Put God on trial!

[2ndpillar]

Are you talking about abortion, the hot topic lately yet again in the U.S. news (i heard yet another piece on it this morning on NPR)?

Personally, I think almost none of us would think an embryo should be treated like a full fledged human person, but most all of us would think an 8 months late term baby still in the womb on the other hand is pretty much getting so close we feel it's about there (to be just like a already born baby).

Right?

So, personally, I think was has been the consensus in the U.S. is about right: that early term abortions are not killing a person, but that late term abortions are much more serious and have to be carefully regulated just like we'd look to rescue an abandoned infant.

What's your view?

My view is that your view is crafted by a twisted corrupt Progressive political party and their media lap dogs. Where is the point of an embryo not being a living entity? Is it at one day, one week, one month, 6 months, or within an hour of birth? At what point does an embryo stop having the potential of dethroning a corrupt politician? Is someone in a coma, no longer a human being? Why do doctors put people in comas to operate on them, if once they are in a coma, a non-thinking state, they are no longer a human being? Why not just kill them when they are no longer considered human?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Could you imagine being an ancient Israelite, and putting babies, pregnant women, and children to the sword because God ordered it!?

Could you imagine going up to terrified , innocent, screaming children, and thrusting your sword/spear into them?

I wouldn't even feel like a man anymore I would feel so low!

The God of the Bible is simply very sick!

Even Genghis Khan adopted orphans in the enemy cities he conquered and welcomed POWS into his military to be officers even. It wasn't total scorched earth policies!

I'm so glad I haven't caused a tiny fraction of .01% of the pain and suffering God is responsible!

God sometimes didn't command total exterminations. He occasionally sanctioned taking traumatized virgins (whose family just got violently killed), as sex slaves, condemning them to a lifetime of humiliation and agony!

I'm sorry, running your sword through pregnant women, babies, and children, even in obedience to God, and taking traumatized virgins as sex slaves, is disgusting and disturbing crimes against humanity NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT!!!

I think it's extremely sad and wrong that particular God cannot be overthrown, replaced by someone compassionate/generous, and put him on trial for his war crimes, and extreme stinginess in managing graces and exercising omnipotence!

I'm trying to respect this God, as I believe it adds to the powers of my prayers, (and pleases some of the violently raped and murdered girls and suicides I bless and pray for), but when you are dealing with the ugliest war criminal, and greatest cause of misery, disasters, death, destruction, sorrow, and agony in our world, what the hell is there that deserves respect??

Put the greatest criminal there ever was on trial!!!

I answered yes in your poll, and I've shared why I think it's true in some of my prior posts (for example). As far as I'm concerned, God is explicitly guilty of immeasurable crimes against humanity and global genocide. I'm sad to say that it took me years to finally come to terms with this undeniable fact because as a devout Christian, I didn't want to admit that the "loving and merciful" God I believed in was actually a cold-blooded sadistic genocidal killer. Honestly, it was difficult for me to finally admit the truth because I was deeply entrenched in Christianity and I couldn't see the forest for the trees. As I shared in another thread, leaving Christianity and forsaking my faith was the best decision that I've ever made for myself. I don't regret it, but I wish I had forsaken my faith years ago instead of holding onto the false hope I had in God. I could have saved myself several years of heartache and depression.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What a follower of the false prophet Paul, a "Christian", believes, and what is true, are two different things. While "everlasting life" may be true, the followers of the "false prophets" are on the road to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-23).

Paul isn't a false prophet. Where do people get this nonsense?

 

[Wildswanderer]

There is no factual or rational basis to believe in this literal idea. Plus it is contrary to what we know about conscious awareness. That Christians do believe it literally only raises questions as to why the religion claims it, and why otherwise intelligent people accept it is true.

Lol, there's no factual basis to believe anything. We all choose what we believe.

 

[2ndpillar]

Paul isn't a false prophet. Where do people get this nonsense?

Lol, there's no factual basis to believe anything. We all choose what we believe.

And you believe that the self-described apostle, Paul, is not lying despite what Yeshua said in 5:31 and Matthew 7:13-23, whereas Paul fits the description of the wolve in sheep's clothing who "commits lawlessness" and casts out demons and works miracles in "your name". I don't know, it appears you have built your house on a foundation of sand (Matthew 7:27). If Paul was a prophet, why did he have to call on his Lord Caesar to save himself from the Jews in Jerusalem? His Lord Caesar was a head of the beast, whose authority came from the dragon (Revelation 13:4)

New American Standard Bible John 5:31
“If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true.

