Are you a liar?

[Redemptionsong]

The false gospel of grace, "the covenant with death" (Isaiah 28:15), produced by the false prophet Paul, is antithetical to the gospel of Yeshua, which is the gospel of the kingdom, which is based on justice and righteousness, the rock/"stone" the true church is built on (Isaiah 28:14-18). The "day of the LORD" is a day of judgment (Joel 2:31-3:2), whereas judgment will be met out to the nations/Gentiles. The righteous keep God's law, the wicked keep their own internal law, based on their own distorted feelings, apparently based on greed and lust To "enter into life", one must keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17). The false gospel of grace, a self righteous attitude, leads to death/destruction (Matthew 7:13), and the gospel of the kingdom, whereas Israel will eventually abide by God's statutes, comes about at the "end of the age". (Ezekiel 37:22-28), at the time of the judgment upon the nations/Gentiles (Matthew 13:39-42).

You say that the righteous keep God's law. But to keep all of God's commandments, without sinning once, you have to be God!

Who do you think kept God's law without ever sinning? Can you name one person other than Jesus Christ?

 

[Redemptionsong]

God is a religious idea, and religion is not necessarily spiritual. Love could be considered spiritual, but it's mostly referred to as an emotion any humans can feel, assuming no mental disabilities.


Theists have their own definition of spiritual and faith. To my mind spiritual needs to have a certain function to a person's feeling of well being. The more fervent the believer the less spiritual it tends to be. A head full of religious concepts does not equate to a spiritual path. And faith, well, that can mean a good will approach or a justification to believe in irrational concepts. In any event theists need to be more careful about what and how they believe in the concepts they value.


In other words, believe the influence of other believers around you. Let's note you probably didn't read the Quran or Vedas, did you? Would you tell someone to read the Quran without skepticism, or should they accept what the Quran says just because there are Muslims telling him he should believe it?

See how you trap yourself with faith? See how social influence can make one guy a Christian, another guy a Muslim, and yet another guy a Hindu, and all because they were exposed to different social experiences from different religious traditions. This is why reason (skilled thinking) is crucial to teach the young (and even some adults).


But did you have the tools to adequately question your beliefs? Do you have reasoning skill? Are you able to set aside the subconscious values you have assigned to ideas you adopted from life experiences? Are you even self-aware enough to know where your biases are? Have you studies secular histories of how the Bible and Christianity evolved over time? Have you studied the psychology of religious so you can identity yurt own thinking and behavior and why you behave the way you do? Have two looked into the evolutionary element of why humans evolved to be religious?

There are many reason why religious people believe in their religion, and it is not because the concepts are rational and fact-based.


Sounds like you interpreted things a certain to validate your religious belief. In psychology it's called confirmation bias. You will see things that confirm what you believe, and reject what doesn't.


Rituals are a way to make your efforts seem valuable. After all, if you do something long enough you come to value that ritual and repetition. It's a way to create stability to offset the natural anxiety we humans have. Some of us prefer to avoid this trap of illusion and self-deception. It takes courage to take on life without religious belief, but it is very fulfilling. The freedom is fantastic.

It's not religion or ritual that interests me, it's truth. And truth does not just exist this side of death, it exists eternally.

 

[2ndpillar]

You say that the righteous keep God's law. But to keep all of God's commandments, without sinning once, you have to be God!

Who do you think kept God's law without ever sinning? Can you name one person other than Jesus Christ?

You say that the righteous keep God's law. But to keep all of God's commandments, without sinning once, you have to be God!

Who do you think kept God's law without ever sinning? Can you name one person other than Jesus Christ?

If you are actually born of God, and His seed remains in you, you cannot sin (1 John 3:9). On the other hand, if you are born of the devil, you sin (1 John 3:8). You can sin, which is transgress the Law, and be a son of the devil, or you can be born of God. Apparently, to refrain from sin, you must be born of God.

New American Standard Bible 1 John 3:9
No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

 

[F1fan]

It's not religion or ritual that interests me, it's truth.

But your views are expressly religious. You can't avoid this fact by trying to relabel Christianity as "truth". Truth on the proper context means ideas that conform to fact and reality. Religions are notoriously bad at this, which is probably why you want to disassociate your beliefs from it. You must be aware that your religious beliefs are not factual nor realistic. But neither are they truth because you haven't demonstrated anything you claim is true and factual.

