Baha'i and Messengers

[TransmutingSoul]

What I liked about that article was how Rama had to be added in. So, who will be added to the list of "manifestations" in the next village? Here's a little more on how they stopped using the name, "Baha'u'llah".

Accusations were made that Baha'u'llah was an Islamic prophet and that Hindu villagers would eventually be forced to eat the holy mother cow (24*) The situation became serious enough that reference was made to it in a National Spiritual Assembly letter dated December 10, 1963 which stated among other things that several Baha'i teachers were "touring the erupting area at a great personal hazard."(25*)

One of the main problems in this regard, of course, is that the title Baha'u'llah is itself indicative of an Islamic identification. Consequently one of the fundamental linguistic changes apparent in many of the bhajans created during this time was the substitution of the Sanskritic term Bhagavan for the Arabic Allah. Bhagavan is related to the words bhajan and bhakti in that they are all derived from the same Sanskrit root bhaj (to partake of, as in participation in a religious rite). An early Vedic god, Bhaga was probably so named because of a connection to such rites, and by the medieval period Bhagavan had become to mean Supreme Being and was often associated with devotional movements connected with Rama and Krishna. In Malwa villages, therefore, Bhagavan would not only be used to refer to God per se (Allah) but to his avatars as well. This dual usage was reflected in one bhajan where at one point we hear the line: "Bhagavan has said that he will return in every age to restore righteousness" and then later: "We must spread the news of Bhagavan Baha" (26*) Baha'u'llah thus becomes Bhagavan Baha, a title no doubt much more congenial to the Hindu villager's ear and perhaps more befitting of the kalkin avatar:

• 
  "Oh sing the praises of Bhagavan Baha, Oh sing the peace message of Bhagavan Baha, Oh manifest today the shelter of Bhagavan Baha."

All's fair in trying to make converts, I guess.

Did you check the source of all that?

There is always more than one.point of view.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

To claim that Baha'u'llah taught something better than that is dishonest.

I did not see him claiming that anything was better than what Jesus taught.

 

[CG Didymus]

I'll check out the links. I have seen some of the IDEALS that Baha'i want which is the goal. I haven't seen them post any actual, serious, workable methods to make it happen, which is what I am curious to read about.

For example, a plan for world peace would be to get Baha'i followers in significant positions of leadership in world governments. Still, the people may rise up and cause trouble (like trump followers on Jan 6, as an example).

They might not be allowed to take positions in governments.

The Baha’i teachings ask every Baha’i to abstain from participation in partisan politics...​

However, ultimately, sometime in the future, Baha'is believe that the world will need to follow the teachings of the Baha'i Faith in order to get to the "most" great peace. One God. One religion. One happy people all living under Baha'i laws and rule.

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith. Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God. A new civilization based on spiritual values will come into being. He referred to this as the Most Great Peace.​

 

[CG Didymus]

Did you check the source of all that?

There is always more than one.point of view.

Regards Tony

Do you have a problem with it? And do you recommend a different source?

 

[CG Didymus]

Such it is to have been given a free will choice.

Regards Tony

It's not free if the world is going to have to pay the price by going through wars and plagues. It seems like God is "nudging" us towards making only one choice. The one he wants us to make.

 

[CG Didymus]

The view a Baha'i has been given about the Messengers of God is that they are of an uncalcuable number, who are throughout all of creation.

It can be seen as they are the stars of creation who's power comes from God. Each of these stars can be known by many names, but the source of their light is but one source, God.

So the names of God are incalculable.

Thus it is easy to see why a finite human mind limited to this world, can see that One Source of the light that shines upon us, as many sources. It is our attachment to names, or to specific attributes of a name, that cause the division. When we choose to see God is the source of all names, we in turn become one.

Likewise, this topic has an incalculable ways of being presented and discussed.

Regards Tony

So, God made the special ones, a whole bunch of them, and then the inferior, bumbling idiot ones that need to be told what to do and what to believe by the special ones?

 

[lukethethird]

Do you have a problem with it? And do you recommend a different source?

Now he asks for sources, now that he is a committed believer.

 

[CG Didymus]

Now he asks for sources, now that he is a committed believer.

There are sources out there they don't like. Ex-Baha'is and "Covenant" breakers are for sure not to be trusted.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you have a problem with it? And do you recommend a different source?

I see some is doubtful and would require further clarification.