 

[halbhh]

My view is that your view is crafted by a twisted corrupt Progressive political party and their media lap dogs. Where is the point of an embryo not being a living entity? Is it at one day, one week, one month, 6 months, or within an hour of birth? At what point does an embryo stop having the potential of dethroning a corrupt politician? Is someone in a coma, no longer a human being? Why do doctors put people in comas to operate on them, if once they are in a coma, a non-thinking state, they are no longer a human being? Why not just kill them when they are no longer considered human?

Ok.

I know that about 1/2 of embryos (from conception to 9 weeks is an embryo) are naturally aborted by the body -- for various reasons such as being unviable.

Because I believe in God, and believe God is good, I do not think God would put a soul/spirt (which He places into a body: Ecclesiastes 12:7) into an embryo that He can see is going to naturally die very soon....

God can see which fetuses will survive, and be able to be a good home for a soul.

Additionally, I also think the soul is connected to consciousness and the potential of consciousness (on a deep (subconscious) level that is always present, such as during sleep).

Since the embryo also does not yet have a brain (too early), there is not a connection place yet for the soul, as I understand.

So, basically I trust in God, see. I know that He will not only see which fetuses are viable before He puts a soul in one, but also that He will do so much more....

 

[Wildswanderer]

And you believe that the self-described apostle, Paul, is not lying despite what Yeshua said in 5:31

Paul help to spread the gospel to the Nations...that was good fruit.

 

[2ndpillar]

Paul help to spread the gospel to the Nations...that was good fruit.

Paul did what he was supposed to do per Zechariah 11:7-10), which was to help Peter (Zechariah 11:14-17) the "worthless shepherd", and Judas (Zechariah 11:12-13 & Matthew 27:9-10) to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter", the Christian church, the church of Peter and Paul. According to Matthew 7:15, the false prophets would be the trees, and their followers would be the fruit. If the tree produced bad/rotten fruit, it was because of a bad/rotten tree. The tree of Paul produced the Inquisition, and the Catholics and Protestants killing each other, with the leadership in Rome producing a bumper crop of pedophiles and homosexuals. The good part was the powerless fled to America and produced a constitution with freedom of religion separated from the government. As for the false gospel of grace, the tare seed of the devil, voiced from the false prophet Paul, that was protected per Matthew 13:29, to protect the good seed, the message of the son of man. At the "end of the age" those who abide in that message of lawlessness, will be the "first" to be gathered and thrown into the fire (Matthew 13:30).

 

[halbhh]

Paul did what he was supposed to do per Zechariah 11:7-10), which was to help Peter (Zechariah 11:14-17) the "worthless shepherd", and Judas (Zechariah 11:12-13 & Matthew 27:9-10) to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter", the Christian church, the church of Peter and Paul. According to Matthew 7:15, the false prophets would be the trees, and their followers would be the fruit. If the tree produced bad/rotten fruit, it was because of a bad/rotten tree. The tree of Paul produced the Inquisition, and the Catholics and Protestants killing each other, with the leadership in Rome producing a bumper crop of pedophiles and homosexuals. The good part was the powerless fled to America and produced a constitution with freedom of religion separated from the government. As for the false gospel of grace, the tare seed of the devil, voiced from the false prophet Paul, that was protected per Matthew 13:29, to protect the good seed, the message of the son of man. At the "end of the age" those who abide in that message of lawlessness, will be the "first" to be gathered and thrown into the fire (Matthew 13:30).

People would better learn about their mistakes about Grace vs works (as so often debated) I think not from arguments, but instead by simply seeing the wording of scripture more fully. Such as --

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2 NIV

And the scripture itself will help in a way we never could by debating.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Paul did what he was supposed to do per Zechariah 11:7-10), which was to help Peter (Zechariah 11:14-17) the "worthless shepherd", and Judas (Zechariah 11:12-13 & Matthew 27:9-10) to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter", the Christian church, the church of Peter and Paul. According to Matthew 7:15, the false prophets would be the trees, and their followers would be the fruit. If the tree produced bad/rotten fruit, it was because of a bad/rotten tree. The tree of Paul produced the Inquisition, and the Catholics and Protestants killing each other, with the leadership in Rome producing a bumper crop of pedophiles and homosexuals. The good part was the powerless fled to America and produced a constitution with freedom of religion separated from the government. As for the false gospel of grace, the tare seed of the devil, voiced from the false prophet Paul, that was protected per Matthew 13:29, to protect the good seed, the message of the son of man. At the "end of the age" those who abide in that message of lawlessness, will be the "first" to be gathered and thrown into the fire (Matthew 13:30).