And truth does not just exist this side of death, it exists eternally.

Yet another meaningless claim that does not correspond to anything factual or real. This is pure religious dogma.

 

[Redemptionsong]

If you are actually born of God, and His seed remains in you, you cannot sin (1 John 3:9). On the other hand, if you are born of the devil, you sin (1 John 3:8). You can sin, which is transgress the Law, and be a son of the devil, or you can be born of God. Apparently, to refrain from sin, you must be born of God.

New American Standard Bible 1 John 3:9
No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

Well, now you're caught between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?!

To be born of God, as John mentions, is to be 'born again', which is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not man's righteousness, but the righteousness of God.

So, where is your one example of a man without sin?

 

[Redemptionsong]

But your views are expressly religious. You can't avoid this fact by trying to relabel Christianity as "truth". Truth on the proper context means ideas that conform to fact and reality. Religions are notoriously bad at this, which is probably why you want to disassociate your beliefs from it. You must be aware that your religious beliefs are not factual nor realistic. But neither are they truth because you haven't demonstrated anything you claim is true and factual.


Yet another meaningless claim that does not correspond to anything factual or real. This is pure religious dogma.

I'm not relabelling Christianity as truth, l'm saying, as scripture says, that God and Christ are truth! Big difference!

Your great appetite for 'facts' is delusional. If your atheistic world provided knowledge that led to eternal life that would be great! But it doesn't. When you stand before the Judge he's not going to set you a 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' multiple choice!

What knowledge do you have that will save you from sin and death? That's the question you should be asking.

Paul said, 'Seek your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

Spot on!

 

[2ndpillar]

Well, now you're caught between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?!

To be born of God, as John mentions, is to be 'born again', which is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not man's righteousness, but the righteousness of God.

So, where is your one example of a man without sin?

To be "born again", is to first die to oneself. Once you have died to yourself and are anointed, and live by the Power of the Spirit of God, and reside in the "Word", as in the seed, the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:39-42), which is the good seed, the message of the kingdom, versus the tare seed, the message of the "devil" which is propagated by the false prophet Paul, and is the message of lawlessness . At the time you are "born again", you will be unable to sin (1 John 3:9). If you still sin, well, there you have it, according to 1 John 3:8, you are the son of the devil. King David sinned, repented, and sinned no more. At the "end of the age" when Israel is reunited on the land given to Jacob, they will be ruled by "My servant David" (Ezekiel 37:22-28), whereas at that time, Israel will be the tabernacle of God, forever. As for the Gentiles/nations, the survivors will be sold to the Sabeans as slaves (Joel 3:8), or volunteer to be servants to Jacob (Isaiah 14:1-2). At that time, the nations/Gentiles will confess that their fathers taught them nothing but falsehoods (Jeremiah 16:19). As for Jacob, he will be "chastened justly, and not completely destroyed. (Jeremiah 30:11). It is the nations/Gentiles who "I will destroy completely" (Jeremiah 30:11). "Their skin will rot while they stand on their feet" (Zechariah 14:12). You might want to read the Scriptural part of the bible instead of your "Christian" doctrine based on the spiel of the false prophet Paul, and pay attention to the details. Just saying. Russia is flying nuclear capable jets over the Golan heights, and Iran has supposedly 3 EMP nuclear weapons, while the nuclear capable CCP is falling apart, and might have to instigate a war to hold on to power. I don't know, I am thinking your "righteousness" and "salvation" are figment of your imagination, and that like everyone, you will die along with everyone else, despite what the dead Paul might have told you. (Jeremiah 31:30).

 

[2ndpillar]

Paul said, 'Seek your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

Spot on!

In spite of what Paul preached, he is dead and buried. Salvation, per Paul's reference to Joel 2:31-32, is with respect to the "day of the LORD" which is in the future. No one has "survived"/"escaped" from that day. As for what happens at the "day of the LORD", Paul will remain in his grave, and 1000 years later, will be found in the "furnace of fire" (Revelation 20:10). His followers will no doubt be joining him in the furnace of fire (Revelation 20:15), if only for an instant. It will be a quick death for Pau's followers, but apparently, not so much for Paul, the false prophet. The demons, like Paul, believe, but tremble with fear (James 2:19). They all have reason to tremble. The "salvation" you think you hold in your hand, is an illusion. According to Yeshua, the only one's saved, are those who "endure" to the end (Matthew 24). The "end" occurs at the "day of the LORD", the "great tribulation", which apparently comes nearer every day.