My search found that the material has been collated to support a view.

I would offer that you look into the source of the document. I say no more than that, as it is not my intention to steer your choices.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's not free if the world is going to have to pay the price by going through wars and plagues. It seems like God is "nudging" us towards making only one choice. The one he wants us to make.

God wants the best of choices for us CG. That is why the Bab and Baha'u'llah came to offer guidance with those choices.

The rest is squarely upon our shoulders, as to how we accept that gift.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, God made the special ones, a whole bunch of them, and then the inferior, bumbling idiot ones that need to be told what to do and what to believe by the special ones?

You could choose to look at that in a different way.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are sources out there they don't like. Ex-Baha'is and "Covenant" breakers are for sure not to be trusted.

Firstly it is about Love, not hate or dislike.

So CG, it is your choice as to where you find out about the Baha'i Faith.

It is obvious Baha'i will make mistakes, especially as the whole purpose of faith is to become a different person, a better person.

So if mistakes were made, they are being learned from and as each person becomes more deepened, then the mistakes can be rectified. Faith is organic and as such also suffers from ebb and flow.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

What I liked about that article was how Rama had to be added in. So, who will be added to the list of "manifestations" in the next village? Here's a little more on how they stopped using the name, "Baha'u'llah".

Accusations were made that Baha'u'llah was an Islamic prophet and that Hindu villagers would eventually be forced to eat the holy mother cow (24*) The situation became serious enough that reference was made to it in a National Spiritual Assembly letter dated December 10, 1963 which stated among other things that several Baha'i teachers were "touring the erupting area at a great personal hazard."(25*)

One of the main problems in this regard, of course, is that the title Baha'u'llah is itself indicative of an Islamic identification. Consequently one of the fundamental linguistic changes apparent in many of the bhajans created during this time was the substitution of the Sanskritic term Bhagavan for the Arabic Allah. Bhagavan is related to the words bhajan and bhakti in that they are all derived from the same Sanskrit root bhaj (to partake of, as in participation in a religious rite). An early Vedic god, Bhaga was probably so named because of a connection to such rites, and by the medieval period Bhagavan had become to mean Supreme Being and was often associated with devotional movements connected with Rama and Krishna. In Malwa villages, therefore, Bhagavan would not only be used to refer to God per se (Allah) but to his avatars as well. This dual usage was reflected in one bhajan where at one point we hear the line: "Bhagavan has said that he will return in every age to restore righteousness" and then later: "We must spread the news of Bhagavan Baha" (26*) Baha'u'llah thus becomes Bhagavan Baha, a title no doubt much more congenial to the Hindu villager's ear and perhaps more befitting of the kalkin avatar:

• 
  "Oh sing the praises of Bhagavan Baha, Oh sing the peace message of Bhagavan Baha, Oh manifest today the shelter of Bhagavan Baha."

All's fair in trying to make converts, I guess.

In that game, anything goes. I have stories. When the end game is being saved from hell, or brought over to the 'justice' side, why not? It's a sad statement on the narrow-mindedness of humanity. But I believe those days are slowly ending. It's not as easy as it used to be, with education reaching far and wide, and Hinduism standing up. The number of states with anti-conversion (actually meaning anti-coercion) laws is increasing annually.

Imagine, turning to deceit, bribery, outright lies, and more over a religious belief. It seems so contrary to any love for humanity.

Have a great day.

 

[Trailblazer]

That you have plagiarized from Hinduism. Kaliyuga for 432,000 years. Why would a manifestation be under any shadow? Show me where is that written. Don't make random claims out of ...

I did not know where it originated so I had to do some research in order to find out where the 500,000 years is referenced in the Baha'i Writings.

21: BAHÁ’Í DISPENSATION (Duration of)

“Concerning your question relative to the duration of the Bahá’í Dispensation. There is no contradiction between Bahá’u’lláh’s statement in the Íqán about the renewal of the City of God once every thousand years, and that of the Guardian in the Dispensation to the effect that the Bahá’í cycle will extend over a period of at least 500,000 years. The apparent contradiction is due to the confusion of the terms cycle and dispensation. For while the Dispensation of Bahá’u’lláh will last for at least one thousand years, His Cycle will extend still farther, to at least 500,000 years.

