy: In 1977, the astrophysicist Jerry Ehman received a strong narrowband radio signal on the frequency of the 21 cm line of hydrogen with the gigantic big-ear radio telescope in Delaware in the US state of Ohio. There seemed to be no natural explanation for the persisting 72 s signal from the Sagittarius constellation, which was 30 standard deviations above the background noise. The profile of the strong, narrow-band signal corresponds to that of a communication antenna. Its discoverer highlighted the signal on the printout with a red circle and added an expression of astonishment by noting “Wow!” In the period that followed, there was a lively debate among experts as to whether it was an artificially generated or a natural signal. Although objects like pul-sars seem to be a possible source, the controversy continues to this day.
A few years ago, a team of Kazakh scientists published a paper claiming to have discovered a Wow! signal in the genetic code of living beings. The code structure, so they claimed, is statistically so striking that its origin could be explained only by the presumption of an intelligent actor. The paper, published in Icarus, was somewhat off-topic since Icarus is a journal for planetary science rather than molecular biology or evolution. Since then, the paper has been celebrated as evidence for the extraterrestrial origin of the genetic code by support-ers of ancient astronauts and by the intelligent design movement; see, for example, here, here, and here, as well as this arti-cle in a German creationist journal. What’s it all about?
Ominous divisor 37 as a design signal
The authors of the paper are the mathematician Vladimir shCherbak from Al-Farabi University in Kazakhstan and the physicist Maxim Makukov from the Fessenkow Astrophysical Institute. The publisher of Icarus, a refereed journal, is the American Astronomical Society (AAS), an association of professional astronomers. The journal is mainly de-voted to initial publications in planetary scienceand is neither esoteric nor religious.
In order to track down the alleged Wow! signal, shCherbak and Makukov first divided the 20 genetically encoded amino acids into two groups: In the first group, they listed all amino acids that are sufficiently defined by the first two bases of a base triplet (meaning that any change of the third base would not change the amino acid) (Fig. 1). A base triplet or codon is a sequence of three bases (“letters”) on the genetic molecule DNA (or on the RNA) coding for a specific amino acid. The authors placed the remaining amino acids into a second group. Then they calculated the nucleon number (molecular weight) of every amino acid in both groups, as well as the nucleon number of every amino acid basic structure (“block nucleons”) and side chain. Finally, they sorted the numbers and added them up.
After this operation, shCherbak and Makukov came across numerical ratios in which the divisor 37 appears again and again: In the first group, the nucleon sum of all side chains is 333 (= 37 x 3²), that of all “block nucleons” 592 (= 37 x 4²), and the total 925 = (37 x 5²). Moreover: “With 037 cancelled out, this leads to 3² + 4² = 5² – representation of the Egyptian triangle…” (p. 6). The number 37 also appears in the second group; the total number of nucleons in the amino acids is 1110 (= 30 x 37).
Fig. 1. Structure of the side chains of those eight amino acids which are clearly defined by their first two codon bases. Side chains and their nucleon numbers (molecular weights) are shown in ascending order. The total is 333. However, this requires targeted manipulation (here: with proline). Further explanation in the text.
shCherbak and Makukov discuss various other examples using different sorting and exchange operations. Another one is discussed in Fig. 2. In all those cases, the divisor 37 appears prominently.
Fig. 2 There are 24 codons, each with three very different bases (A, T, G, and C). shCherbak and Makukov arranged those codons in such a way that their nucleic bases are interchanged according to certain rules: Within each “block” of 3 codons, the first nucleic base is shifted from one row to the next one onto the third position. From block to block, A is exchanged for G, and T for C (and vice versa). On the left and right column, the codons are arranged mirror-imaged. Next to each codon, it is noted which amino acid it codes for, and the molecular weight of the side chains and whole molecules is noted. In total, there are numbers that are completely divisible by 37. Source: shCherbak and Makukov, p. 5.
According to the authors, the frequent appearance of “37”, the emergence of “Egyptian triangles”, etc. are far beyond the statistical significance of randomly generated patterns. Thus, these appearances cannot be explained by natural processes since they are not relevant for biological function. The number “0” is also represented, as a corresponding symbol for start/stop codons. The authors claim: “Nature is indifferent to numerical languages contrived by intelligence to represent quantities, including zero”. Such a “privileged numerical system is therefore a reliable sign of artificiality” (p. 4). Ergo: “Whatever the actual reason behind the decimal system in the code, it appears that it was invented outside the solar system already several billions [of] years ago” (p. 8)."