 

[F1fan]

I'm not relabelling Christianity as truth, l'm saying, as scripture says, that God and Christ are truth! Big difference!

Who died and made you God that you can just make a statement as if your are infallible? You're repeating religious belief, not asserting absolute truth.

Do you have no awareness that what you adopted about these religious beliefs might not be true, and you are mistaken to assume they are?

It's not as superficially true to claim "God and Christ are truth". You still have certain interpretations of the Bible that is under a lot of disagreement and debate, as we observe you debating with your fellow Christians. Sure, you think your interpretation is correct. They think their interpretations are correct. None of you are certain. The Bible is not a consistent book of stories and it is open to massive versions of interpretation.

Your great appetite for 'facts' is delusional.

Sounds like someone doesn't like what facts can do in helping humans actually understand what is true versus untrue. Facts make science work. Facts make the courts and justice work. Facts is what functioning humans use to navigate life with predictability. Facts do not help religious belief.

If your atheistic world provided knowledge that led to eternal life that would be great! But it doesn't.

Guess what, eternal life isn't a fact. Your religious framework doesn't provide knowledge either. You seem to confuse implausible concepts like an afterlife with fact. My approach allows me the freedom to discern this difference.

When you stand before the Judge he's not going to set you a 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' multiple choice!

Weak threat. I don't assume this is real, so this threat doesn't work. Atheists have the freedom to not be afraid of hell, or any other consequence of not believing.

Why did you decide to buy into these ideas? Who told you they are true, and why trust them?

What knowledge do you have that will save you from sin and death? That's the question you should be asking.

There is no evidence that sin is a real thing. This is yet another one of the threats designed in Christianity to make believers comply through fear of consequences. It is mind control, and the odd thing is that you believers have to be complicit in this hoax.

Paul said, 'Seek your own salvation with fear and trembling'.

Spot on!

Who cares? Even one of your fellow Christians says Paul is a false prophet, so even you believers disagree about what it all means. Why should I follow your interpretation? Are you a God? Or just an ordinary, flawed person afraid to look beyond what you have been told is true? You can't seek your own salvation past the prison of Christian belief?

 

[Redemptionsong]

To be "born again", is to first die to oneself. Once you have died to yourself and are anointed, and live by the Power of the Spirit of God, and reside in the "Word", as in the seed, the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:39-42), which is the good seed, the message of the kingdom, versus the tare seed, the message of the "devil" which is propagated by the false prophet Paul, and is the message of lawlessness . At the time you are "born again", you will be unable to sin (1 John 3:9). If you still sin, well, there you have it, according to 1 John 3:8, you are the son of the devil. King David sinned, repented, and sinned no more. At the "end of the age" when Israel is reunited on the land given to Jacob, they will be ruled by "My servant David" (Ezekiel 37:22-28), whereas at that time, Israel will be the tabernacle of God, forever. As for the Gentiles/nations, the survivors will be sold to the Sabeans as slaves (Joel 3:8), or volunteer to be servants to Jacob (Isaiah 14:1-2). At that time, the nations/Gentiles will confess that their fathers taught them nothing but falsehoods (Jeremiah 16:19). As for Jacob, he will be "chastened justly, and not completely destroyed. (Jeremiah 30:11). It is the nations/Gentiles who "I will destroy completely" (Jeremiah 30:11). "Their skin will rot while they stand on their feet" (Zechariah 14:12). You might want to read the Scriptural part of the bible instead of your "Christian" doctrine based on the spiel of the false prophet Paul, and pay attention to the details. Just saying. Russia is flying nuclear capable jets over the Golan heights, and Iran has supposedly 3 EMP nuclear weapons, while the nuclear capable CCP is falling apart, and might have to instigate a war to hold on to power. I don't know, I am thinking your "righteousness" and "salvation" are figment of your imagination, and that like everyone, you will die along with everyone else, despite what the dead Paul might have told you. (Jeremiah 31:30).

What's missing from this diatribe is any acknowledgement of the Church as the body of Christ!

