Christians! Do you despise Abominations? There's only one left to hate....which?

[oldbadger]

And yet it was birthed on the fact that he died and resurrected. I choose to believe that as did the people who lived in his time.

No, they didn't. The churches started up quite slowly, and with a tiny % of the population.
But I don't believe that he died, and his resurrection account got tagged on the end of Mark later on.

Certainly Paul said, (paraphrased) - "if he didn't die and resurrect then all my preaching is in vain". - Since Paul was a contemporary of that time, I see it as a validation.

After studying the gospels for myself I have to say that Paul's teachings were in vain, for me and millions of Brits.
Paul never knew Jesus and never once did Paul bother to write a single story or anecdote about Jesus or his mission, apart from the last 36 hours.

 

[Kenny]

You accuse me of making up words and look at that.
Question to witness: How come you failed to make mention of the most exciting and special moments in your time with Jesus?
John: Why would I? Other people wrote about me.

Jury: *snickers*

John was not there. His gospel shows that. I'm amazed that he didn't mention his Mum at the execution.

Not making up words... but rather just saying that John wasn't writing letter to you.

I think the whole of his letter is about the most special times and thoughts with his time with Jesus.

 

[Kenny]

To spin Capitalism out of Jesus and his real values is as hypocritical as the Temple priesthood had been in his time.
One Christian once told me that because Jesus had owned his own clothes so this was clear evidence that personal possessions were good ... He was a millionaire. !!!

Such spin.

Just reading what it says.

He took away the talent of the lazy person and gave it to the person who had the best capacity. What he didn't say was, "Ok Mr. 5 talent that made 5 more... I'm taking one talent away from you because you have the most and we don't want to take away from the middle class (3 talent) and I'm giving it the one who is lazy".

The capitalistic principle is "you start where you are at and work with what you got even if someone started ahead of you"

Jesus had no problem owning a home or being a carpenter up to the age of 30.

Did Jesus own a home in Capernaum?

Owning a home is a principle of capitalism.

What ridiculous things another Christian says doesn't change what the word of God says.

 

[Kenny]

Ken, God is not our judge here because he has not shown any such evidence of being here.

I think this is a different subject. My view is that it is more of interpretation of evidence and not the lack thereof. I think it took a God to create someone that is as complex and intricate (in a good way) as you. But that is my interpretation of what I see.

 

[oldbadger]

Not making up words... but rather just saying that John wasn't writing letter to you.

I think the whole of his letter is about the most special times and thoughts with his time with Jesus.

You have to be kidding me!

Gospel of Mark (NIV) :-2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

Question to John: Why didn't mention the experience that Mark wrote about?
John: Oh that...... Meh..... not that special.........

There are so many other pieces of evidence to show that John was not there. Overwhelming evidence. That's a new thread, I think.......

 

[oldbadger]

Just reading what it says.

He took away the talent of the lazy person and gave it to the person who had the best capacity. What he didn't say was, "Ok Mr. 5 talent that made 5 more... I'm taking one talent away from you because you have the most and we don't want to take away from the middle class (3 talent) and I'm giving it the one who is lazy".

The capitalistic principle is "you start where you are at and work with what you got even if someone started ahead of you"

....... which a lot of greedy Christians cling to to support their conduct and politics.
Nobody is offended by private business and saving, but when fat greedy extreme capitalists avoid paying community taxes, quite careless of the disabled, unfortunate, sick and poor, then their tenets become most wicked.

Jesus told exactly what extreme wealth does to people...... Mammon.

Jesus had no problem owning a home or being a carpenter up to the age of 30.

Did Jesus own a home in Capernaum?

Owning a home is a principle of capitalism.

That's absolute rubbish.
Mark's gospel explains quite clearly that Jesus stayed with Cephas, Andrew and their mother..... that was his home.
Millions of Americans don't own their own homes.

And what idiot wrote that article?

Did Jesus own a home in Capernaum?

But notice what Mark says in verse 1:
When He [Jesus] had come back to Capernaum several days afterward; it was heard that He was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking to them. (NASV)
It talks about this house being Jesus’ home. By the size of the crowd it was obvious Jesus was a bit of a celebrity in the city.

Do you honestly think that the fishing community of Capernaum was a 'city' back then? And surely you don't think that Jesus had purchased a home within days of arriving?
And he wasn't just a carpeneter but a nagar or nagarra (Greek tecton) he worked in bone, stone and wood, expect.

What ridiculous things another Christian says doesn't change what the word of God says.

That's why HJ students take care over what Christians try to tell them.
The only depositions (not letters, Ken, depositions) are those written by apostles and other disciples, maybe about 6-7 in total. From trawling through these a more accurate verdict might be reached.

 

[oldbadger]

I think this is a different subject. My view is that it is more of interpretation of evidence and not the lack thereof.

Some of the interpretations are quite amazing, others can be shocking.

I think it took a God to create someone that is as complex and intricate (in a good way) as you. But that is my interpretation of what I see.

