Truth: either God exists or He don't.

[Polymath257]

There is no evidence to support any of the above claims, as the courts refused to look at the evidence

They looked at what was offered and found that it wasn't even close to being enough to prove the case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don’t know your Genesis story so start wherever you want, just stating the obvious that matter doesn’t make itself from nothing so go for it.

You used the word "nothing". So let's avoid it.

Let's start after the formation of the Earth. That was about 4.55 billion years ago. Okay?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Holding the President accountable to the Congress is NOT a coup: it is upholding exactly what the Constitution says. Mueller found wrong doing, but could not charge Trump with a crime since he was in office: that was the duty of Congress (according to the Constitution). That the Senate republicans refused to convict because they are afraid of this guy only shows their cowardice.

Trump won the election in 2016 and the Democrats were doing everything they could to remove him even by false dossier and FISA warrants that were gotten by false information. That’s what a coup looks like and not accepting election results not what happened at the Capitol on Jan.6.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You used the word "nothing". So let's avoid it.

Let's start after the formation of the Earth. That was about 4.55 billion years ago. Okay?

Ok great keep going I’m curious what you believe and the scientific method of observation you use at that time to prove that to yourself.

 

[Polymath257]

What we did agree on is Science is fallible but God is infallible.

But human understanding of God is far worse than Science in its fallibility.

 

[Polymath257]

Scientists have no idea of what the "scientific method" is. If scientists don't have a clue what it is, how can anyone else believe that fairy tale

Actual observation trumps philosophy or religion every time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok great keep going I’m curious what you believe and the scientific method of observation you use at that time to prove that to yourself.

We can date the planets using radiometric dating. It is very reliable and creationists have no answer for it. Of course we knew that the Earth was at least hundreds of millions of years old before radiometric dating was invented.

By the way, you have mere belief. What we have from science is knowledge. It can be tested and confirmed. And even more important tested and falsified at times too. Theists tend to refuse to test their beliefs in their gods.

 

[Polymath257]

Now I’m asking you use your own intellect and sources to simply explain how all creation came into existence. Start in your Genesis, there was absolutely nothing, no air, gas, chemicals, molecules, ameba or any matter. How did we get here from absolutely nothing and how many years ago was that approximately?

But that *isn't* what it says in Genesis. Remember? Darkness was on the face of the deep. That deep (space or water, depending on interpretation) already existed. God already existed.

There was no time when there was 'absolutely nothing'. Whenever there was time, there was matter, energy, and space.

So, no, the universe didn't 'come from nothing'. Whenever there was time, which is something, the universe existed.

 

[Polymath257]

Trump won the election in 2016 and the Democrats were doing everything they could to remove him even by false dossier and FISA warrants that were gotten by false information. That’s what a coup looks like and not accepting election results not what happened at the Capitol on Jan.6.

Exactly backwards.

Congress did its duty to hold the President accountable for his actions *with powers granted in the Constitution*.

Yes, Trump won the election. But he abused the powers of his office after that. It is the job of Congress to hold him accountable for such abuses.

The rioters on Jan 6 attempted to disrupt a *Constitutionally required* counting of the electoral votes in order to overthrow the results of an election, duly certified in all states.

 

[ElishaElijah]

We can date the planets using radiometric dating. It is very reliable and creationists have no answer for it. Of course we knew that the Earth was at least hundreds of millions of years old before radiometric dating was invented.

Ok but no one was there to see or observe these things until what date? When were these things observed? I see you are using science which is fine with me but where are the scientist who saw life take place? Ok so you are dating things that already exist, I’m asking for the beginning and origin of life, surely there is more

 

[Audie]

Exactly backwards.

Congress did its duty to hold the President accountable for his actions *with powers granted in the Constitution*.

Yes, Trump won the election. But he abused the powers of his office after that. It is the job of Congress to hold him accountable for such abuses.

The rioters on Jan 6 attempted to disrupt a *Constitutionally required* counting of the electoral votes in order to overthrow the results of an election, duly certified in all states.

Fake dossier and "now the impeachment begins " is real enough.
There's a shortage of innocent parties
and concern for the nation as a whole.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok but no one was there to see or observe these things until what date? When were these things observed? I see you are using science which is fine with me but where are the scientist who saw life take place? Ok so you are dating things that already exist, I’m asking for the beginning and origin of life, surely there is more

It was not all known at once. Early geologists were the first to realize that the Earth was very old. This predates radiometric dating. For example well sorted shale is made from very fine clay. It cannot be deposited rapidly. Some strata even has annual deposit layers. For example example the Green River Formation has about six million easily observable annual layers. Limestone tends to be made of bioclastic material. Old life glued together. That can only accumulate very slowly. I am not going to be able to give all of the endless evidence in just a few posts.

 

[Audie]

Actual observation trumps philosophy or religion every time.

Thinking about it led to belief in Hyperborea
om the part of geographer of the day.

A lot of lives were lost in the ice, trying to
break through to the warm polar ocean.

Observation definitely get more accurate results than philosophical musings and wishful thinking.

 

[ElishaElijah]

But that *isn't* what it says in Genesis. Remember? Darkness was on the face of the deep. That deep (space or water, depending on interpretation) already existed. God already existed.

There was no time when there was 'absolutely nothing'. Whenever there was time, there was matter, energy, and space.

So, no, the universe didn't 'come from nothing'. Whenever there was time, which is something, the universe existed.

I didn’t say that it did come from nothing, God is eternal with no beginning or end, He has life in Himself and is the Creator.
I’m trying to understand the logic of the intellectual person who is using scientific approach who seems to reject that their is a God. Or at least clear up some things

 

[Subduction Zone]

@ElishaElijah , why do you think that the date of when radiometric dating was invented has any bearing on the discussion?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn’t say that it did come from nothing, God is eternal with no beginning or end, He has life in Himself and is the Creator.
I’m trying to understand the logic of the intellectual person who is using scientific approach who seems to reject that their is a God. Or at least clear up some things

One cannot "reject" that what does not exist. Until you prove your god claims you should not accuse anyone of rejecting god.

 

[Audie]

I don't want to give him a response that could be called a strawman. I objected to his undefined "nothing". He may be trying to argue " Scientists think that the universe came from nothing". That is not the case which is why I asked for clarification.

Ok, I take it back, since he continues to to put
his infallibility out there.

 

[Audie]

One cannot "reject" that what does not exist. Until you prove your god claims you should not accuse anyone of rejecting god.

FTM, plenty of intellectual people
believe in God. Its only the regressive
anti intellectual / uneducated who
are able to believe a lot of obvious nonsense
is necessary to faith. Let alone pretend it
is a virtue.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It was not all known at once. Early geologists were the first to realize that the Earth was very old. This predates radiometric dating. For example well sorted shale is made from very fine clay. It cannot be deposited rapidly. Some strata even has annual deposit layers. For example example the Green River Formation has about six million easily observable annual layers. Limestone tends to be made of bioclastic material. Old life glued together. That can only accumulate very slowly. I am not going to be able to give all of the endless evidence in just a few posts.

Really not looking for in depth study, but 4 billion years ago, where is the scientist that can prove this by observation. Who was there when life happens? It’s easy to use experiments to date things that are already here but what about the origin of life, that’s a lot different.

 

[ElishaElijah]

FTM, plenty of intellectual people
believe in God. Its only the regressive
anti intellectual / uneducated who
are able to believe a lot of obvious nonsense
is necessary to faith. Let alone pretend it
is a virtue.

Ok great you believe in God that’s all I wanted to know, thanks