Its Good news .

[ChristineM]

Good news for those who want to believe it's good news. Propaganda to still the masses for others. Bad news for those it condems to hell. Lies to massage the egos of the gullible to some.

It all depends on who you are evangelising at.

 

[sayak83]

Yes

but that doesn't change the fact that it ( the gospel) is good news . Wed all be lost if Jesus never went to the cross or resurrected.

No. The bad news is that the Gospels believe that we are going to hell in our current default state. That is an absolutely horrible thing to believe in and to preach.

The gospel first preaches that we all have a terminal disease and then goes on to advertise a cure.

 

[viole]

But its good news isn't it ? For us . IF its true? . Which i believe it is .

I don't think it is. Because now I have a requirement more to fulfil: believe it.
Which is very difficult considering how implausible that looks to me. So, it would have been better if I never heard of it, right?

Ciao

- viole

 

[John1.12]

No. The bad news is that the Gospels believe that we are going to hell in our current default state. That is an absolutely horrible thing to believe in and to preach.

The gospel first preaches that we all have a terminal disease and then goes on to advertise a cure.

Yes , but if its true then then 1 cor 15 .1-4 is good news then ?

 

[John1.12]

I don't think it is. Because now I have a requirement more to fulfil: believe it.
Which is very difficult considering how implausible that looks to me. So, it would have been better if I never heard of it, right?

Ciao

- viole

Its still good news either way if it is indeed true . Objectively true . You hearing about it ( like now ) doesn't change what it is . Now you can decide its not good news for you ,for what ever reason .

 

[John1.12]

I don't think it is. Because now I have a requirement more to fulfil: believe it.
Which is very difficult considering how implausible that looks to me. So, it would have been better if I never heard of it, right?

Ciao

- viole

Essentially what I'm getting at is that christianity is argued against for a lot of negative things ,when ironically the central message ( the gospel) is simply but profoundly ' Good news ' .

 

[sayak83]

Yes , but if its true then then 1 cor 15 .1-4 is good news then ?

The OP is about whether the entire gospel is good news or not. It is not as it says that our default current state damns us to hell. I have no idea about whether a few sentences here and there is good news or not, nor was it the point you wanted to established.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The' Gospel ' literally means 'good news ' .This is described in a nut shell in 1 cor .15 .1-4

1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Often Christianity is argued against for various reasons ,but negatively .the central message is actually 'good news ' literally.
Good news for the whole world. The message of how Jesus has died for our sins . Its 'good news '. Why do some treat it as bad news . Its a free gift also . You cannot earn it . Its the offer of eternal life.
So it's:
- eternal life ,
- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .
- Peace with God
- Justification
- redemption
- Blessed with all spiritual blessings
- Its all a free gift
- cannot be earned
- recieved through faith
- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .
Even if you argue that its not true, I don't believe its sensible to argue that the message ( Gospel ) is negative, or bad news ,if it is indeed true . Which of course I believe it is .
Thoughts?

My thoughts are that simply not mentioning all the nasty stuff, doesn't make it go away.

The bible is a big book and it says a lot more then what you wrote here.

 

[metis]

Catholics believe in invincible ignorance, that those who haven't heard might be saved. Forget crucifying Jesus, burn all the books and shut down the churches, statistically better odds of saving more people than vice versa?

The fact is that we teach not to judge as that's God's domain, and this includes those in other religions as well.

 

[halbhh]

“one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour.”

Some non-believers try to claim that God hardened the pharaoh's heart in Exodus not giving him any free choice, which is false --> they simply didn't read, or they would have noticed the evils the pharaoh had been doing of his own choice before divine intervention.

The picture that emerges from the careful reading: First the pharaoh does evil on a big scale (continues the brutal slavery and oppression done by the previous king...examples: Exodus 3:7,9 and first half of Exodus chapter 5), on his own, by his own free choice, without any divine interference or intervention.

And then, after that, God chooses that this evil pharaoh will become a means for God to demonstrate deliverance to Israel, and decides to harden this already-evil pharaoh's heart in a future moment.

So, about the vessels chosen to dishonor we see by merely reading the text -- there are 2 steps, not 1.

1rst: Human choices of striving more towards good, or more towards evil, freely done on our own

2nd: And then God's response at some point to conclude individually some will be vessels of honor or dishonor.

 

[John1.12]

My thoughts are that simply not mentioning all the nasty stuff, doesn't make it go away.

The bible is a big book and it says a lot more then what you wrote here.

Yes but a person is not saved by reading the whole bible . Barely anyone would be saved if it took that long.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wed all be lost if Jesus never went to the cross or resurrected.

We would be lost if Jesus had never gone to the cross, but the resurrection was not part of the deal; it was nothing that Jesus did for us, just fictional stories that men wrote about Jesus long after Jesus lived and died to try to bring Jesus back to life after He had died. It is fairly obvious what happened, to any objective observer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes but a person is not saved by reading the whole bible . Barely anyone would be saved if it took that long.