Me? the carbon in me (and you) had to come from another star because ours isn't big enough, hot enough to produce it yet.
We are stardust...... and nature's product.

 

[Kenny]

You have to be kidding me!

Gospel of Mark (NIV) :-2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

Question to John: Why didn't mention the experience that Mark wrote about?
John: Oh that...... Meh..... not that special.........

There are so many other prieces of evidence to show that John was not there. Overwhelming evidence. That's a new thread, I think.......

Again, I know that you want him to write what Mark already wrote. But you would be hard to find someone who doesn't believe that what the disciple/apostle John was just as impactful as what Mark, Matthew and Luke wrote.

Who doesn't know "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

And the term of being born-again.

I already posted things that did match the other gospels (because he was there)

 

[Kenny]

....... which a lot of greedy Christians cling to to support their conduct and politics.
Nobody is offended by private business and saving, but when fat greedy extreme capitalists avoid paying community taxes, quite careless of the disabled, unfortunate, sick and poor, then their tenets become most wicked.

Jesus told exactly what extreme wealth does to people...... Mammon.

Again... you are talking about what people do and not what the Word of God says.

When God told my wife and I, "Sell all that is in your house and give it to missions" - we obeyed and sold everything in the house.

Politics is changing the goal post.

That's absolute rubbish.
Mark's gospel explains quite clearly that Jesus stayed with Cephas, Andrew and their mother..... that was his home.
Millions of Americans don't own their own homes.

And what idiot wrote that article?

Did Jesus own a home in Capernaum?

But notice what Mark says in verse 1:
When He [Jesus] had come back to Capernaum several days afterward; it was heard that He was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking to them. (NASV)
It talks about this house being Jesus’ home. By the size of the crowd it was obvious Jesus was a bit of a celebrity in the city.

Do you honestly think that the fishing community of Capernaum was a 'city' back then? And surely you don't think that Jesus had purchased a home within days of arriving?
And he wasn't just a carpeneter but a nagar or nagarra (Greek tecton) he worked in bone, stone and wood, expect.

I think you are not being logical here. Where do you think Mary lived at? And is it not also the home of Jesus (as the inheritor?)

Do you think that God wants everyone to live in poverty?

Do you think (in Jewish understanding) that Jesus didn't believe in Deuteronomy 28:1-14 and didn't live with that understanding?

I think you are really working hard to push a thought that isn't biblical in any form.

That's why HJ students take care over what Christians try to tell them.
The only depositions (not letters, Ken, depositions) are those written by apostles and other disciples, maybe about 6-7 in total. From trawling through these a more accurate verdict might be reached.

Have no idea what "HJ" or what you are trying to relay.

 

[Kenny]

Some of the interpretations are quite amazing, others can be shocking.


Me? the carbon in me (and you) had to come from another star because ours isn't big enough, hot enough to produce it yet.
We are stardust...... and nature's product.

LOL... same evidence and different interpretations. This was the "shocking" view for me

But appreciate you none the less and still think that what you see in the mirror is AMAZING and believe you are a product of God's creation.

But you can be stardust if you want.

 

[oldbadger]

Again, I know that you want him to write what Mark already wrote. But you would be hard to find someone who doesn't believe that what the disciple/apostle John was just as impactful as what Mark, Matthew and Luke wrote.

I don't want John to write anything! I want to read his deposition, and it tells me that he had a quantity of valuable stories, anecdotes and pieces of information from which he wrote his gospel. It also tells me that he was no witness.
As mentioned earlier I think this is a thread to be because there is so much evidence to show this.

He didn't know about anything that he did apart from his very strange claims about laying on Jesus's breast, and being with Mother Mary at the base of the cross. By the way, I have a very good idea about the execution squad would have done to any peasant that approached too closely!

Who doesn't know "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

And exactly what does that prove?
I tell you again. Apostle John was not there.

And the term of being born-again.

I already posted things that did match the other gospels (because he was there)

As special as watching Jesus on that mountain, or during the sacking of Anna's Bazaar, or during the picketing of the Temple Court's?
We'll put it to an impartial membership, I think.

 

[oldbadger]

LOL... same evidence and different interpretations. This was the "shocking" view for me

But appreciate you none the less and still think that what you see in the mirror is AMAZING and believe you are a product of God's creation.

But you can be stardust if you want.

Both you and I are stardust, Ken.

 

[Kenny]

I don't want John to write anything! I want to read his deposition, and it tells me that he had a quantity of valuable stories, anecdotes and pieces of information from which he wrote his gospel. It also tells me that he was no witness.
As mentioned earlier I think this is a thread to be because there is so much evidence to show this.

He didn't know about anything that he did apart from his very strange claims about laying on Jesus's breast, and being with Mother Mary at the base of the cross. By the way, I have a very good idea about the execution squad would have done to any peasant that approached too closely!


And exactly what does that prove?
I tell you again. Apostle John was not there.


As special as watching Jesus on that mountain, or during the sacking of Anna's Bazaar, or during the picketing of the Temple Court's?
We'll put it to an impartial membership, I think.

