Questions that believers cannot answer

[Trailblazer]

Why follow the oughts and rules of such a being?

You tell me and then we'll both know. Just be glad you are an atheist.

Here is the drill. God created a world in which humans have to suffer and then we have to pray to God to help us with the suffering that he ensured we would have to endure...

Any believer who cannot see what is wrong with that needs a course in logic!

 

[Trailblazer]

Why follow the oughts and rules of such a being?

I just thought of an answer to your question. I cannot speak for other believers but I follow God because I am afraid of Him. I am sure you have heard the expression Fear of God.

 

[ppp]

You tell me and then we'll both know. Just be glad you are an atheist.

No. I mean what motivates you to follow such a being? Why do you do it?

If I was a theist I would not.

Here is the drill. God created a world in which humans have to suffer and then we have to pray to God to help us with the suffering that he ensured we would have to endure...

Do you think God helps you with suffering?

I suffer, and it never even occurs to me to pray. I turn to my friends and to my own resources. I don't seem to suffer any worse for fare any better than those who pray.

Does the prayer do anything?

 

[ppp]

I just thought of an answer to your question. I cannot speak for other believers but I follow God because I am afraid of Him. I am sure you have heard the expression Fear of God.

I have. And I have encountered it many, many times. a lot of atheists I know who have deconverted from Christianity still fear hell. It is a form of PTSD. I was fortunate enough to escape that particular mind worm.

People who are afraid of elevators know intellectually elevators are safe, but fear is not an intellectual process. It is a tool of sadists and tyrants.

Do you trust God? If someone were to promise me that they would not hurt me if I follow their rules, and that being had God's track record, I would not consider that beings word of any value.

 

[Trailblazer]

No. I mean what motivates you to follow such a being? Why do you do it?

Simply put, because I believe God exists and since I do, turning away from Him could have dire consequences.... that is the fear of God part.

If I was a theist I would not.

If you were a theist you would follow God, that is is what theists do.

Do you think God helps you with suffering?

Yes, I do, but not always in ways that can be seen immediately. Sometimes I have to look really hard to see the help that was offered and sometimes it is really obvious. Invariably, God's help comes through other people who help me and I believe God has a part in why they show up right when I need them. This has happened especially when I cry out in desperation, not really a prayer, rather a cry for help.

I suffer, and it never even occurs to me to pray. I turn to my friends and to my own resources. I don't seem to suffer any worse for fare any better than those who pray.

Well, if you don't believe that God exists I don't know why you would pray, or believe that God would help you.
But I believe that God would help you even if you do not believe in Him since God loves everyone, not just believers.
I also turn to other resources, friends, counselors, or whoever I can find. I don't just rely upon prayer.

Does the prayer do anything?

I don't think anyone can really know, all we can do is believe. I believe it does because my religion teaches that. I have not prayed much until lately but now I am desperate so I started to pray all the time. I figure it cannot hurt and it might help. I believe God knows everything I am going through and everything that is in my mind, but since my religion says God wants us to pray that is an extra measure I can take to stack the deck in my favor.

The other thing is that an omnipotent can turn the ship around if He chooses to so if I pray a lot that gives me hope that at least I did all I can do. I do not expect a miracle but only God can give me one, if He chooses to.

 

[ppp]

If you were a theist you would follow God, that is is what theists do.

Not at all. That is just the mindset of many religions. To be a theist simply means that one believes that a god exists. There is no inherent imperative in that bare belief to follow that god. As for instance, a deist is a theist, does o not follow the god or gods that he thinks exists. A Panentheist believes that the universe is God, but does not necessarily worship it. And then there are forms of Paganism where during a rite one becomes the goddess; the sapient will of the universe. And after that rite, that will goes away.

I cannot think of a god or goddess from human history that I would worship or follow.

Yes, I do, but not always in ways that can be seen immediately. Sometimes I have to look really hard to see the help that was offered and sometimes it is really obvious. Invariably, God's help comes through other people who help me and I believe God has a part in why they show up right when I need them. This has happened especially when I cry out in desperation, not really a prayer, rather a cry for help.
Well, if you don't believe that God exists I don't know why you would pray, or believe that God would help you.
I also turn to other resources, friends, counselors, or whoever I can find. I don't just rely upon prayer.

Interesting. Do you think that God gives me support even though I do not pray, or even believe that he exists?
As the average theist is no better equipped to cope than the average atheist, I don't see the value of prayer.

 

[rational experiences]

As a human born a baby I realise we get indoctrinated.

Natural is natural first.

I saw bad human behaviour by various humans who said God owned all laws.

So being told in a singing gospel bible preaching church I visited. If I didn't believe in God then lightning would strike me dead.

Hence I was then so afraid to walk outside as I didn't Bieber. I didn't believe. Don't know why you interject with Bieber brother. Do you think he's Communicating a code image to find?

