Non Christians: if the Christian God is real...

[sun rise]

I don't know what is meant by "Christian God". I'll guess that you're referring to God as described or referred to in the NT. Without getting into details to me this: Jesus acted to fulfill the will of God. So when he spoke the Sermon on the Mount it was speaking God's will and most importantly his actions were fulfilling God's will.

From that perspective, I would not become a Christian because the theological doctrine of what it means to be a Christian is not something I accept. Being a follower of the Christ on the other hand is entirely different.

 

[Secret Chief]

I’m asking non Christians this hypothetical. If the Christian God was undoubtedly real, would you become a Christian? Let’s say the Christian God proved Himself to you, He does whatever He has to to make you believe. Maybe the sky was ripped open in front of you and Jesus Christ poked His head out and said “hey”.
I saw someone say that “even if he was real, he wouldn’t meet my moral standards.” Is this true for you? The God of the Bible does some pretty gnarly stuff. And He commanded the Israelites to do some gnarly stuff with His law.
For me, I think I would serve Him. I would suspend my understanding of moral standards I suppose. Allow myself to know that I have a subjective perspective. What about you though? Even if He is real, would you want to be His follower?
I am unsure of my position. Jehovah is mighty but arguably immoral from our human perspective. Jesus Christ is great though, died for us and stuff.

If God has sovereign power over His creation and has delegated the authority to mankind to have dominion over "the animals" then frankly he can go **** himself. Just my opinion.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Has the OP ever considered the idea that a Christian is a Christian because he or she believes? If God revealed Himself to you, you would know God. And as far as I know, knowing God turns you into a prophet, not a Christian... Although you'd be a Christian prophet...

 

[nPeace]

Would have to prove they weren't the same petty God of the Bible. Or they'd at least have a lot of explaining to do. I don't like the biblical God so hopefully there are not one in the same.

Would you mind my asking, why don't you like the Biblical God

 

[Nakosis]

Would you mind my asking, why don't you like the Biblical God

I don't like the idea of letting someone else pay for my debts.

 

[Trailblazer]

And I would ask this God how He created The Omniverse. I know I wouldn't be able to understand his answer and the language would probably be foreign to me, but that is something I would need to know to convert.

Why would you need to know that in order to convert, especially since you said you know you would not be able to understand it?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Why would you need to know that in order to convert, especially since you said you know you would not be able to understand it?

Because The Omniverse is God to me. God would have to tell me how He created It, otherwise The Omniverse will always have the upper hand. And even if I don't fully understand what he says, there could be reassurances and nods to help me comprehend parts of His language.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I’m asking non Christians this hypothetical. If the Christian God was undoubtedly real, would you become a Christian? Let’s say the Christian God proved Himself to you, He does whatever He has to to make you believe. Maybe the sky was ripped open in front of you and Jesus Christ poked His head out and said “hey”.
I saw someone say that “even if he was real, he wouldn’t meet my moral standards.” Is this true for you? The God of the Bible does some pretty gnarly stuff. And He commanded the Israelites to do some gnarly stuff with His law.
For me, I think I would serve Him. I would suspend my understanding of moral standards I suppose. Allow myself to know that I have a subjective perspective. What about you though? Even if He is real, would you want to be His follower?
I am unsure of my position. Jehovah is mighty but arguably immoral from our human perspective. Jesus Christ is great though, died for us and stuff.

Let's put it this way.

Only a god would ever have the capability and means to convince me.

It will never be a human on a 'gods' behalf.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because The Omniverse is God to me. God would have to tell me how He created It, otherwise The Omniverse will always have the upper hand. And even if I don't fully understand what he says, there could be reassurances and nods to help me comprehend parts of His language.

How do you define the Omniverse?
If the Omniverse is God are you saying that God created Himself?
If God exists, why don't you think that God would always have the upper hand?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

How do you define the Omniverse?

Every Universe, Multiverse, Metaverse, Xenoverse, and Hyperverse combined.

If the Omniverse is God are you saying that God created Himself?

Doesn't everything?

If God exists, why don't you think that God would always have the upper hand?

Because The Omniverse contains, in my opinion, EVERYTHING. The only way God could be God if God was the God of The Omniverse, not just a local planet, galaxy or even Universe. It would have to effectively demonstrate that it isn't a local God but a God for everything. Otherwise, He is just a deity I don't need to be bothered with.

 

[Trailblazer]

Every Universe, Multiverse, Metaverse, Xenoverse, and Hyperverse combined.

So you are saying that the Omniverse is everything that exists?

Doesn't everything?

Are you saying that everything creates itself?

Because The Omniverse contains, in my opinion, EVERYTHING. The only way God could be God if God was the God of The Omniverse, not just a local planet, galaxy or even Universe. It would have to effectively demonstrate that it isn't a local God but a God for everything. Otherwise, He is just a deity I don't need to be bothered with.

Yes, I believe that God is the God of the Omniverse, as you defined the Omniverse, since God is the God of EVERYTHING in existence. If God is not the God of the Omniverse, He is just a deity I don't need to be bothered with.

If a God of the Omniverse exists, why don't you think such a God would always have the upper hand? Since I believe that God rules EVERYTHING in existence, I believe that God always has the upper hand.

“Baha’is believe in an almighty creator who has fashioned the universe and has made man in his own image; they believe in a non-created cause of all existence, in a single God. The word ‘God’ is a symbol for that transcendent reality by which all existence is ruled and maintained.”
(Udo Schafer, the light that shineth in the darkness, p. 19)

 

[nPeace]

I don't like the idea of letting someone else pay for my debts.

You are not appreciative of someone taking you out of a crisis... because they want to, out of the goodness of their heart, and because they love you?