That has to be one of the most bizarre and ridiculous biblical interpretations ever.

 

[Bird123]

Could you imagine being an ancient Israelite, and putting babies, pregnant women, and children to the sword because God ordered it!?

Could you imagine going up to terrified , innocent, screaming children, and thrusting your sword/spear into them?

I wouldn't even feel like a man anymore I would feel so low!

The God of the Bible is simply very sick!

Even Genghis Khan adopted orphans in the enemy cities he conquered and welcomed POWS into his military to be officers even. It wasn't total scorched earth policies!

I'm so glad I haven't caused a tiny fraction of .01% of the pain and suffering God is responsible!

God sometimes didn't command total exterminations. He occasionally sanctioned taking traumatized virgins (whose family just got violently killed), as sex slaves, condemning them to a lifetime of humiliation and agony!

I'm sorry, running your sword through pregnant women, babies, and children, even in obedience to God, and taking traumatized virgins as sex slaves, is disgusting and disturbing crimes against humanity NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT!!!

I think it's extremely sad and wrong that particular God cannot be overthrown, replaced by someone compassionate/generous, and put him on trial for his war crimes, and extreme stinginess in managing graces and exercising omnipotence!

I'm trying to respect this God, as I believe it adds to the powers of my prayers, (and pleases some of the violently raped and murdered girls and suicides I bless and pray for), but when you are dealing with the ugliest war criminal, and greatest cause of misery, disasters, death, destruction, sorrow, and agony in our world, what the hell is there that deserves respect??

Put the greatest criminal there ever was on trial!!!

Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds dear. Perhaps, one should discard Blame in search for Understanding instead.

I have found no holy book and no religion that really understands God at all. If you Blame and Condemn other's image of God, would not that just be another form of Hate?

Instead of valuing and spreading so many petty things, would not a better course be to Discover what the Real Truth about God is then help to correct the mistaken image and beliefs? No one gets hurt that way.

A Being capable of creating the universe and all this has to be very very smart. Perhaps, there are things you are missing. Widen that narrow view. God hides nothing. It stares us all in the face.

If your goal is to have it made with no challenges or troubles, the world might look like a mess to you. If you did have such a dream world, how would you really be? Accomplished? Intelligent? Wise? Strong? Capable? Able to stand on your own two feet? I think not!! Would a world like you desire really be the best for anyone having to depend on God to create it since you would never understand how to create it for yourself or others?

WE all have the power to Choose what we deem important. We can choose to see Doom and Gloom and everything bad Or we can choose to see the entire picture. We can value the goodness above all else then nurture and spread that among the people of the world regardless of what happens.

You see, so much rests in our own little hands. Choose and learn what the best choices really are?

Much will be learned through the bad choices. No one gets good without them. On the other hand, do we really have to value them above the good choices? Aren't bad choices really an excuse people use to justify valuing and spreading all the petty things mankind holds so dear? Will those petty things really prove to be the Best choice??

Since a Being capable of creating us and the Universe is so very intelligent, one must reach and stretch to Understand. Merely Feeling toward Understanding could never supply the Real Answers.

Everything about this world along with the people factor adds up perfectly. It might look like a mess to so many, however so much information lives beyond the mere surface and a desire to have it made.

AS I look upon this world I see a MASTERPIECE!! The dynamics of God's system along with all the variables with so many people in a multilevel classroom are simply Amazing.

Yes, Intelligence exists far beyond that of mankind. We are but mere ants.

Question God? Make Judgment calls on God's actions?? You bet!!! To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. QUESTION EVERYTHING!! On the other hand, instead of hating, condemning or blaming anyone or others, I say work at understanding how it really does add up. Like I said. It stares us all in the face!! God hides nothing!!

It has always been in your hands. It has always been within your reach!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[2ndpillar]

That has to be one of the most bizarre and ridiculous biblical interpretations ever.

As stated by Yeshua, in his preamble to his description of the kingdom in Matthew 13:11-13, he spoke in parables so that those without eyes to see could not see. We are now at the "end of the age" whereas the angels will gather out the stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness (Matthew 13:40-41) and gather the tares to be burned. You can follow the pied pipers to destruction, or you could turn around, and let the lemmings jump off their cliffs by themselves.