I therefore began my own research as I didn't believe we just died and that was all there is. To existing consciously. As it's obvious to love you have to want to be loving.

I learnt men fought men. Men in a secret order said holy Sion. Past and present just via human chosen God themed sciences.

As to see dust you live owning sight and live in the place where you see dusts. Humans. By seeing the dust. Hence to observe see means exact place now exact advice now. Natural.

So I read a lot of religious science human stories stating once science was expressed as gods terms. Thesis.

Not too difficult to reason they did. Science owned as men and human brothers agreed the expressed gods terms. Science of God.

Science said it knew laws.

Yet naturally anything is everything and not of separate terms.

So basic thoughts human owned said what a liar a theist then a scientist is.

History of cults groups was enforced or by behaviour that reject human rights.

So it was obvious humans use and lived and express...expressed bad group behaviour. Just on and by human choice. Groups ensured it.

And it's humans wielding earths powers whom we fear. Gods powers.

So if I symbolise my taught human warning ...fear God or be struck by gods created lightning.

I can use another idea.
Humans knew gods terms as holy and write a document that said dont give God any name.

I see science had did and still tries.

They say by theorising natural heavens our bio life position I'm the first owner. Human stated exact.....dominion owner.

I believe I can invent eletricity without taking it from mass. Says man just thinking today.

Yet they don't own anything as science when it's said.

As earth owns all the elements of any made mans machine.

So obviously they expect life to convert bodily as we're physical in heavens not machines. Into electricity.

As advice and data is exactly inferred and by science placed to earths mass.

Biology owns the heavens position.

So if a human theories lightning as a first objective. Electricity. To invent by all determined man string's as thoughts only about God...he wants control of it by invention.

To own causing it himself. So how do you remove gods owned natural control? Remembering he chose to compare his bio thought as electrical himself. He gives it the term. As just a human.

If a God existed by sight we are just a human owning no separation terms.

As natural law owns it already. Life. And law causes lightning.

So maybe being struck by lightning by not fearing God is a real human warning.

By evangelical human awareness.

As once temples on mountains cooled their transmitters in the clouds. If cloud mass came down to ground held to cool machines mass transmitters we then can't see.

Light condition seeing gets blocked out.

It would block out the light.

I wonder if gods old ark cloud mass would cool the natural pyramid ∆ peak then. You know pyramid thesis. Or would God strike it into a hot melt attack like before!

Seeing clouds protect bio life from above burning.

Might be why fear of God is a scientific warning only.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have. And I have encountered it many, many times. a lot of atheists I know who have deconverted from Christianity still fear hell. It is a form of PTSD. I was fortunate enough to escape that particular mind worm.

People who are afraid of elevators know intellectually elevators are safe, but fear is not an intellectual process. It is a tool of sadists and tyrants.

I know many atheists who were raised as Christians and escaped in adulthood. I know them mostly from the forums I was on before I came here. I have posted mostly to atheists on all the forums I have been on for nine years. Although I have also posted to some Christians, that never lasts long once they find out what Baha'is believe.

I am not afraid of hell the way Christians are because Baha'is do not believe in that kind of hell.
Baha'is believe that hell is distance from God so rejecting God would create distance and that would be hell.

I believe that God would understand why I turned away, if I turned away. I have trouble believing God is loving because of all the suffering in this world, but I believe that God is merciful and compassionate. OTOH it behooves me to keep trying to get close to God and love God for my own sake, not for God's sake, because God does not need my love, since God has no needs.

Do you trust God? If someone were to promise me that they would not hurt me if I follow their rules, and that being had God's track record, I would not consider that beings word of any value.

I do trust God. I am not sure what rules you are referring to, I guess you mean God's Laws and I try to follow them.

If by track record you what the OT says God did, I do not believe that represents God's track record but rather it is an athropomorphism if God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not at all. That is just the mindset of many religions. To be a theist simply means that one believes that a god exists. There is no inherent imperative in that bare belief to follow that god. As for instance, a deist is a theist, does o not follow the god or gods that he thinks exists. A Panentheist believes that the universe is God, but does not necessarily worship it. And then there are forms of Paganism where during a rite one becomes the goddess; the sapient will of the universe. And after that rite, that will goes away.

I cannot think of a god or goddess from human history that I would worship or follow.

Well, I said that without thinking of all the other non-Abrahamic religions who do not necessarily follow God, but rather just believe in God.

I do not think of a deist as a theist, I think of a theist as a person who believes that God communicates to humans and a deist as a person who believes God has no interaction with this world or any of creation.

Interesting. Do you think that God gives me support even though I do not pray, or even believe that he exists?
As the average theist is no better equipped to cope than the average atheist, I don't see the value of prayer.

