Brian2
Veteran Member
Well, let’s start with the last part first:
The ‘He’ is forced, designed to make IT seem like a person. All righteous eternity agrees that the Greek did not designate a gender explicitly here. The word, “ekeinos” is offered by STRONGS as:
- “HE (?) will glorify me by taking from what is mine...”
Literally, therefore, ‘IT’.
- “that one (or neut. that thing)” (1565)
I think ekeinos just takes the gender of the noun it is describing and "spirit" is a neuter word. We do know that the Spirit is more than just a thing however because it grieves and teaches and knows the mind of God, just as the spirit in man knows the mind of a man. (1Cor 2:11) So a spirit is not just a force. The Spirit of God is also alive and comes to dwell in us and is called "living waters". (John 14:17, John 4:10)
But more importantly, how, if the Holy Spirit IS UNFETTERED ALMIGHTY GOD, (ha ha ha...EQUAL TO GOD!! - oh boy..., the mind boggles at the senseless logic!) that Jesus has, GIVEN TO HIM (Jesus... who himself, by trinity, is also UNFETTERED ALMIGHTY GOD!) all knowledge and power that the Father has?
Howbeit Trinitarians cannot agree with the scriptures they claim they gain their knowledge from, that the Father GRANTED Jesus TO HAVE these things. Being GRANTED means gifted something that one did not have previously - yet trinity claims Jesus had it all along...
I'm not sure if you are putting words in my mouth when you say "unfettered". The Father is the one true God and the Spirit is in the Father and the Father in the Spirit and the Spirit knows the mind of God.
The Son is in the Father and the Father in the Spirit and the Son became a man, stepping into the creation so to speak, and laid aside His omniscience as a man and relied on His Father for all things, just as we do. The Father gave Him knowledge of things and held back other knowledge from Him when He was on earth. When He rose from the dead He was given all power and authority in heaven and on earth (Matt 28) and so He is equal in power and authority to His Father. It was His and His Father gave it to Him as His inheritance as His Son, just as what happens in earthly terms. Jesus rose and fills all the universe, all things (Eph 4:10) but is still a man bodily also. (Col 2:9) He has taken back His Godly omnis, He is everywhere and knows all things and and has all power. Yet He is still the Son and does as His Father wants and is still a man and so still has a God and His Father became His God when He became a man (Psalm 22:10)
We can see from this that there is a transition FROM the Father, to the Son, and onto the Holy Spirit. Yet trinity claims that the three are co-equal in almighty omniscience.
My understanding is that the Trinity doctrine is that the 3 persons have the same nature but the Son on becoming a man became as I said above.
How does the Holy Spirit not have what the Father has...
How does the Holy Spirit not have what Jesus has - after Jesus is gifted it by the Father.
Is this another example of [a] God who veils his power? A new trinity teaching... my guess, yes! Since trinity modifies itself as each of its fallacies is uncovered.
The Spirit is God and so has what God has (2Cor 3:17). The Spirit is not another God, the Spirit is the same God as the Father and the Father is the one called the only true God because the Spirit is His and the Son is His. The presence of the the Father and Son is in the Spirit (John 14:23) The Spirit is who went with Israel in the wilderness and God's presence was in Him to go with them.
or they simply go underground away from the debate so as not to imbibe the truth only to resurface again elsewhere with their same false doctrine or a modified version..,YET we know that:
That is what I see with those who deny the trinity. Denying it means to deny scriptures that show otherwise.
‘All power and authority has been granted to me, Jesus said. But nonetheless, ‘All’ does not include the SEAT OF POWER, the throne of God. And this is illustrated by the two themes I outlined: Joseph and Mordeciah. And... written in the scriptures:
Need anymore be said?
- “For he ‘has put everything under his feet.’ Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.” (1 Cor 15:27)
Jesus sits on the throne with His Father. The one on the throne who created all things alone and is worthy to receive power and honor and glory and who is coming is God and that God is 3 persons. Who is coming? Jesus. Who created all things -Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who has all power, who receives power? (Rev 4)
Who is speaking from the throne about God in the third person? (Rev 21:3)
Who is speaking from the throne and says "Praise our God"? (Rev 19:5)
Jesus is a man with a body but is full deity (Col 2:9) and has a God because He is a man and submits to His God and Father.
I’m glad to see you asking these questions... No, it does not belong to Jesus. You cannot be GIVEN something for a period of time to perform a function, and then after performing the function, hand the thing BACK and yet STILL have it as YOURS. Nothing goes such. What happened with Jesus is that LATER, after the world and heaven is TESTED as to its conformity to the holy order OF GOD, Jesus SITS DOWN TO JUDGE the WORLD (not Heaven) and selects those whom pleases him to GRANT THEM ETERNAL LIFE IN HIS KINGDOM (the world - creation) that the Father then GRANTS TO HIM, thus fulfilling the prophesy of the Son REIGNING OVER CREATION. Nowhere does ANY SCRIPTURE claim that Jesus REIGNS over HEAVEN... THE Father REMAINS THE RULER.
Heaven is an endless spirit realm.
Creation is a ‘room’ in the MANSION of his Father. Scriptures tells us he went to PREPARE this room for his followers FROM within his Fathers mansion. Nowhere does it say that Jesus rules the mansion of heaven.
Jesus was appointed to be firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth (Ps 89:27) Jesus is firstborn over creation (Col 1:15<16) Jesus is ruler of creation (Rev 3:14) Every knee in heaven and on earth will bow to Him because He is Lord of ALL. (Phil 2:10-11)
Jesus is King of the Kingdom of God,,,,,,,,,,,,all of it.
Why did Jesus hand back the Kingdom? So that God would be all in all and Jesus would not be taking over the reigns and usurping the rule in the Kingdom over His Father. Jesus is still King of Kings and Lord of Lords and His Father also is. They both reign forever along with the Spirit who is the Lord. (2Cor 3:17)
Zech 14:8 And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the Eastern Sea and the other half toward the Western Sea, in summer and winter alike. 9 On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth— the LORD alone, and His name alone.
Who is ruling over the earth? The LORD alone. Who is the LORD. The LORD is God and Jesus has inherited His Fathers name, the name above all names. (Heb 1:3, Phil 2:9)
Do you see the spiritual realm as part of creation?
Why did Joseph hand back the rulership by the seal (equiv: Holy Spirit) of Egypt to Pharoah after Joseph fulfilled his mission to oversee the famine in Egypt?
Why did Mordeciah hand back the signet ring of king Xerxes (equiv: Holy Spirit) to king Xerxes after modecaih fulfilled the day of Purim?
Answered above. Jesus was not usurping the throne, in the end it is God who is the only redeemer and who is in control and we all, including the man Jesus, who sits on the throne with His Father forever, recognise that and should also recognise The Son and the Spirit as being in the Father, just as we should recognise the Father and Spirit as being in the Son, bodily and that the Father and Son are in the Spirit and so the Father and Son are omnipresent and come to live in us when we have the Spirit.
The world (not Heaven) to come will by no means be ruled by angels” (Hebrew 2:5)
At least you don't seem to be saying that Jesus is an angel now, Michael the archangel.
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