And I get balled out for not reading the whole Bible, and I am not even a Christian?

 

[Moonjuice]

So what would you propose?

Interesting thought. If I were god, I imagine there are tons of things I would do differently, that would impact the reward and punishment system. I suppose before I did anything, I would make it 100% clear to every human on earth that I exist and I am the only real god to have ever existed. I'd stop hiding immediately. By being hidden, I look identical to every single god that humans have invented that are not real. Since I am real, I would make it absolutely clear so its never open for discussion. I would reveal myself directly to every human from the time they are born until the time they die. Then, since they know I exist, they can decide if they want to follow my rules or not.

Second, I wouldn't set up the rules to require human sacrifice as scapegoat system to offer people who are completely uninvolved in the happenings of the bronze aged middle east to be forgiven for the crimes of their ancestors that reportedly took place thousands of years before any of us were born.

Third, I'd remove suffering from children. I wouldn't allow a single innocent child to suffer from solvable issues like food and clean drinking water. I'm throwing this in only because it would be so easy to do and obviously should be done.

Fourth, if I had to have a reward or punishment system, it wouldn't be based on how easily you can be convinced something is true without sufficient evidence. I wouldn't reward people for simply believing, I'd reward them for how they act. I would make it based on how good you were as a person. How much of the time you spent on earth treating people well. Good people get rewarded, bad people don't. I'd never set up a system where bad people (doing the worst things) can get rewarded and good people can get punished.

Next, I would have developed a much better system to explain the rules of human existence and what God actually wants from us, than the bible. This has clearly been an ineffective way to communicate the thoughts of the all-knowing creator of the universe, because even those that are convinced he exists do not agree on how to interpret the text. It's a total failure. If text is my only option, then first off, I would write the entire book and I would make certain everyone knows I wrote it. Maybe a copy would magically appear in the in the hand of every living human instantly, perfectly written in a language they understand. I would include hundreds of statements that make it perfectly clear that the text could only come from a God and not a human, so everyone on the planet would be on a level playing field. (Think unknown scientific facts 4,000 years ago like the germ theory of disease, or how the process of evolution works, tectonic plates causing earthquakes and tsunami's, maybe even a discussion of automobiles, airplanes, and carbon pollution etc.) Whatever method I chose to explain my rules to all humans, I would make certain that everyone has identical information, not open for interpretation, in order to decide if they want to follow me or not. That means no parables. No hidden meanings. No metaphorical stories. Facts only, simplified for all humans. This way all humans would know they are created equal, regardless of gender, color, race, or geography. Especially women. No humans can every be owned as slaves. Rape and murder is never allowed, (you certainly wont have to marry your rapist). Etc.
If I wasn't bound by text, I would make all the rules 100% imbedded in the minds of all humans from an early age. So everyone, no matter when or where they were born, knows exactly what everyone else knows regarding my existence and what the rules are for existing.

Last, if all of this was done correctly, then I would set up a punishment system that fits the crime. No eternal punishment. I would immediately and permanently snuff out those who break the worst rules (murderers and rapists etc.) and give them no chance at all for any sort of eternal bliss with god. I wouldn't wait until they die to punish them, I would remove them from existence right away. Everyone on earth will see what the punishment is for things like murder, rape etc. so only sociopaths or suicidal people would do it. (or maybe I'll just not create any sociopaths, murderers, etc?) For everyone else, rewards would be given to people based on how well they followed the rules with their actions.
Or, better yet, I suppose I'd be happy creating galaxy's and just leave us alone completely and let the process of evolution run its course. It wont be easy, we'll have to come up with our own laws on how to treat people that we think define good and bad actions, then come up with our own punishments for those crimes that we will all agree to follow in each civilization throughout time. Or is that the world we already live in?

 

[viole]

Its still good news either way if it is indeed true . Objectively true . You hearing about it ( like now ) doesn't change what it is . Now you can decide its not good news for you ,for what ever reason .

Let me ask you this: if I never heard about those good news, what influence wold that have on my eternal destiny? A positive one, or a negative one?

Ciao

- viole

 

[John1.12]

And I get balled out for not reading the whole Bible, and I am not even a Christian?

A saved person should read the whole Bible. A lost person needs to understand and believe the Gospel. They don't have to read the entire Bible to receive Jesus. John 1.12

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes but a person is not saved by reading the whole bible . Barely anyone would be saved if it took that long.

I'll give you props for this most original cop-out.

 

[John1.12]

Let me ask you this: if I never heard about those good news, what influence wold that have on my eternal destiny? A positive one, or a negative one?

Ciao

- viole

If you never heard the gospel it wouldn't ' influence ' your eternal destiny . ' influence ' is the wrong word.

 

[John1.12]

I'll give you props for this most original cop-out.

Expand please?

 

[John1.12]

I'll give you props for this most original cop-out.

There's no verse in the bible that says in order to recieve Jesus, one has to read the entire bible.