Does the genetic code reveal a Wow! signal?<br/> A team of scientists claim evidence for "intelligent design" (pandasthumb.org)
Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code
Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak, Maxim A. Makukov
Publish Year: 2013
Cite as: arXiv:1303.6739 [q-bi
DOI: 10.1016/j.icarus.2013.02.017
Journal reference: Icarus, 2013, 224 (1), 228-242
The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code (earth-chronicles.ru)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2017-06-wow-mystery-space.amp
Wow! Has been proven more or less to be a comet that was unknown at the time.
"The team reports that radio signals from 266/P Christensen matched those from the Wow! signal 40 years ago. To verify their results, they tested readings from three other comets, as well, and found similar results. The researchers acknowledge that they cannot say with certainty that the Wow! signal was generated by 266/P Christensen, but they can say with relative assurance that it was generated by a comet"
Ah, i think infinite is infinite, i have no reason to think otherwise.
I can't think from the infinite perspectives of the Gods. And only from my own finite perspective
I liken it to the bacteria in my gut, trying to determine the physics of a wind storm. Of which they would have almost no experience of. Because they don't happen within the body/gut (aka universe) directly.
Infinity is a fluffy vague concept imo. Our brains cannot fully grasp it's reality (kind of liem the Gods).
Like the term "forever". It's not really knowable or expressable to us.
Suave
Simulated character
Comet Likely Didn't Cause Bizarre 'Wow!' Signal (But Aliens Might Have)
Comet Likely Didn't Cause Bizarre 'Wow!' Signal (But Aliens Might Have) | Live Science
why the wow! signal wasn't just a rogue comet - [ weird things ] (worldofweirdthings.com)
Both of those are way too pop sci. For me to trust.
I look at it as big... Very big...
Or the other way sm... No, i cannot comprehend of infinity small.
I can't think from the infinite perspectives of the Gods. And only from my own finite perspective
I liken it to the bacteria in my gut, trying to determine the physics of a wind storm. Of which they would have almost no experience of. Because they don't happen within the body/gut (aka universe) directly.
To the bacteria in your gut may consider the space it is in as big but it's still finite
But just in case from one link.
"But Ehman isn't convinced it's aliens, either. There are many phenomena that show sudden appearances and disappearances of radio signals, including fast radio bursts (FRBs), which are mysterious radio bursts with hotly-debated astrophysical origins that generate irregular signals that last only milliseconds. If the the Big Ear picked up only the tail end of such an emission, the data could look similar to the Wow! signal, Ehman speculated."
"The issue with the feed horns is something no one can explain, including me," Paris said. "There is some data out there to suggest the issue is at the telescope end and not the phenomenon itself." So it's possible that the signal could have been caused by a glitch in the Big Ear telescope."
Finite to us. Because we can measure it's bounds.
Not finite to the bacterium within it.
Suave
Simulated character
"In 2017, Antonio Paris, Assistant Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics at St. Petersburg College, Florida,[31] proposed that the hydrogen cloud surrounding two comets, 266P/Christensen and 335P/Gibbs, now known to have been in the same region of the sky, could have been the source of the Wow! signal.[32][33][34] This hypothesis was dismissed by astronomers, including members of the original Big Ear research team, as the cited comets were not in the beam at the correct time. Furthermore, comets do not emit strongly at the frequencies involved, and there is no explanation for why a comet would be observed in one beam but not in the other.[35][36][37]"
- Dixon, Robert S, Dr. "Rebuttal of the claim that the "WOW!" signal was caused by a comet". NAAPO. North American Astrophysical Observatory. Retrieved June 13, 2017.
- ^ Emspak, Jesse (January 11, 2016). "Famous Wow! signal might have been from comets, not aliens". New Scientist. Retrieved June 13, 2017.
- ^ Mack, Eric (June 14, 2017). "Aliens could still explain the 'Wow signal,' scientists say". CNET. Retrieved May 31, 2021.
- ^ Jump up to:a b c
Suave
Simulated character
No, the WOW signal was not an FRB. The Wow signal lasted for about 72 seconds and was less than 10 kHz in bandwidth (at about 1420.4 MHz)
That's gibberish to me. And anyone that isn't an astronomer.