So, can l assume that lsaiah is another prophet of God that you've chosen to disregard?

Isaiah 42:6. 'l the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people; for a light of the Gentiles;'

Isaiah 49:6.'And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of lsrael: l will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth'.

Isaiah 60:3. 'And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising'.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Who died and made you God that you can just make a statement as if your are infallible? You're repeating religious belief, not asserting absolute truth.

Do you have no awareness that what you adopted about these religious beliefs might not be true, and you are mistaken to assume they are?

It's not as superficially true to claim "God and Christ are truth". You still have certain interpretations of the Bible that is under a lot of disagreement and debate, as we observe you debating with your fellow Christians. Sure, you think your interpretation is correct. They think their interpretations are correct. None of you are certain. The Bible is not a consistent book of stories and it is open to massive versions of interpretation.


Sounds like someone doesn't like what facts can do in helping humans actually understand what is true versus untrue. Facts make science work. Facts make the courts and justice work. Facts is what functioning humans use to navigate life with predictability. Facts do not help religious belief.


Guess what, eternal life isn't a fact. Your religious framework doesn't provide knowledge either. You seem to confuse implausible concepts like an afterlife with fact. My approach allows me the freedom to discern this difference.


Weak threat. I don't assume this is real, so this threat doesn't work. Atheists have the freedom to not be afraid of hell, or any other consequence of not believing.

Why did you decide to buy into these ideas? Who told you they are true, and why trust them?


There is no evidence that sin is a real thing. This is yet another one of the threats designed in Christianity to make believers comply through fear of consequences. It is mind control, and the odd thing is that you believers have to be complicit in this hoax.


Who cares? Even one of your fellow Christians says Paul is a false prophet, so even you believers disagree about what it all means. Why should I follow your interpretation? Are you a God? Or just an ordinary, flawed person afraid to look beyond what you have been told is true? You can't seek your own salvation past the prison of Christian belief?

Jesus told his disciples to share the Gospel. Jesus didn't say that everyone would believe! You have an opportunity to read the Bible, to check the evidence, and to make up your mind.

I have the satisfaction of knowing that Jesus is alive. This provides me with the assurance that justice will be done eventually, despite all the injustice that l see in this world.

Here are some of Paul's words of wisdom:
'Recompense no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; l will repay, saith the Lord'.

Do you have an alternative to vengeance, given that you have no God?

 

[F1fan]

Jesus told his disciples to share the Gospel. Jesus didn't say that everyone would believe! You have an opportunity to read the Bible, to check the evidence, and to make up your mind.

Given the supernatural basis behind the story of Jesus, and the lack of historical evidence that any jesus existed even as just a person, we can't assume any of these stories are true at face value.

Let's not ignore that embellishment was common in writing at this time. They did not have much in the way of factual history and reporting. Few people could read, so there was a limited purpose for any text that was produced.

I have the satisfaction of knowing that Jesus is alive.

If you have knowledge then there must be facts that back up what you are saying here, so show us the facts that demonstrate a Jesus, both the man and the supernatural agent, exists. If you can't, then you don't have knowledge any more than I know Mickey Mouse is alive.

Maybe I'm wrong. But in decades of discussing religion with Christians none have ever provided facts that demonstrate the basis of their beliefs and ritual are true. Christians can't even demonstrate that any sort of supernatural phenomenon omen exists.

This provides me with the assurance that justice will be done eventually, despite all the injustice that l see in this world.

This is what your particular religion told you to believe, and you've adopted it. None of this is factual.

I understand Christians are taught to refer to their beliefs as if they are true and fact-based, this is how the believer gets more indoctrinated and more committed, and doubts less. But it doesn't work in open debate.

What's interesting there is actually a psychological tactic that salesmen use to ramp themselves up to go sell, and that is to repeat to themselves that their products are good, they are going to make the sale, that they won't take no for an answer, and they are confident. This sort of self-reinforcement works. It even works in sports psychology where the athlete visualizes the event and makes the mind become attached to a certain outcome, and this offsets doubt and even the pain of effort. So the human mind is very effective in creating scenarios and believe in outcomes through a sort of self-validation.

Here are some of Paul's words of wisdom:
'Recompense no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; l will repay, saith the Lord'.

Do you have an alternative to vengeance, given that you have no God?