“The Bahá’í cycle is, indeed, incomparable in its greatness. It includes not only the Prophets that will appear after Bahá’u’lláh, but all those who have preceded Him ever since Adam. These should, indeed, be viewed as constituting but preliminary stages leading gradually to the appearance of this supreme Manifestation of God.”
Directives from the Guardian, pp. 7-8

The following excerpt from a Tablet of Baha'u'llah is not an official translation so it is not in the Baha'i Reference Library.

Excerpt of Tablet by Baha’u’llah on 500,000 years

Tablet of I Am God

One should not pay attention to the enemies, He saith, exalted be He:

“Erelong you will hear the call of the clamorous impostor, don’t pay attention to him, but leave him to himself. Set your faces toward Him Who is the Object (the Qiblih) of the adoration of all mankind, who has fulfilled the proof with this Proof that is revealed through the power of truth (God, al-Haqq). The Lights have attained their consummation in this source (horizon) whence the splendor of (the) Might and (the) Grandeur is diffused. Blessed is the soul that hath been brought up as the servant with respect to God in that which has been sent down in the Scrolls and the Tablets. Say: If in each day another one is manifested, the cause of God will not find rest in the cities and the lands. This is the Revelation (Manifestation) that manifests itself (His own Self) every 500,000 years time only once.

Moreover, we unveiled the cover and we lifted the veil. Blessed is the man that recognized (‘arif) the purpose of God. In his recognition (‘irafah) has rejoiced in his heart and been made firm in the cause such that he cannot be made to stumble by the entire creation. Verily We unveiled in this Tablet a secret wrapt in secrets. This Revelation We have concealed that which is the Hidden lest the tumult of the wicked rise.”
Excerpt of Tablet by Baha'u'llah on 500,000 years - A Baha'i Resource of Gnosis, Certitude, and Science

In time, some very quickly and some late, all messages are corrupted.

The Writings of Baha'u'llah cannot be corrupted because the original Tablets are kept in a vault for safekeeping at the Baha'i World Centre.

You make claims that perhaps not even Bahaollah made. Bahaollah never said that Krishna and Buddha are manifestations of Allah. His message was corrupted by Abdul Baha and Shoghi. That is what happened to the messages of earlier manifestations as per your own view. They too had their own covenants.

Baha'u'llah never mentioned Krishna and Buddha in the Writings that have been translated into English thus far, but only about 15% of His Writings have been translated into English.

Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi were appointed by Baha'u'llah His Covenant as interpreters of His Writings. Shoghi Effendi translated some of Baha'u'llah's Tablets, the ones that were most important for us to have, but he did not translate all of them, but since he knew Persian and Arabic he probably knew what was in the original Tablets.

 

[Trailblazer]

So one can only see the evidence for god if one believes god exists.
Makes sense.

No, it is the other way around....
One can only believe God exists is one sees the evidence for God.
Makes sense

 

[Trailblazer]

The Abrahamic god removes free will anyway.

He did not remove it, He gave it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why did god create us with an ego that prevents us from seeing him?

We were created with an ego so we would have to struggle with our ego and overcome it.....

"This test is just as thou hast written: it removeth the rust of egotism from the mirror of the heart until the Sun of Truth may shine therein. For, no veil is greater than egotism and no matter how thin that covering may be, yet it will finally veil man entirely and prevent him from receiving a portion from the eternal bounty.”
Bahá’í World Faith, pp. 371-372

 

[Trailblazer]

Show us evidence that this is true. Use facts.

I do not have facts that prove what the future holds. Only God knows what the future holds.
I believe that people will become more spiritual because the Revelation of Baha'u'llah will eventually be known to everyone and everyone will believe in God in the future, but nobody knows how how that will go or how long it will take.

So you're not sure.

Of course I am not sure what is going to happen in the future or when it will happen. Only God knows that.

The world became divided due in part to God allowing diverse religions. So what is the plan? Use facts.

There is no plan except the plans that the Universal House of Justices sets forth. According to the dictates of the UHJ the Baha'is will keep working towards world unity. Baha'is not only work with other Baha'is, they work with those of other religions in interfaith councils. Nobody can predict how that will go as it is contingent upon many variables.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you could be wrong, about all of this, yes? You really have no way of knowing any of it is true, correct?

I have no way of knowing what is going to happen in the future but I don't really care because I live fully in the present. Whatever will happen will happen and it will be what God has foreordained.

 

[loverofhumanity]

To claim that Baha'u'llah taught something better than that is dishonest.

Can you please clarify?