 

[2ndpillar]

People would better learn about their mistakes about Grace vs works (as so often debated) I think not from arguments, but instead by simply seeing the wording of scripture more fully. Such as --

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2 NIV

And the scripture itself will help in a way we never could by debating.

And what is "Scripture"? You quote Ephesians, yet Revelation 2 praises the Ephesians for rejecting the false "apostle" in their midst. And who would that be but Paul himself. What does Paul describe as "Scripture" in 2 Timothy 3:15, but that the sacred writings he read from childhood, which would preclude anything written in Ephesians 2. I think maybe you are under the spell of the pied pipers (false prophets) who lead the "many" to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13).

 

[Wildswanderer]

As stated by Yeshua, in his preamble to his description of the kingdom in Matthew 13:11-13, he spoke in parables so that those without eyes to see could not see. We are now at the "end of the age" whereas the angels will gather out the stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness (Matthew 13:40-41) and gather the tares to be burned. You can follow the pied pipers to destruction, or you could turn around, and let the lemmings jump off their cliffs by themselves.

How do you know we are at the end of anything? This is nothing new, just different people involved. At any rate, this has nothing to do with Paul being wrong, which he wasn't

 

[Spiderman]

Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds dear. Perhaps, one should discard Blame in search for Understanding instead.

I have found no holy book and no religion that really understands God at all. If you Blame and Condemn other's image of God, would not that just be another form of Hate?

Instead of valuing and spreading so many petty things, would not a better course be to Discover what the Real Truth about God is then help to correct the mistaken image and beliefs? No one gets hurt that way.

A Being capable of creating the universe and all this has to be very very smart. Perhaps, there are things you are missing. Widen that narrow view. God hides nothing. It stares us all in the face.

If your goal is to have it made with no challenges or troubles, the world might look like a mess to you. If you did have such a dream world, how would you really be? Accomplished? Intelligent? Wise? Strong? Capable? Able to stand on your own two feet? I think not!! Would a world like you desire really be the best for anyone having to depend on God to create it since you would never understand how to create it for yourself or others?

WE all have the power to Choose what we deem important. We can choose to see Doom and Gloom and everything bad Or we can choose to see the entire picture. We can value the goodness above all else then nurture and spread that among the people of the world regardless of what happens.

You see, so much rests in our own little hands. Choose and learn what the best choices really are?

Much will be learned through the bad choices. No one gets good without them. On the other hand, do we really have to value them above the good choices? Aren't bad choices really an excuse people use to justify valuing and spreading all the petty things mankind holds so dear? Will those petty things really prove to be the Best choice??

Since a Being capable of creating us and the Universe is so very intelligent, one must reach and stretch to Understand. Merely Feeling toward Understanding could never supply the Real Answers.

Everything about this world along with the people factor adds up perfectly. It might look like a mess to so many, however so much information lives beyond the mere surface and a desire to have it made.

AS I look upon this world I see a MASTERPIECE!! The dynamics of God's system along with all the variables with so many people in a multilevel classroom are simply Amazing.

Yes, Intelligence exists far beyond that of mankind. We are but mere ants.

Question God? Make Judgment calls on God's actions?? You bet!!! To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. QUESTION EVERYTHING!! On the other hand, instead of hating, condemning or blaming anyone or others, I say work at understanding how it really does add up. Like I said. It stares us all in the face!! God hides nothing!!

It has always been in your hands. It has always been within your reach!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I gave your post a like , but I don't agree with a lot of it.

Of course God is to blame. I have made many mistakes that caused all kinds of problems, believing God wanted me to do something.

I believe God wanted people to crucify Christ, and he wants people to suffer and die.

The only way my confusion will end, so I can diligently and consistently serve God, is if God gives me understanding.

I get really weird messages when I study the Bible, and get convictions the Holy Spirit wills I do some strange things to entertain and amuse God.

God needs to end my confusion, and he refuses to do so. This absolutely leads to me doing bad things.

So yes, God is to blame. I'm trying very hard to be good, but I live in the twin cities because of bad behavior, was transported here in the back of a squad car.

Yet I have had many signs from God that I live where I am supposed to be.

It means that God wanted me to be transported in that squad car. So apparently he willed I do the bad thing that caused it. It seems clear to me.