Yes... you keep saying that, but does that mean you are right:

John 19:25-27
King James Version
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.


I say he was A very impactful deposition.

 

[Kenny]

Both you and I are stardust, Ken.

No... I am a product of the resurrection power of God and am made in His image and in His likeness. I am a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body -- the body which you could say is stardust since the earth is a star.

 

[oldbadger]

Again... you are talking about what people do and not what the Word of God says.

When God told my wife and I, "Sell all that is in your house and give it to missions" - we obeyed and sold everything in the house.

Politics is changing the goal post.

I'm a Deist, Ken!
Can't you get that?
You're ideas about what the word of God might be cannot make much difference to me. I'm more attracted to the Rubaiyat or Omar Kyamm to be honest.

I think you are not being logical here. Where do you think Mary lived at? And is it not also the home of Jesus (as the inheritor?)

Mary Jesus's mother? Nazareth, and please don't tell me that she popped over to Capernaum with Jesus after the wedding where he produced high % alcohol for everybody..... She lived in Nazareth. And please don't tell me that she had a house in Nazareth.

Do you think that God wants everyone to live in poverty?

My God is not involved in this, but Humanity should equalise and distribute wealth more evenly. People live in hopeless poverty on our streets, yours and mine....

Do you think (in Jewish understanding) that Jesus didn't believe in Deuteronomy 28:1-14 and didn't live with that understanding?

Oh Ken! What a mistake of yours!
You don't keep those commandments!

{28:3} Blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the city, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the field.
{28:4} Blessed [shall be] the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. {28:5} Blessed [shall be] thy basket and thy store. {28:6} Blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou comest in, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou goest out. {28:7} The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they
shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways. {28:8} The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. {28:9} The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

Have no idea what "HJ" or what you are trying to relay.

Historical Jesus, Kent. HJ.
I am an HJ student.,

 

[oldbadger]

Yes... you keep saying that, but does that mean you are right:

John 19:25-27
King James Version
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

I say he was A very impactful deposition.

Oh dear...... G-Mark denies John's claims, as well as common sense.
Wasn't Salome disciple John's Mum?

Mark {15:40} There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was
Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; {15:41} (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.

 

[Kenny]

Historical Jesus, Kent. HJ.
I am an HJ student.,

OH.... you must be younger than me with all those abbreviations

I'm a Deist, Ken!
Can't you get that?
You're ideas about what the word of God might be cannot make much difference to me. I'm more attracted to the Rubaiyat or Omar Kyamm to be honest.

Then why get so upset about John? I am a Christian and am a believer. I have no problem with your decision of being a Deist but that doesn't translate that just because you are not a believer you are right.

Mary Jesus's mother? Nazareth, and please don't tell me that she popped over to Capernaum with Jesus after the wedding where he produced high % alcohol for everybody..... She lived in Nazareth. And please don't tell me that she had a house in Nazareth.

Is this a goal post move? He was there! The wine issue, the first miracle of Jesus, is another issue. Another thread?

My God is not involved in this, but Humanity should equalise and distribute wealth more evenly. People live in hopeless poverty on our streets, yours and mine....

Ok... I think God is involved but man has the knack of messing it all up.

There is enough food thrown away to feed all the hungry people of this world. God provided and man throws it away. But, then again, you did mention that humanity hasn't distributed the excess food supply to address the poverty in our streets. (I know you are doing your part as am I)

Oh Ken! What a mistake of yours!
You don't keep those commandments!

{28:3} Blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the city, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the field.
{28:4} Blessed [shall be] the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. {28:5} Blessed [shall be] thy basket and thy store. {28:6} Blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou comest in, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou goest out. {28:7} The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they
shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways. {28:8} The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. {28:9} The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

Is this another goal post move?

I spoke about J E S U S, a Jewish person, not about me. Why did you change the subject?

So, let me ask you again, did Jesus live by these commandments? Did He believe these promises? And he still had a home.

 

[Kenny]

Oh dear...... G-Mark denies John's claims, as well as common sense.
Wasn't Salome disciple John's Mum?

Mark {15:40} There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was
Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; {15:41} (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.

Did you not read your quote? "and many other women"

Now... let's look at this logically as a deposition.

The only person registered as having being there was John with the women. Matthew and Mark were not there to make the deposition. It was impactful to John because he was there.

All Mark knew was that there were women but didn't know what happened there.

John was there an impactful moment.

Point, set, game.

 

[oldbadger]

I spoke about J E S U S, a Jewish person, not about me. Why did you change the subject?

So, let me ask you again, did Jesus live by these commandments? Did He believe these promises? And he still had a home.

Yes, Jesus obeyed the commands, the laws of Moses.

 

[oldbadger]

Did you not read your quote? "and many other women"

Now... let's look at this logically as a deposition.

The only person registered as having being there was John with the women. Matthew and Mark were not there to make the deposition. It was impactful to John because he was there.

All Mark knew was that there were women but didn't know what happened there.

John was there an impactful moment.

Point, set, game.

How do you know Mark was not there?