• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Opposing Views

NewGuyOnTheBlock

NewGuyOnTheBlock

Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
It seems to me that the bill is either poorly interpreted, or poorly written. Knowing Texas, probably poorly written with the religious underpinning of cramming Creationism into the classroom.

I support, of course, presenting opposing but equal views. Not all opposing views are equal, however. Presenting unequal opposing views seems absurd and even potentially dangerous.
 
L

Lain

Well-Known Member
The Hammer said:
In one Texas district, teachers were told to give 'opposing' views of the Holocaust

Should we be discussing "opposing views" to the Holocaust?

There doesn't seem to be anything to oppose, but I'm sure people have their reasons.
Click to expand...

The administrator was just trolling to highlight the ridiculousness of a Texas law it seems to me, which wanted "both sides" on an issue. We shouldn't be discussing both sides to something like that, not all sides are equal, some people's takes aren't even worthy of consideration.

I think they may have been mocking this part of the law:

(2) teachers who choose to discuss current events or
widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy
or social affairs shall, to the best of their ability, strive to
explore such issues from diverse and contending perspectives
without giving deference to any one perspective;

Perhaps holocaust acceptance vs. denial they considered to be under "currently controversial issues" which maybe it is, I don't know. It seems fringe to me, but even with current events that are truly widely debated "both sides" are not always valid.
 
Last edited:
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Lain said:
The administrator was just trolling to highlight the ridiculousness of a Texas law it seems to me, which wanted "both sides" on an issue. We shouldn't be discussing both sides to something like that, not all sides are equal, some people's takes aren't even worthy of consideration.
Click to expand...
And kudos to the administrator to do so.

There is as term for this. It is called "Malicious Compliance". When a supervisor of some sort, in this case the state legislature, gives you an insane order the best way to show that it is incredibly idiotic is to follow that law, But make sure that you document how you are following the order of your superiors. He did just that:

"Just try to remember the concepts of [House Bill] 3979," Peddy could be heard saying on tape, according to NBC News. "And make sure that if you have a book on the Holocaust, that you have one that has an opposing, that has other perspectives."

Oooh, I really like this administrator!
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The Hammer said:
In one Texas district, teachers were told to give 'opposing' views of the Holocaust

Should we be discussing "opposing views" to the Holocaust?

There doesn't seem to be anything to oppose, but I'm sure people have their reasons.
Click to expand...

I don't see a problem with it. Its important that students are open to express their views on sensitive issues even if those views doesn't conform to the norm. It's telling students they "have" to believe the holocaust is bad and that's that. I don't see that as proper education. The only good thing about the holocaust I can think of is approaching it from the efficiency in which the holocaust was planned and discussing the success of that plan. It doesn't have to promote genocide to look at it in a more productive way for instruction and open conversation.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
I don't see a problem with it. Its important that students are open to express their views on sensitive issues even if those views doesn't conform to the norm. It's telling students they "have" to believe the holocaust is bad and that's that. I don't see that as proper education. The only good thing about the holocaust I can think of is approaching it from the efficiency in which the holocaust was planned and discussing the success of that plan. It doesn't have to promote genocide to look at it in a more productive way for instruction and open conversation.
Click to expand...
As @Lain pointed out the administrator was trolling the legislation. It was an extremely stupid law. It is not a teacher's job to teach all sides to something. How much time should they deal with 2 + 2 = 3 or 2 + 2 = 5? And where would they find sources that support those claims. Almost every concept has some insane deniers out there saying "that ain't so". There are Flat Earthers, YEC's, OEC's, 9/11 troofers and countless others.

A teacher's job is to teach and that is hard enough with what we know is true.
 
Orbit

Orbit

I'm a planet
Twilight Hue said:
I have to respond that it's vitally important to get two sides from every debate in order to obtain the full picture and even truths.

Even parts in dark history that people would like to place in a vault and drown it in the sea.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you'd like to present the "other side" of the Manson murders?
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Sure, as long as the teacher is ethical and professional. Tell the kids that there are disgusting people who deny the Holocaust. Science class should tell children that there is a fraudulent movement that claims evolution isn't true.

Of course being Texas we won't know if the teacher is a Holocaust denier or a creationist. These folks should be asked to resign. They can't be trusted as educators.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
As @Lain pointed out the administrator was trolling the legislation. It was an extremely stupid law. It is not a teacher's job to teach all sides to something. How much time should they deal with 2 + 2 = 3 or 2 + 2 = 5? And where would they find sources that support those claims. Almost every concept has some insane deniers out there saying "that ain't so". There are Flat Earthers, YEC's, OEC's, 9/11 troofers and countless others.

A teacher's job is to teach and that is hard enough with what we know is true.
Click to expand...

I don't know where they find the material but discussing the good sides of the Holocaust does not have to focus on genocide. It's like discussing various ways to solve the same problem with the correct answer.

I do see an educational benefit. It depends on how it's approached. We shouldn't tell students they should only think f one dude of events we believe is ethically horrific. It's not about taking sides but discussing both sides.

It has nothing to do with deniers. That's not the purpose of the legislation. Critical thinking about history needs to approach varies events in productive ways. It's not saying the Holocaust was a good idea.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said:
I don't see a problem with it. Its important that students are open to express their views on sensitive issues even if those views doesn't conform to the norm. It's telling students they "have" to believe the holocaust is bad and that's that. I don't see that as proper education.
Click to expand...
Well any mentally sound person will understand the Holocaust is bad. Does it have to be taught as a bad thing? No. But there will be sociopaths who don't get it because they have a genetic fault that doesn't allow them to feel empathy.

The only good thing about the holocaust I can think of is approaching it from the efficiency in which the holocaust was planned and discussing the success of that plan.
Click to expand...
It wasn't planned. At first the Nazis were just going to move these people to the east, beyond the occupied parts of Russia. Of course the war didn't;t go as planned, and the Nazis quickly got tired of managing the Jews they had in custody. This is when a group of Nazis met to discuss the Final Solution to the Jewish problem. This was 1942. Extermination became that solution. Was it efficient? Not al all. It was very sloppy.

t doesn't have to promote genocide to look at it in a more productive way for instruction and open conversation.
Click to expand...
So students could discuss how the Nazis could have exterminated the Jews faster and more efficiently? It's not about genocide, it how to make genocide more PRODUCTIVE.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The problem is there is too much personal opinion. Discussing history isn't/shouldn't be taken from a biased approach. That's why in the US many schools cannot talk about their religious and political views. Encouraging open dialogue doesn't mean you have to agree or disagree with the topic for or against.

A student should be able to say the Holocaust was a good idea without being reprimanded for it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top