If God existed would there be proof?

[Trailblazer]

The riddle remains: satisfactory evidence of what, exactly?

That God exists, as that seems to be the concern of atheists...

 

[Trailblazer]

IMO the proof of God is that love

And where is the proof that God is Love?

 

[Trailblazer]

What good is faith when you have evidence?

There is evidence that the Messenger is a Messenger from God but I have to have faith in what can never be proven with any evidence, that God spoke to the Messenger.

 

[Clara Tea]

Sorry, I failed to understand what is meant with this in relationship to what Im talking about, can you elaborate?

You mentioned a cat and were talking about the debate about whether God exists.

So, I showed you how physicists handle issues of existence of subatomic particles, and thought that we could apply the same math or logic to the puzzle at hand.

 

[Clara Tea]

Was religion and God invented by those that were in high places, and didn't suffer much, to get people in low places, that did suffer much, to get them to be happy and joyful knowing that an invisible God was going to reward them later? He has promised eternal life. He promised to take vengeance against evil people that hurt them. He promised new bodies that could run and not get weary. To some he promised lots of virgins. To others, if they were good, offered them a better reincarnated life.

Lots and lots of things just to get people to do good and be happy no matter how difficult things got. Plus, he told them some of those things he caused... just to test them to get them to grow even more spiritual. Except some of those tests break people.

If religion was invented by the rich, it was to take what little money the poor had to pay for their mansions. (Case in point, Reverend Jim Bakker and Tammy Fay Bakker taking donations that were supposed to go to starving Africans, and misappropriating the money for their mansion).

If the rich really did care about the poor, they wouldn't be rich (they'd spend the money helping the poor).

The idea of getting a reward later was behind the notion of "casting bread upon the water." That is, if you give what little money you have to the rich guy on the pulpit, you'll get ten times that much money back (good karma). Somehow, the poor stay poor doing that.

 

[Clara Tea]

Did someone disprove all the thousands of deities humans have created that you don't believe exist? Any chance you could forward a pdf of that?

Maybe we could ask God to do that. Oh, yeah, I forgot, we were proving that Gods don't exist. Other than that glitch, God would make a great secretary (answering phone calls before they are called...etc).

 

[Clara Tea]

There could be proof if God wanted us to have proof since God is omnipotent, so we can deduce that there is a reason God does not provide proof. From reading the Bible the answer is obvious. God does not provide proof because God wants our faith, and with proof, faith would no longer be necessary.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

Maybe we should appease Him if he doesn't exist, just to be on the safe side? Are there any virgins to sacrifice?

 

[Clara Tea]

Wouldn't it be easier and far more efficient to just present his holiness to everyone in a way that all can experience objectively? Why play around? Just cut to the chase and avoid all the death, destruction, pain, suffering, and confusion.

Where is the game in that?

 

[Clara Tea]

Its not a matter of thinking.

Anything that exists, has proof that it does. Thats simple logic. We may not have discovered them.

Prove love.

 

[blü 2]

That God exists, as that seems to be the concern of atheists...

But though I'm a non-believer, I'm not an atheist. Rather I'm an igtheist.

That is, I think the question "Does a real, non-imaginary god exist?" is meaningless unless and until we know what real non-imaginary thing is meant to be denoted by the word "god".

Which plainly we don't ─ unless you have a photo handy.

 

[Clara Tea]

There is only one God, the creator God, and imo anything that did not create us is not our God.

Suppose some God created us, then went away and put the janitor in charge?

Presumably, when God kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden, he put Satan in charge. Is that the God that everyone prays to?

 

[Clara Tea]

But though I'm a non-believer, I'm not an atheist. Rather I'm an igtheist.

That is, I think the question "Does a real, non-imaginary god exist?" is meaningless unless and until we know what real non-imaginary thing is meant to be denoted by the word "god".

Which plainly we don't ─ unless you have a photo handy.

It's okay if God is imaginary, as long as we are too.

 

[Clara Tea]

And where is the proof that God is Love?

God loved to drown people (Noah's flood). Does that count?

 

[Trailblazer]

But though I'm a non-believer, I'm not an atheist. Rather I'm an igtheist.

That is, I think the question "Does a real, non-imaginary god exist?" is meaningless unless and until we know what real non-imaginary thing is meant to be denoted by the word "god".

Which plainly we don't ─ unless you have a photo handy.

Are you asking for a description of God?

 

[blü 2]

It's okay if God is imaginary, as long as we are too.

I'm not imaginary, and I've been working on the assumption that you're not either. But please feel free to correct me if that's wrong.

Meanwhile we're real and God exists only as a concept or thing imagined in individual brains. (If God had objective existence, there'd only be one basic version of [him], and not the thousands or millions of gods that have existed and exist across time and cultures.)

 

[Trailblazer]

God loved to drown people (Noah's flood). Does that count?

Not as love, if it ever happened, but I don't believe most Bible stories are actual historical events.
Do you have anything else showing God's love that can be verified?

 

[blü 2]

Are you asking for a description of God?

All the descriptions of God that I'm aware of are useless if God is real. Instead they describe God as a composite of imaginary qualities like omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, perfect, eternal, infinite ─ and so on.

But if you have a description appropriate to a real god, one with objective existence (not imaginary, found in the world external to the self) such that if we found a real suspect we could determine whether it was God or not ─ yes, I'd be very interested to know of it.

 

[Trailblazer]

All the descriptions of God that I'm aware of are useless if God is real. Instead they describe God as a composite of imaginary qualities like omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, perfect, eternal, infinite ─ and so on.

But if you have a description appropriate to a real god, one with objective existence (not imaginary, found in the world external to the self) such that if we found a real suspect we could determine whether it was God or not ─ yes, I'd be very interested to know of it.

I believe that God has objective existence in the sense that God exists in reality, outside the mind, but I cannot give you a physical description of God since God is not a material entity that can be tracked down and seen.
Nevertheless, below is the depiction of God according to my beliefs.

God in the Baháʼí Faith

 

[Clara Tea]

I'm not imaginary, and I've been working on the assumption that you're not either. But please feel free to correct me if that's wrong.

Meanwhile we're real and God exists only as a concept or thing imagined in individual brains. (If God had objective existence, there'd only be one basic version of [him], and not the thousands or millions of gods that have existed and exist across time and cultures.)

Matthew 19:26 - And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

That might mean being one God to one group and being another God (with different rules) for another group.

Maybe we are like the 3 blind men and an elephant....one feels the tail and thinks that an elephant is a rope....another feels the trunk and thinks that an elephant is a hose.....another feels a leg and things that an elephant is a tree? Perhaps, with mankind's limited intelligence, we perceive a creature of much greater intelligence but cannot fullly understand it? It is like telling my dog to drive my car. Perhaps we perceive just one aspect of a greater creature, but all of the aspects combined would make a clearer picture?

 

[muhammad_isa]

What good is faith when you have evidence?

The two are not mutually exclusive.