I was raised to not take things from people, and when people offered me a gift - like money, etc., I would say, "It's okay." Or, "You may need it."
Until one day someone explained how badly they feel when they are expressing love, and the joy they get from giving, and it dawned on me that I was actually stealing their joy.
I came to realize that I was really stuck in a culture that I was shaped in... not realizing how it was really a form of selfishness, even though I was convincing myself that I was thinking about the other person.

It was enlightening to me. From then, I stopped refusing person's gifts, and so many people showered me with gifts, and I felt their joy.

What about you? Why do you feel that way?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

So you are saying that the Omniverse is everything that exists?

Yes.

Are you saying that everything creates itself?

Yes.

Yes, I believe that God is the God of the Omniverse, as you defined the Omniverse, since God is the God of EVERYTHING in existence. If God is not the God of the Omniverse, He is just a deity I don't need to be bothered with.

If a God of the Omniverse exists, why don't you think such a God would always have the upper hand? Since I believe that God rules EVERYTHING in existence, I believe that God always has the upper hand.

But don't you realize how unbelievably hard it would be to prove and demonstrate that? That kind of God wouldn't be a voice in my head or a message from the sky; He will literally have to transport me to different dimensions and realities to prove that kind of thing. Will this "God of The Omniverse" ever do that? No. Therefore, The Omniverse is God, and there is no "God of The Omniverse".

 

[viole]

Would you mind my asking, why don't you like the Biblical God

If I may, mainly because He kills women, children, the elder, pets, etc. He is a sort of metaphysical Putin. He is into genocide, slavery, and all those things that any civilised country today would consider crimes against humanity. The worst crime possible. In the same league of Hitler, Stalin, and the already mentioned Putin.

Hope I could help.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nakosis]

You are not appreciative of someone taking you out of a crisis... because they want to, out of the goodness of their heart, and because they love you?

I was raised to not take things from people, and when people offered me a gift - like money, etc., I would say, "It's okay." Or, "You may need it."
Until one day someone explained how badly they feel when they are expressing love, and the joy they get from giving, and it dawned on me that I was actually stealing their joy.
I came to realize that I was really stuck in a culture that I was shaped in... not realizing how it was really a form of selfishness, even though I was convincing myself that I was thinking about the other person.

It was enlightening to me. From then, I stopped refusing person's gifts, and so many people showered me with gifts, and I felt their joy.

What about you? Why do you feel that way?

Because it invalidates my own ability to deal with it. They can express their love in other ways that doesn't invalidate me.

 

[nPeace]

If I may, mainly because He kills women, children, the elder, pets, etc. He is a sort of metaphysical Putin. He is into genocide, slavery, and all those things that any civilised country today would consider crimes against humanity. The worst crime possible. In the same league of Hitler, Stalin, and the already mentioned Putin.

Hope I could help.

Ciao

- viole

Thanks. I appreciate that honest answer.
So you don't agree with killing, or just killing women, children, the elderly, pets?

 

[nPeace]

Because it invalidates my own ability to deal with it. They can express their love in other ways that doesn't invalidate me.

...but we don't know if we can deal with our crises. What if that person is a God send in time of need?

I was like that you know. I realized I had a selfish pride. I wanted to be independent and deal with my own problems, by myself, without anyone's help.
I changed... to some degree. Still have a ways to go.

 

[Truthseeker]

I’m asking non Christians this hypothetical. If the Christian God was undoubtedly real, would you become a Christian? Let’s say the Christian God proved Himself to you, He does whatever He has to to make you believe. Maybe the sky was ripped open in front of you and Jesus Christ poked His head out and said “hey”.
I saw someone say that “even if he was real, he wouldn’t meet my moral standards.” Is this true for you? The God of the Bible does some pretty gnarly stuff. And He commanded the Israelites to do some gnarly stuff with His law.
For me, I think I would serve Him. I would suspend my understanding of moral standards I suppose. Allow myself to know that I have a subjective perspective. What about you though? Even if He is real, would you want to be His follower?
I am unsure of my position. Jehovah is mighty but arguably immoral from our human perspective. Jesus Christ is great though, died for us and stuff.

I believe the stories of God and the way He was described in the Old Testament or Tanakh as Jews would describe it are suspect. Humans wrote those stories, not divine people, in my opinion. There are some allegorical stories that are probably inspired by God in there. Hard for me to make heads or tails of some of these these stories, whether they are allegorical stories or just plain wrong, or both. It's confusing. I would rather stick to later Dispensations for any reliable knowledge, but then I need to dialogue with Jews also.

I believe the Gospels conveyed the message of Jesus Christ well, as far as what His words were and I believe in that message. The words He said need some pondering though as to what He meant by His words. I'm not technically a Christian, I'm a Baha'i, but I believe that in the what is eternal is all religions. I believe Jesus Christ is Divine.

 

[HonestJoe]

I’m asking non Christians this hypothetical. If the Christian God was undoubtedly real, would you become a Christian?

Well Christianity is based on faith so if God somehow proved his existence, the various Christian religions would be massively disrupted and probably engaged in all sorts of arguments so it wouldn't be the best time to join their ranks.

Other than that, I wouldn't see any reason to change my behaviour. After all, God doesn't seem to have any major issue with anything I've been doing so far and I don't see why him proving his existence would change that.

 

[Truthseeker]

To me, he seems to be the God of one group of people.

There is but one God for me, but this one God is conveyed in different terms to different times and cultures, according to their outlook. Of course Hindus are a little different, but I think the concept of Brahmin or Vishnu in the case of Krishna came along and is the one God according to different Hindus. "A rose by any other name is just as sweet".