I believe that God helps everyone even if they don't believe in Him but believers get more help because they pray.

The average probably has more ability to cope than the average theist since the atheist has learned to be self-reliant. That is what I have observed and I know as many or more atheists as theists from forums.

 

[rational experiences]

Obviously the natural mind knows about the separation of the God in heavens that protected us. Causing distance of gods ownership is where cloud mass first belongs.

A long way away from humans.

Above us is cloud.
Below us is Rock.

Two different gods terms. Protection of life by a sealed convening status.

I never believed in a human hell either until my life bio body got brain burnt prickled attacked.

Then I realised...I now knew what the ancient humanity had suffered.

As modern technology wasn't making philosophers gold by trying to keep pressures applied artificially. They hadn't owned God gold. Why GOD and gold are similar references. Law.

Modern power plant is implementing cooling pressure change is internally. Pyramid was exterior.

Trying to control an atmospheric pressure was a ludicrous idea. As empty space owned rocks pressures. Not a heavens.

A human can only discuss a term by being given the demon strata ion.

Seeing ions man said was only held in rock. As the vacuum void had held it. Into rocks origin form.

When you burn mass they get released.

Earths Rock mass isn't burning.

Earth owned origins gods rock hell. Historic only.

Romans taught about above Heavens hell. As they had been attacked by it was the teaching.

Why their advice is different to Baha'i.

 

[KWED]

Donating is good no matter what is the charity organisation. This is not an example of refraining from a good action.

You misunderstand.
If I only donate to one charity (a good action), then I am choosing to not donate to all the others (refraining from a good action).
Therefore by your argument, every time we choose to not donate to a charity we are committing an evil act. Which is obvious nonsense.

 

[KWED]

Jesus healed deformed people,

Why did god make them deformed in the first place?

 

[KWED]

Please post when ignoring has happened because I know of No manufacturer that has done that.

I have had several occasions where I have had refunds or warranty work done even though I wasn't technically covered. The supplier made an exception. It happens all the time.

 

[PearlSeeker]

You misunderstand.
If I only donate to one charity (a good action), then I am choosing to not donate to all the others (refraining from a good action).
Therefore by your argument, every time we choose to not donate to a charity we are committing an evil act. Which is obvious nonsense.

This is not how I meant.

 

[KWED]

God "IS" love. God 'has' wisdom, God 'has' mercy, God 'has' justice..... but what stops Him is that God "IS" love.
God is Not a Bully. God did Not bully or force Satan to turn himself into a sinning Satan - James 1:13-15.
Satan challenged God that under adverse conditions no one would worship or serve God.
'Touch our flesh.....' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve or love God - Job 2:4-5.
Both the man Job and Jesus under suffering conditions proved Satan wrong. Satan is the Liar.

A bunch of meaningless platitudes that do not answer my questions.

If god doesn't like what satan does, why doesn't he stop him?
Either god can't stop satan, or he doesn't want to stop satan.

 

[PearlSeeker]

So you believe it's God's fault and not mankind's fault? Is it God's fault that men and women pick up arms to kill national enemies, including men, women and children?

Let's take the example from the Shack. Serial killer kidnaps and slaughters... a little girl.

If you were there when this happened would you let the serial killer do his thing and just say it is not your fault
OR
would you intervene and save the girl?

 

[KWED]

One would still be just a puppet.

Why? You haven't explained this.
There would still be the ability to choose from any number of different actions at any given time.

Does the fact that [concept that has no meaning to us because it doesn't exist] doesn't exist mean that we don't have free will and are just puppets?
Obviously not.
Same would apply if the concept of evil had never existed.

 

[KWED]

No. Regardless of what many think, I believe the Bible is detailed and offers a reasonable hope for mankind.

Just because someone believes in something doesn't make it true.

 

[KWED]

So you believe it's God's fault and not mankind's fault? Is it God's fault that men and women pick up arms to kill national enemies, including men, women and children?

Whose fault is it when a child is born with a congenital condition that means they will dies in great suffering, god or man?

 

[KWED]

No, not “tutored by god”, per se, but taught by those who worship Him, and Him alone, as Exodus 20 says. Coupled with John 14:6 & John 3:16.
it’s quite simple, really. The difficult part is keeping obedient to them, while living in this world.

More question begging. You are just assuming that the people teaching you are right. They could well be wrong. How would you know if you simply accept what they say as gospel (pun intended).

OK, then… what Jesus said at Matthew 25:33-40; he mentioned “sheep” & his “brethren”. Who are these two groups? If God ‘guides’ you, you should know.

But really, I answered that already… Hebrews 11:6. Your statements aver that you don’t.

If god is guiding me, then whatever answer I give will be correct, even if it contradicts what you believe. Simply believing that you are right don't make you right.