Why would I want to be this petty?

 

[2ndpillar]

What's missing from this diatribe is any acknowledgement of the Church as the body of Christ!

So, can l assume that lsaiah is another prophet of God that you've chosen to disregard?

Isaiah 42:6. 'l the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people; for a light of the Gentiles;'

Isaiah 49:6.'And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of lsrael: l will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth'.

Isaiah 60:3. 'And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising'.

The daughter churches of Babylon would be best compared to the "synagogue of Satan" (Revelation 2:9), as their leader, the false prophet Paul, takes them down the road to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15). As for Isaiah 49 and Joel 3 referring to the restoration of Jerusalem and Judah/Jews, that was partially done recently in 1948, and the valley of judgment (Joel 3:2), the judgment upon the nations/Gentiles, is in the wings. It is after the restoration of Judah (Joel 3:1) that Israel/Ephraim, will be reunited with Judah. As for Israel, Ephraim, they are still "scattered" among the nations (Ezekiel 36:22-24), and have yet to be "chastened" justly (Jeremiah 30:11), and returned to the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:22-28) under the leadership of "My servant David".. At that time the Gentiles, which have survived the "great Tribulation" will confess their fathers have provided them nothing but "falsehoods" (Jeremiah 16:19), and will look to Israel for their light (Isaiah 60:3), which is to say, they have are in the darkness at this time. As for Isaiah 42:4-6, at this time, he has not "established justice in the earth", nor do they "wait expectantly for His law".

As for Pau's body of Christ" euphemism, that is a rabbit hole. There is the Temple/Sanctuary of the Spirit of God, which will eventually be the reconstituted "Israel" (Ezekiel 37:22-28), which now would include the "little children" with the "anointing" (1 John 2:28). Yeshua refers to the "temple", which is God's sanctuary, coming back after 2 days (2000 years), on the 3rd day, with respect to Judah and Ephraim (Hosea 5:11-6:2), after the LORD is done judging them. At that time, they will be a light to any surviving Gentiles. (Isaiah 42:6). At this time, the Gentiles are pretty much a light of the leaven of the Pharisee, a light for hypocrisy.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Why would I want to be this petty?

As a humanist, you have one life, here and now. Do you not admit that this makes a difference to your thinking and morality?

I accept the Bible as God's Word. I am not under duress or pressure to make such a claim. The internal integrity of scripture, matched by my personal experience, leads me to this conclusion.

Scripture teaches, and reason supports the idea, that God is eternal. If God gives life, then life belongs to God, and if God wishes to give life to the dead, then the dead will live again.

Believing in eternal life, and in Christ as the way to eternal life, l am left with a very different attitude to life in this world. As Jesus said, 'where your treasure is, there will be your heart also.'

Your heart is clearly focused on 'facts' and the things of this world. Well, we know where your treasure lies!

Jesus said, 'lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:'

IMO, Jesus divides people into two camps. You are either for him, and the truth, or you are against him, and the truth. Why? Because Jesus speaks as God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The daughter churches of Babylon would be best compared to the "synagogue of Satan" (Revelation 2:9), as their leader, the false prophet Paul, takes them down the road to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15). As for Isaiah 49 and Joel 3 referring to the restoration of Jerusalem and Judah/Jews, that was partially done recently in 1948, and the valley of judgment (Joel 3:2), the judgment upon the nations/Gentiles, is in the wings. It is after the restoration of Judah (Joel 3:1) that Israel/Ephraim, will be reunited with Judah. As for Israel, Ephraim, they are still "scattered" among the nations (Ezekiel 36:22-24), and have yet to be "chastened" justly (Jeremiah 30:11), and returned to the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:22-28) under the leadership of "My servant David".. At that time the Gentiles, which have survived the "great Tribulation" will confess their fathers have provided them nothing but "falsehoods" (Jeremiah 16:19), and will look to Israel for their light (Isaiah 60:3), which is to say, they have are in the darkness at this time. As for Isaiah 42:4-6, at this time, he has not "established justice in the earth", nor do they "wait expectantly for His law".

