Choose to Believe?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No you still choose. You would be choosing not to die and not to burn yourself. But there are many people who have chosen to commit suicide. There are monks who have chosen to walk on hot coals. So whether you will admit it or not - it is still a choice.

You have made a category error, in order to force it to look as if I choose beliefs. But I did not say I could not choose to commit suicide by walking off a cliff -- of course I could. What I said was I could not choose to stop believing gravity. That I cannot do. And while I can choose to burn myself, I cannot choose to believe that a red stove burner is not hot and will not damage my skin.

And there is a little bit of physics to walking on hot coals, too. The amount of time the foot is in contact with the ground is not enough to induce a burn, combined with the fact that embers are not good conductors of heat

Please don't twist my meaning to suit yourself.

 

[night912]

I disagree. I can no more choose to believe something than I can choose not to. So, for example, it is impossible for me to start disbelieving gravity or other matters of physics (like the production of heat on my stove top, for instance), and to then act accordingly. Sorry, all the "choosing" in the world will not get me to step off the precipice, nor place my hand on the red burner on my kitchen range.

No you still choose. You would be choosing not to die

That has nothing to do with disbelieving in gravity.

and not to burn yourself.

But that has nothing to do with disbelieving that a red burner on a kitchen stove top will burn you.

But there are many people who have chosen to commit suicide. There are monks who have chosen to walk on hot coals.

None of those has to do with believe/belief.

So whether you will admit it or not - it is still a choice.

You didn't show how you're is able to choose what you believe.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

You have made a category error, in order to force it to look as if I choose beliefs. But I did not say I could not choose to commit suicide by walking off a cliff -- of course I could. What I said was I could not choose to stop believing gravity. That I cannot do. And while I can choose to burn myself, I cannot choose to believe that a red stove burner is not hot and will not damage my skin.

And there is a little bit of physics to walking on hot coals, too. The amount of time the foot is in contact with the ground is not enough to induce a burn, combined with the fact that embers are not good conductors of heat

Please don't twist my meaning to suit yourself.

Look you chose to believe in gravity to begin with. Based on the evidence you have seen.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

That has nothing to do with disbelieving in gravity.


But that has nothing to do with disbelieving that a red burner on a kitchen stove top will burn you.


None of those has to do with believe/belief.


You didn't show how you're is able to choose what you believe.

Look, everyone chooses what they believe and what they don't believe.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Look you chose to believe in gravity to begin with. Based on the evidence you have seen.

You have a pretty bizarre idea of what "chose" means, in that case. And it is a false idea.

A new study has found that infants as young as two months old have the basic knowledge of "intuitive physics."

"We believe that infants are born with expectations about the objects around them, even though that knowledge is a skill that's never been taught," said study author Kristy vanMarle of psychology at the University of Missouri. "As the child develops, this knowledge is refined and eventually leads to the abilities we use as adults," vanMarle was quoted as saying by LiveScience.

Read more at: 'Infants understand gravity with innate sense of physics'

 

[Subduction Zone]

Look you chose to believe in gravity to begin with. Based on the evidence you have seen.

No, belief in gravity is not a choice to a person that reasons rationally.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Look, everyone chooses what they believe and what they don't believe.

Only the irrational are guilty of that. You appear to be accusing others of shortcomings that you see in yourself.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have chosen to believe in God. That is why I think it is possible.

That's true, but you did not believe without any evidence. Isn't the Bible the evidence for you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Look, everyone chooses what they believe and what they don't believe.

We choose because we have free will to choose, but WHY we choose is another matter.
I think we choose to believe something because we are convinced it is true, just as we choose to disbelieve something because we are not convinced it is true.
Beliefs can change as new information comes in IF one is willing to look at new information.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Choosing to believe" is a misnomer. Belief simply happens when one is convinced a thing is true or not. One can act as though a thing is true, either to conditionally test it out or as a way of masking one's actual beliefs. But I wouldn't call that belief.

Perhaps choosing to believe is a misnomer, but one can choose to look at the evidence that supports a belief, and then if they are not convinced by that evidence they will not believe.

Whether a person will be held accountable for not believing is up to God because only God really knows why that person chose not to believe. That person might believe he or she knows but since much of what is in our minds resides in the subconscious mind we cannot know everything about ourselves, so we can fool ourselves into thinking we did not have the choice to believe when we really did have a choice. But since God is All-Knowing, God knows everything about us, so God knows if we had a choice or not.

God is closer to us than we are to our own selves. Baha'u'llah wrote "whereas the one true God knoweth all things, perceiveth all things, and comprehendeth all things, mortal man is prone to err, and is ignorant of the mysteries that lie enfolded within him….” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 186

Speaking as the Voice of God, Baha’u’llah wrote that we all have the capacity to believe in God, because otherwise we could not be held accountable.

“.... I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men. It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

“He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Look, everyone chooses what they believe and what they don't believe.

I don't "believe" in people who walk on hot coals. I know how it's done, I know those coals are not good conductors of heat, I know the heat the feet are exposed to isn't as much as what people think, I know there is generally a layer of ash between the coal and feet to help insulate the feet, and I know with a brisk stroll down a path of hot coals poses a minimal risk of severe burns or injury.
Gravity, however, there is no trickery in that one. And, again, no belief necessary. If I drop a bowling ball over my foot, I know the ball will crush my foot. I don't believe that, I just know it will happen based on what we know of (and have personally experienced) gravity and how it functions.
And on the issue of choice, I would say most probably put no effort into it in order to make a choice. Like myself, people in America are generally raised in a Christian family. I didn't chose that. I went along with what I was taught and raised with, as people normally do. There was really never a choice until I left it. And even then, it could be argued if it really was a choice or not. A continued existence of misery and yearning for death, or a life free of the ideological toxins that left me having suicidal thoughts? Self preservation is an instinct, after all. And that says nothing of the stress felt learning I had been lied to about a great many things by church leaders and literature.
So was it a choice? I'm not so sure, as it may have been the automated response of a shocked mind rejecting the source of misery.

