There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

What you’re saying is since there are different denominations then the Bible is at fault. What I’m saying is the Bible is clear and men are at fault in their division or exalting their preferences and causing division.

Since there are 45k varyingly different sects and denominations globally, your claim simply makes no rational sense. Even if we accepted for the sake of argument that human fallibility was the reason 44999 sects and denominations misinterpreted the bible, this would still strongly suggest the bible was unreliable and open to incorrect interpretation.

I believe this has been pointed out enough times now, for you to stop tap dancing around the point, as it's clear you have no cogent argument or objective evidence to challenge this obvious inference.

 

[Sheldon]

Your lust brother, you already told me about that and you don’t even see that. Then you say it appears I’m hopeless because I have eternal life and free. Ok well I see…

I don't see how lust is harmful per se, but to be clear lust is defined as a strong sexual attraction. I don't see how acting on lust is necessarily harmful either, as long we are talking about consenting adults, and no one is being harmed coerced or exploited. These are largely outdated doctrines from archaic patriarchal Bedouin societies.

 

[Sheldon]

No I don’t lust as much as any other man, I used to and viewing pornography etc. But I got delivered from that. Freedom to serve God is true freedom and not a slave to sin anymore.

I don't believe your religions has stopped you finding others sexual attractive, and that is what lust is.

 

[sojourner]

I didn’t say I was the only one who understands Scripture. Born again believers do because they have the Holy Spirit as their teacher.
You and other atheists and skeptics haven’t proven or shown you understand the Scriptures. For example do you know the difference between the Old Covenant of the Law and the New Covenant that Jesus instituted at the Passover?
Doesn’t seem like it because you keep getting mixed up and see it as a contradiction in the Bible.
God is progressive like that

There is theological understanding and factual understanding. Thus far, I don’t see that you’ve demonstrated either in this thread. Those of us who study and exegete biblical texts for a living, and who do have the understanding of Holy Spirit, as confirmed by ordination, and who are spiritual teachers understand the nature of the texts and the legitimate waiting they may be interpreted.

 

[sojourner]

Don’t because correct interpretation about what?
That salvation is found in Jesus Christ and Him alone, that no one comes to the Father except through Him?
That you must be born again?
That’s the main test so let’s start there, which Christians disagree with that?

I do. At least I believe I disagree with the way you probably believe those things.

 

[sojourner]

Oh please.
You Christians can't even decide amongst yourselves which are the correct interpretations, which is the entire point. I know you want to avoid this point at all costs, but I'm not going to let you.

The trick is that there is no one, “correct” interpretation. The texts are multivalent. But that’s the problem with the sola scriptura heresy. It boxes one in to dogmas that don’t really serve any useful purpose.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Being tempted is not lusting, lusting would be actively looking at pornography and giving yourself over to the temptation.
I take every thought captive and use the Word of God to defeat Satanic attacks.

Nope. You do not get to make up your own definitions. Languages do not work that way.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The trick is that there is no one, “correct” interpretation. The texts are multivalent. But that’s the problem with the sola scriptura heresy. It boxes one in to dogmas that don’t really serve any useful purpose.

Even worse at times. It can make one's religion self refuting.

 

[sojourner]

Even worse at times. It can make one's religion self refuting.

Only if one holds too tightly to “facts” as “proof.” Xy isn’t about “proving” anything.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only if one holds too tightly to “facts” as “proof.” Xy isn’t about “proving” anything.

But then you probably do not claim that your religion is the One True ReligionTM I am not into "proof" either when it comes to religion. No one religion can be proven to be right, but some very specific ones can be proven to be wrong. If one insists that one's religious beliefs tell one that the Earth has to be flat then that religion has been proven wrong. That is the sort of claim that no religion should make.

 

[ElishaElijah]

There is theological understanding and factual understanding. Thus far, I don’t see that you’ve demonstrated either in this thread. Those of us who study and exegete biblical texts for a living, and who do have the understanding of Holy Spirit, as confirmed by ordination, and who are spiritual teachers understand the nature of the texts and the legitimate waiting they may be interpreted.

How were you born again and given the Holy Spirit?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I do. At least I believe I disagree with the way you probably believe those things.

If you disagree with that Salvation is only found through Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross you aren’t a believer, but something else.
“This Jesus is the stone rejected by you builders, which has become the cornerstone. There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:11-12‬ ‭CSB‬‬

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope. You do not get to make up your own definitions. Languages do not work that way.

Then stop making up your own definitions for words

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then stop making up your own definitions for words

That has been your sin all along, not that of others.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

Why does it sound like you're trying to convince yourself?

I'm a Christian because I have my experiences with the Lord and He makes Himself known in my life in various ways. There was also much studying and exploring of other religions and their teachings I did and I ended up rejecting all of them, finding Christianity superior. I questioned it and argued about it in my head and elsewhere. But it stood up to it all and here I am. I went back to Mass for the first time in about 5 years on Sunday. And I was not really raised anything, so it has nothing to do with upbringing or geography. It was my idea to convert to Catholicism in my teens. No one pressured me into it.

 

[sojourner]

But then you probably do not claim that your religion is the One True ReligionTM I am not into "proof" either when it comes to religion. No one religion can be proven to be right, but some very specific ones can be proven to be wrong. If one insists that one's religious beliefs tell one that the Earth has to be flat then that religion has been proven wrong. That is the sort of claim that no religion should make.

I tend more toward panentheism and universalism.

 

[sojourner]

How were you born again and given the Holy Spirit?

Immaterial. Neither you nor your narrow viewpoint have any authority in this matter.

 

[sojourner]

If you disagree with that Salvation is only found through Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross you aren’t a believer, but something else.
“This Jesus is the stone rejected by you builders, which has become the cornerstone. There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:11-12‬ ‭CSB‬‬

Nope. A narrow interpretation of a few bible verses is not efficacious in making that determination. Ones status as a believer isn’t predicated upon what one believes about what the Bible says. People were being saved long before there was a Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Immaterial. Neither you nor your narrow viewpoint have any authority in this matter.

The Word of God is the authority for a believer, if you’ve abandoned that you’re lost. Also, Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Him.
How are you able to come to the Father? You said you study the Bible for a living? Doesn’t sound like it.

 

[sojourner]

The Word of God is the authority for a believer, if you’ve abandoned that you’re lost. Also, Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Him.
How are you able to come to the Father? You said you study the Bible for a living? Doesn’t sound like it.

No it isn’t. The Bible is one authority, but that authority is in conjunction with other authorities, and is tempered by its limitations. The Bible is neither perfect, nor infallible.

No, somebody claimed that Jesus said that. Ask any Jew. They don’t need Jesus in order to approach God.

Happily, your limited perceptions have no bearing on the reality of my profession.