As for Pau's body of Christ" euphemism, that is a rabbit hole. There is the Temple/Sanctuary of the Spirit of God, which will eventually be the reconstituted "Israel" (Ezekiel 37:22-28), which now would include the "little children" with the "anointing" (1 John 2:28). Yeshua refers to the "temple", which is God's sanctuary, coming back after 2 days (2000 years), on the 3rd day, with respect to Judah and Ephraim (Hosea 5:11-6:2), after the LORD is done judging them. At that time, they will be a light to any surviving Gentiles. (Isaiah 42:6). At this time, the Gentiles are pretty much a light of the leaven of the Pharisee, a light for hypocrisy.

In the intervening two thousand years, [Hosea 6:1,2] has there not been a true and functioning Church? Do you deny that the Gospel had to reach the four corners of the earth?

So far you have argued that all men must achieve righteousness under the law. But you have failed to name me one man who never sinned!

 

[Elihoenai]

No, that is an example of a defensive verse. Something that a book that was the "Word of God" would not need. Never use defensive verses in a debate to defend the Bible. It only confirms that one's beliefs are wrong.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I use any and every verse in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I'm in total agreement with everything in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelations. Every Scriptural post is Attacking and Defending in total devotion to the Original Christian Doctrine.

 

[2ndpillar]

In the intervening two thousand years, [Hosea 6:1,2] has there not been a true and functioning Church? Do you deny that the Gospel had to reach the four corners of the earth?

So far you have argued that all men must achieve righteousness under the law. But you have failed to name me one man who never sinned!

To escape the coming wrath of God to come (Matthew 3:7), one must confess and repent of their sins. Not that they haven't sinned. To "repent" is to turn away from. Per Hosea 5 & 6, Judah and Ephraim will acknowledge their guilt, and then they will be healed after two days (2000 years). If you claim you remain a sinner, then that would preclude you from being a sanctuary of the Spirit of of God. As for the gospel of the kingdom, it has not been preached. The false gospel of the false prophet Paul is the false gospel being preached. The "end" comes when the gospel of the kingdom is preached throughout the world (Mt 24). In an age of the internet, that gospel can be preached in a nanosecond throughout the world. What is functioning is the Gentile church, "the flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), shepherded by two shepherds, Peter, the "worthless shepherd" (Zech 11:17), and Paul, called "Favor" (Zechariah 11:10), because of his false gospel of grace. The Gentile church is represented by the "adulteress", who was bought for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver per Hosea 3, for "many days", after which Israel will return, to the "LORD their God", and "David their king".

 

[Elihoenai]

I agree that the 'new man' is the saint. To say, however, that one must practice the laws and commands of Moses is inaccurate. The laws and commandments of Moses include commandments to make animal sacrifices in the temple in Jerusalem! This is not a part of NT teaching.

It's clear from the teaching of the apostles that to 'worship in Spirit and truth' gives freedom from the ritualistic and legalistic aspects of religion.

Here is Paul speaking: Romans 13:8-10.
'Owe no man anything, but love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.'

Let's not also forget that the 'new man' in Christ is a priest. Here are the words of 1 Peter 2:5. 'Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.'

1 Corinthians 15:49

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


I'm in total agreement with everything in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. It appears that you have the false belief that you can become Spiritual without practicing the Earthly Levitical Priesthood. Those that bear the image of the Earthly must practice the Earthly Priesthood. You must follow the path instructed and exampled by Yeshua/Jesus with Total Devotion, otherwise you are not a True Christian.

@Redemptionsong It appears that you are a member of the Earthly Christian Church. What is your Christian Denominational or Non-Denominational Church?

 

[2ndpillar]

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I use any and every verse in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I'm in total agreement with everything in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelations. Every Scriptural post is Attacking and Defending in total devotion to the Original Christian Doctrine.

The pronouncements of Paul, were not original to the teachings of the apostles. With respect to 2 Timothy 3, Paul was referring to the "sacred writings" he had read from childhood, which would preclude his writings. The present generally used "Christian" NT canon stems from the 4th century, and under the authority of the "beast", the Roman empire.

 

[Subduction Zone]

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I use any and every verse in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I'm in total agreement with everything in the Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelations. Every Scriptural post is Attacking and Defending in total devotion to the Original Christian Doctrine.

And like too many Christians you do not seem to understand that verse. What do you think that means? Also we know that parts of the Bible are not literally true. No Adam and Eve and Garden of Eden. No Noah's Ark. No Exodus. If you do not understand this you cannot understand the Bible.