 

[Unity of Mankind]

Is it possible to 'choose to believe' something?

I believe it is impossible not to choose what you believe. However, belief must be in the context of something. The something can be based on simple observations such as objects that fall from cliffs continue to fall until coming into contact with whatever is at the bottom of it.

However beliefs based on philosophy or religion is complex and not simple. Throw in for good measure one’s desire to believe certain things in this context what one comes up with is uncertain as to finding what is true from what is not true.

My personal tentative conclusion as I grew up in contemplating the immensity of what I could see in a clear night sky was that there must be an unknown deity of some sort that is responsible for it all. Thus I gravitated toward spiritual philosophies such as that of Socrates or what I could find through the medium of religion.

The only religion I had some familiarity with in the society I was born into was Christianity. However, I could never believe in it for many reasons not the least of which its impracticability in establishing peace among people but rather it’s opposite; war and conflict!

Not until I discovered the Baha’i Faith and its principles such as the oneness of religion as a process did I come to a belief in religion.

 

[night912]

Look, everyone chooses what they believe and what they don't believe.

And yet, you failed to demonstrate that. All you did was give examples of things that one can choose to do or not do, then passed it off as if you had addressed the beliefs, but in actuality, you didn't.

The belief in gravity was raised and how it effects the choice to not step off a precipice. Instead of addressing that particular belief, you went and talked about "choosing" to not die, which has nothing to do with the belief in gravity.

 

[night912]

I have chosen to believe in God. That is why I think it is possible.

What caused and/or made you believe in God? If it's true like what you said, that you merely chose to believe in God, then it must also be true about disbelieving.

With that said, without doing any kind of research, try to not believe in God today, then the next day believe in God. And I'm not talking about simply speaking the words, "I believe in God" and "I don't believe in God," but to actually accept them as true. Since you do truly believe in God, you should have an idea for the difference between truly believe in God and to not believe. Repeat this process for a week, then come back here and share your experience.

 

[1213]

What caused and/or made you believe in God? ...

I choose to believe, because I have seen this world and read the Bible. God is the best explanation for those. And I have no good reason not to believe so. But more than that, I want to be loyal (faithful) to God, because I think He is Good. I would want to do so, even if He would not exist.

I think believing in God’s existence is not really the important point. Bible tells that eternal lie is for righteous, which is why I think righteousness is the important matter. And that really is not matter of belief, but matter of right understanding.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Bible is mainly about what is good and right. And it is really about do you understand what is good and right and why it is so. If you don’t understand, it is not useful to believe in existence of God.

But could I choose to not believe. I think I could, if I would hate God. But, Bible tells God is love and I think I know love, which is why it would be about the same as denying world exists to say that love doesn’t exist.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

 

[1213]

That's true, but you did not believe without any evidence. Isn't the Bible the evidence for you?

Yes, I have reasons to believe. Bible is one of them. But, I could have basically done the same as atheists and believe it is not true. I think it is nowadays probably easier to choose not to believe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, I have reasons to believe. Bible is one of them. But, I could have basically done the same as atheists and believe it is not true. I think it is nowadays probably easier to choose not to believe.

The Bible is the claim, it is not the evidence. You have to ignore the many failings of the Bible to support your beliefs. In fact I am rather sure that you cannot honestly deal with the failings of the Bible. It fails scientifically, it fails based upon prophecy, it fails morally, the list goes on.

 

[night912]

I choose to believe, because I have seen this world and read the Bible. God is the best explanation for those. And I have no good reason not to believe so. But more than that, I want to be loyal (faithful) to God, because I think He is Good. I would want to do so, even if He would not exist.

So in other words, you did not choose your beliefs.

Bible is mainly about what is good and right. And it is really about do you understand what is good and right and why it is so. If you don’t understand, it is not useful to believe in existence of God.

I believe that murder is wrong, like in the case of the death penalty, and yet, you're saying that it's not useful for me to believe in the existence of God. Why is that? According to you, understanding what's right and why it's good, is the reason why it should be useful for me.

Explain to me why it's right to kill another person, lie and steal in one particular situation, but it's wrong to do the same in a different situation?

Explain why it's wrong to commit a global genocide of the vast majority of the Earth's population, or why it's wrong to punish a person because his ancestors/forefathers did something that was wrong, or why it's wrong for a human being to own another human being as property?

 

[night912]

But could I choose to not believe. I think I could, if I would hate God. But, Bible tells God is love and I think I know love, which is why it would be about the same as denying world exists to say that love doesn’t exist.

Hating God is not, not believing in the existence of that God. It's simply, hating the God that you believe exist. I've already addressed this.

So please share your experience with us about you choosing to not believe in the existence of God in the same manner as how you believe in the existence of God.

Also, without having the hate for that God, please go ahead and choose to believe that no God exist. Then come back and share your experience with us.

 

[1213]

...Also, without having the hate for that God, please go ahead and choose to believe that no God exist. Then come back and share your experience with us.

Sorry, I don’t want to do that. And I think your argument is like saying, “can you choose to murder people or not? if you choose not to murder, prove that you really can make the choice by murdering someone”. I think that is just ridiculous. And I don’t want to do stupid thing just to prove something for you. If you don’t believe, it is not a problem to me.