 

[2ndpillar]

How do you know we are at the end of anything? This is nothing new, just different people involved. At any rate, this has nothing to do with Paul being wrong, which he wasn't

Joel 3:1-2 has Judah and Jerusalem being "revived" just prior to the judgment of the nations, which is the crushing of the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35 & 44, which precedes the setting up of the kingdom. Judah, the Jews, were made a nation centered in Jerusalem in 1948. Paul said "we shall not all sleep"/die, which was a prophecy which did not hold. One false prophecy, and the false prophet is finished. Paul and all his listeners are dead, asleep in their graves, or cradled in their ashes. You can hold onto your reed, but don't be surprised if you are cut.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Joel 3:1-2 has Judah and Jerusalem being "revived" just prior to the judgment of the nations, which is the crushing of the kingdoms of Daniel 2:35 & 44, which precedes the setting up of the kingdom. Judah, the Jews, were made a nation centered in Jerusalem in 1948. Paul said "we shall not all sleep"/die, which was a prophecy which did not hold. One false prophecy, and the false prophet is finished. Paul and all his listeners are dead, asleep in their graves, or cradled in their ashes. You can hold onto your reed, but don't be surprised if you are cut.

The "we" refers to believers... some believers will not die before the second coming.

You don't know when that will be. It could be a million years away.

 

[Bird123]

I gave your post a like , but I don't agree with a lot of it.

Of course God is to blame. I have made many mistakes that caused all kinds of problems, believing God wanted me to do something.

I believe God wanted people to crucify Christ, and he wants people to suffer and die.

The only way my confusion will end, so I can diligently and consistently serve God, is if God gives me understanding.

I get really weird messages when I study the Bible, and get convictions the Holy Spirit wills I do some strange things to entertain and amuse God.

God needs to end my confusion, and he refuses to do so. This absolutely leads to me doing bad things.

So yes, God is to blame. I'm trying very hard to be good, but I live in the twin cities because of bad behavior, was transported here in the back of a squad car.

Yet I have had many signs from God that I live where I am supposed to be.

It means that God wanted me to be transported in that squad car. So apparently he willed I do the bad thing that caused it. It seems clear to me.

Why do you Blame? Why to you want God to do it all for you? Why do you think the bible is about God? Why do you even read the bible if you do strange things from the reading of it?

You might think God wants you to do things, however you are the one who chooses what to do. God grants everyone total freedom of choice. Freedom to choose is a Big part of God's system.

Perhaps, you should wipe your slate clean. Start choosing for yourself. Learn from your choices. If you make a bad choice, Great. You must Learn what the best choices really are.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's your choices that count. You define yourself through your choices. Through choices you show God and the world what you know and what you need to learn.

God never wills people to do anything. Stop running. Stop Blaming. Work toward learning, growing and the resolution of problems. You will be headed in the best direction.

Bad choices stem from the lack of knowledge and understanding. Making choices returns consequences. Everyone learns from the causal nature of things. Example: What action did you choose to take that ended you in the back of a squad car? Look back. Was that really the best choice? What could you have chosen that would bring better results?

Many people go through life just reacting to life. It has always been better to Think ,then act, than simply reacting. Yes, take the time to Think. You can choose better, as we all can.

Religions define people as good or evil. It has never ever been about good and evil. We are all the same. We are all children of God. It's about acquiring knowledge and wisdom in order to make the best choices.

We may all be at different levels of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, however we are all really the same. Creating and living a we against they is just another form of hate which so many religions sadly are teaching today. That is not God!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[2ndpillar]

The "we" refers to believers... some believers will not die before the second coming.

You don't know when that will be. It could be a million years away.

Paul and his listeners believed it pertained to them. You can always rewrite the narrative when it fails. And for you to believe Paul, you must disbelieve God in (Jeremiah 31:30). A clear choice, believe God when he says eat the fruit of good and evil, sin, and die, or believe the devil, who says believe me, and you will live forever, and not die. Apparently, you believe you can sin and live. Whose voice are you actually heeding?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Paul and his listeners believed it pertained to them. You can always rewrite the narrative when it fails. And for you to believe Paul, you must disbelieve God in (Jeremiah 31:30). A clear choice, believe God when he says eat the fruit of good and evil, sin, and die, or believe the devil, who says believe me, and you will live forever, and not die. Apparently, you believe you can sin and live. Whose voice are you actually heeding?

Now you don't sin? What does that even have to do with the subject? Anyway you certainly do sin because you are still human and he that says he doesn't is a liar.
I have no idea what you are talking about.